One handed swords made useless by combat update?

The combat update imo was the single most anticipated update for me and it was well worth the wait.

Having said that I found myself not using one handed swords.
2 handers have more melee range and damage and the swing speed is negligible when you do knockback. Plus those oh so sweet specials.

Any area that makes use of short swords could be replaced with guns and you'd have a range advantage.

Most of this game seems to favor guns anyways, which was why 2 hand melee weapons were given specials.
Perhaps I'm just using them wrong, but that's just my experience.

Thoughts?

 

Never really used 1handed weapons even before the update.

 

With a shield, I find them to be better than 2h. I rarely take damage unless the unwanted touch damage mechanic gets me. Shields and 1h weapons are overpowered.

 

I've been finding 1h Thrown Weapon + Shield to be a really strong combination, and it's been feeling like swords and daggers are a little underpowered compared to how good they were before. Daggers at least have a high attack speed to increase the chance of applying a status effect, but I think the 1h swords should get either a slight upgrade in terms of damage or higher status chance to make them a more appealing option.

 

I've always done the 2H Sword. Whack, Whack, dead. It is usually dead before it can hit me, and even if not, I usually walk around with 100+ bandaids in my first slot ready to pop anytime. Then, later, I swap em out for medkits or I go farm said medkits somewhere I can find some NPCs that'll drop em.

Then when I get the pixel printer, I convert the bandaids to nanowraps. 100+ Nanowraps and you can live through anything, no shield needed. Why gimp your damage output when you can nanowrap yourself every few seconds and kill stuff much faster?

I don't use axes or hammers because they're too slow. Yeah they do more damage, but 2h swords are much faster and do almost as good damage and have rather nice range.

 

this seems to have been mentioned already but, shields can be awesome.

 

I find the sword/shield combo pretty effective for dealing with humanoid mobs what got guns. Different tools for differnet jobs.

(And the "run in and smash with hammer without fear" is kind of one of the things contact damage was implemented to discourage. It was too easy, too high-reward-low-risk. I mean, you can still try it, but now you have to time it better or take your lumps.)

 

But yet it (implementing contact damage) still failed, even if it is slightly more annoying, lol.

And it will continue to fail until they do a bit of a better balance and actually make up their mind how they want combat to work in SB.

 

I disagree. I don't think it's complete, because it still needs balancing and tweaking because it's new and that's how game development works nothing comes out of it fully-formed and perfect and they'll be tweaking it all the time and people seem to not get that, but I don't think it's failed. I think it's one step of many to getting combat rounded out.

 

Let me put it this way.

You said that Contact Damage (CD) is to discourage people from "running in and smash with hammer without fear".

What I'm saying is that CD did nothing of the sort; I just use more bandaids, but then it ain't like bandaids are hard to get in the first place, lol. I think the NPCs in the Erchius Mine are the only things you can't really rush... and guys with machineguns.

Otherwise, 2H sword swipe swipe all the way. If I get hit? Oh well, bandaid. Get hit faster than bandaids can cure? I'll run away for a few seconds and then turn around and whack em when I heal up enough.

CD did not discourage me from rushing in and soaking damage, therefore it kinda failed at its mission, if that's what it's mission was. It hasn't discouraged me at all from running in with hammer (or, in my case, 2H sword). That, and most mobs are not that hard to dodge consistently anyways.

 

It's a discouragement because it comes at a cost, that cost being taking damage and spending healing items if you choose to ignore it or not work on your timing to avoid the damage and instead get into sprite-overlap range.

Whether or not you find that cost acceptable is, well, up to you and your playstyle. After all, it is a game based around openness and options.

But again, it's still a system that requires number tweaking and adjustments that will take time, and will be worked on up through 1.0 and beyond. And as stated earlier, it's pretty clear they don't want combat with everything you encounter to be a life-or-death duel anyway. It's more a slow wearing down and keeping you aware of your health, keeping you from getting careless and encouraging smarter combat.

 

I didn't really use them before, and I suspect I probably won't now.

 

It's also cheap in some situations too, especially with the MANY enemies that have Charge, especially when you combine this and the backpedal mechanic. There are enemies that just charge charge charge charge and you really can't get away from the stupid thing, and using a 2H weapon is the only way to kill it and kill it fast. Trying to be defensive is only going to get you hit MORE.

They really need a cooldown on the mobs' Charge attack, IMO. Sometimes they can be almost impossible to get away from. One of the many reasons I hate contact damage.

Yeah, that's why any mob that's appropriate for your equipment can kill you in <6 seconds flat, thanks to the fact you die in about 5-6 hits and the fact there's almost zero I-Frame immunity. If you get an enemy that just won't get off you and you're stuck in terrain or in a corner or something... BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAM dead.

That's the cheapest thing ever, and it causes nothing but player infuriation when something like that happens that there was nothing to really be done about it. One of the reasons why I hate that "dead zone" that if something is too close, I can't hit the stupid thing, because the enemy wants to jump on me and hump me all the time.

It just makes combat feel more clunky and less responsive.

Maybe if we had a reasonable I-Frame immunity (like any other game that has contact damage), that would be a big step towards making Contact Damage a bit more OK and acceptable.

 

But AGAIN, it's still a system that requires number tweaking and adjustments that will take time, and will be worked on up through 1.0 and beyond.

 

But AGAIN they shouldn't half-bake things and add the horse before the cart.

If you want to bake a cake, you don't add the batter first, do you? No, you make the egg/butter/etc mixture and get that thoroughly mixed and THEN you blend in the batter.

If you're building a house, you don't make the roof first, do you? No, you lay the foundation and start on the walls next.

Contact Damage does not belong in a game that does not have the other things to support it (like I-Frame Immunity and the ability to properly dodge stuff). Otherwise it is an annoyance and people will hate it (as we're seeing now).

People might not hate it if we had waited until the game could properly support it, ne?

 

Actually, I like contact damage. It makes a lot more sense. I understand your corner frustration thing, but if they can hit you, you can hit them back.

I think this is a great idea. Different weapon types should have different rewards. Sure, you can use shields with one-handed weapons, but I'd like to see something interesting about the one handed weapon types like daggers by themselves.

 

Having finally obtained a shield this update, I can say that shields make 1 handed weapons very effective.
Too effective almost.

I think the reason why shields are so powerful is because you have the ability to attack and defend at the same time, with no repercussions.
Like you could hold out a shield and still whack people with your sword without being exposed.

I think a decent solution (that doesn't involve outright nerfing shields) would be to make it so you either attack or defend.
IE: You either raise your shield or you strike with your sword. Certain weapon types would be exempt (one handed spears, if they ever make it a weapon type, and one handed guns) and would allow you to attack from behind your shield.

It's not quite the "timing based parry" guard system that some people would want, but this would allow people to master shield timings so that they spend less time holding their shields up and more time trying to attack.

 

MMM I just like big swords must have been all that ff7 when i was young

 

Well, it helps that 2H swords have an arc swing that hits a little above and in front, to slightly below and in front, especially if you crouch when swinging. You can even sometimes hit something on the other side of a bit of terrain that's directly in front of you, and it has far more range than most weapons (other than spears).

It puts out far more damage than any 1H weapon and it is just a good all-purpose weapon that does well in all fields, though one could argue it's the master of none. It's good enough, though, that it doesn't suffer too heavily from Jack of All Trades syndrome.

IMO, 2nd best weapon is the spear, but it requires precision to use and a missed stab is costly.