Not a fan of the Tier System

The tier system is really not enjoyable. It makes a game that is supposed to be a huge random open world where you can do anything, feel very limited all the time. If it is a sandbox game on a scale like this one, there should not be linear progression similar to level based games, You get max stuff for your tier, fight the boss, then start all over again. This is not how a game like this should be. There needs to be instead of spawning a boss to pass the tier, there needs to be random encounters. It makes it a lot more surprising and fun. Another thing with tier's are the guns. They game advertises a lot about the randomly generated guns, but i was very let down when i had to wait until a high tier to even be able to find one! If there are fun things like this, you need to be able to use/do them from the start, not grind for resources just to beat a boss and then continue to grind again.

 

The tiers are temporary right now and will be removed soon™.

 

They've been doing a lot of work behind the scenes (not yet released to the Stable version) but from what they've shown, there will be an Outpost planet with vendors and NPCs, so hopefully there is a gun vendor there for those of us who enjoy ranged combat and don't want to wait until the later part of the game.

Also, the current tier system is going to be tossed out, in a sense. I think that each tier will still require a boss battle to unlock the next tier, but there will be different ways to get to that boss fight (fighting, exploring, looting, landlording, farming). One of their specific goals is to prevent that feel of grinding to reach the boss. They want to make sure players feel like they're doing what they enjoy, and doing that stuff will naturally get them to the boss part, without making them feel like they're doing it too much.

They're also looking to make players explore deeper into planets (not just skim the surface and move on), and making underground enemies harder, so there's a feel of mini-progression before you go into the boss battle. Also stuff to make exploring underground more rewarding (underground dungeons!) and less, uh, a waste of time.

You should check out the News section, and just read through some of the posts there (imo, only read the first post or the linked blog post), and see if the things there are what you want to see.

If they are, awesome! If not, then give your feedback and say what you would like to see.

 

Oh really? I must have missed a post on that. Well that sounds great then!

This also sounds great! Because i always felt like there was no point in ever going underground, which kind of made it dull. So i would have to force myself to dig deep

 

Yeah... I created all of my towns (home bases) in the lava of planet cores, simply because there was no reason to do so. There was no incentive to go deep, no incentive to mine magmarock instead of sand or surface dirt/stone (easier to mine than core dirt/stone), and no real reason why placing/mining blocks removes the lava.

In that way, I'm still as immature as when I was in middle school, doing things simply because someone told me to not do that =P

 

I can't speak for mining to remove lava, but as for placing blocks... Well, the tool's not called a matter manipulator for no reason. I'm letting it slide in this game.

 

I'm not sure if that is entirely accurate...

The sectors are going away and not the tiers. In fact, Tiy just made a post on the main page yesterday explaining Tier 2, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong...

 

The way they described "tiers" working in the final game would be based on natural progression. For example, "Tier 1" would be the starting planet, as you'd be pretty stranded until your ship is in working condition. After that, there'd be certain content available on planets with an inhospitable atmosphere, which you can't truly access until you build a breathing device of some kind. These tiers would result from natural progression through the game, yet all planets will be available to explore (although survival or good footing might not be guaranteed).

Also, there will be three sectors in the final build. There will be the normal sector (for main survival gameplay), Sector X (for PvP), and a Creative Mode sector (for building without limits).

 

Yes, but even those 'natural progression' tiers are a hindrance to open sandbox play... which is what the OP, I think, meant.

 

Ideal open world sandboxes aren't very ideal, though. If you can do everything right away, with nothing holding you back, to me, this gets old pretty quick. Part of the reason I play the games I do is because it takes effort and investment (time, strategy, etc). Because of that investment, I feel more rewarded when things work out.

For example, I really enjoyed playing CS, because it took a lot of time playing with friends (enjoying that time) and then I was actually decent at it. Back when DooM was a thing, I sucked at it so badly that I only played it when I could use cheats, but then I never felt like I enjoyed it. There was no learning about what guns to use when, or how to kite, or anything like that.

I think the goal that CF has with the tiers is to introduce some limitations on the truly-open-world idea that cause more player investment, and hopefully increase player enjoyment.

 

Checked recent unstable nightly? I did not. But watched a vid on this... I am also not a fan, specially not on the "gather ore to repair thrusters" stuff... its grindy... and not the fun way. Other 2d sandbox like games offer grinding in a less obvious way by adding worthy loot, interesting hostiles and actually a more "organic" progress which feels more natural. What was suggested a few months ago that you need to craft an oxygen tank to beam down on a moon. Sure its reasonable. But in a sandbox game you should be able to do that without equipment, but suffer from ailments (suffocation and decompression) when doing so. Same for other "keyblocked" planets, they have to feel organic and I am simply not buying that you need a certain type of rock for XYZ.

 

I've always found it odd that the ship doesn't have some kind of emergency spacesuit considering how advanced it is. I mean it could be a ratty old thing that only last for ten or so minutes, but it's just so odd how things like that are simply missing and with seemingly no word on if anything like that will be implemented.

 

Me neither, but I heard this system is a placeholder
I'm curious to see what kind of progression system they can come up with

 

Although acording to Tiy's recent post, Tiers might still be in effect; it'll just be more quest-based, instead of boss/grind based.

 

I guess the question is, will we have to unlock tiers still? Or will we be able to craft items as long as we have the resources for it?

 

I personally don't mind the tier system. I just did everything I could in one tier before I started thinking about the next tier. It's only restrictive if you think about it like a path to follow, instead of a suggestion

 

Well, I think that the real question is that: is unlocking tiers that much different from "complete this quest so that you can craft something that will get you past this blockade, and allow you entry into planet types that you couldn't get on before"?

 

What I'm getting at is more about crafting and what Tiy has stated on how we'll be able to play the game in multiple ways, will I still be able to progress as a farmer? As a crafter? Or will I still have to fight a boss in order to do something as simple as making the next set of armor/weapon/tool?

 

It sounded like bosses were hard gates between the tiers, however I don't believe there has been any new statements since the original one was made (and it was very early on, after the Stable updates stopped). It's very possible they have changed their stance on that, but I'm not sure.

I think it would make a pretty good thread on its own, and should be a worthy semi-tangent for this one.

Since much of Starbound revolves around armor and weapons and thus combat, is it fair to say everyone needs to have combat readiness? Or, would there be ways to defeat the bosses using indirect methods?

For example, a landlord could hire a group of bodyguards that defeat the boss while he watches from a spectator booth.
Maybe an explorer could search to find an old lamp, and use the Genie as a summon to defeat the boss.
Or, a farmer could send such a large shipment of delectable food (perhaps with poison in it) that appeases the boss, who rewards the homage with the progression item? (quest-based interaction with the boss, instead of combat only)

I think it would be really neat if there were other ways to advance beyond tier gates, if they are hard gates.

 

Ah. I see. I guess with quests, you won't have to kill a boss to progress; just farm until you got it.