Nightly question about food...

hear is a idea i found i cant rember who said it i will tell you wen i out but here the idea is, it wont make up for some stuff but waht if we had another inventory
slot thing for food then it might not be as bad of course it would still be annoying to sell butt it would free up inventory so there is that, or if they dont do that you
could do waht Garatgh Deloi said
Examples: Should i bring this much food or this much food when i go spellunking? Bringing this much will have me set on food but limit the amount of loot i can bring back. Bringing this much will risk me starving but il get alot more loot. Etc.

It also has the added bonus of makeing higher quality food more attractive (if you only have a few spots you might as well bring better food alternatives).


also like Xylia said it should be kept out of casual food not stacking that is but these are just my suggestions if you dont like then that is fine if you do same.also sorry for my spelling

 

or maybe make it so that foods will only stack inside a refrigerator, and not have a spoil timer. as soon as you take it out, it starts to decay, but as long as it's in there, it's good, doesn't have a timer, and stacks with other instances of the same.

and along with that, make any container able to become a refrigerator. add a power in wire attachment and some form of power generation. so when a container is connected to power, it refrigerates. when it's not, it's business as usual. or maybe just a placeable refrigeration unit that you can connect to any container by the same means.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to start an argument with you or anything but most people agree pixels are far too easy to come by and generally seen as worthless endgame because of it. Vehicles weren't meant to be something you obtain right away after your first planet, it is something you save up for and earn. If you want an easier start than what the devs intended then that is fair, it is a sandbox game afterall. If nothing else if the devs don't increase the price of food items (which seem fair if they can rot now) then I'm sure a mod will do it for them. I wouldn't call the game broken though just because your play style ask for less mining and more starting gear. Each to their own but likewise some people actually like to work for their stuff and that is fine too.

 

you could also always throw on admin mode and spawn yourself some pixels. it's cheaty, but less likely to cause a conflict with another mod the user might have installed and you don't have to search through the mod page to find what you're after and install it. assuming you're playing single player and not on a server.

 

Yea il admit that it rathers nerf's the viability of making pixels from farming even for players that do not play survival. But in my humble opinion it was a tad to easy as it was.

Hopefully we can earn a acceptable amount of money from farming (in the new system) if we combine it with cooking (Makeing very high quality and expensive meals that you the sell instead of making big fields like now).

But thats just theory crafting, we shall have to see once the changes are live and we get to play around with them for a while. I think the new system could work fine even for money making if they spend enough time balancing it (might need a tad of after release rebalancing as well).

 

lol. CFG must be like "omg, wtf" when they read this. First, people are saying that pixels are too abundant. then, when they nerf things that allow people to make large amounts of pixels pretty easily, people want more pixels for stuff. heh. i understand that these people are probably two seperate and distinct groups of people, but it's still a bit humorous. Anyway, don't forget about the other stuff coming in 1.0. perhaps the bounties and quests and whatnot will be lucrative enough that we won't have to be spacefarmers or spaceminers to earn our monies.

 

It's a lot like the Blizzard Epidemic.

When you have a problem, Blizzard (the devs of Warcraft) tend to over-react, and use a huge sledgehammer to smash the problem into itty bits when a tap with a jeweler's mallet would have sufficed just fine.

Blizzard does this all the freaking time, when 100 of something is too much, they think the obvious solution must be 10 instead of something reasonable like 50.

So yeah, Koala Ore Refining was ridiculous. But then CF decided to hit it with a sledgehammer instead of giving it a tap with a jeweler's mallet and now ore refining is basically useless because you don't get anywhere near enough pixels to make it actually worth it.

So, instead, we decided to start farming things like reef pods and that other underwater fruit because they decided to make it so we have to manually water plants every time it reaches a new growth stage. AND they made the pixel amounts so small, that you had to farm these things by the hundreds to get any good pixel inflow.

Well, now you can't stack them, which means your profits go right out the window and we're back to Square 1, scratching our heads wondering how we can possibly make money.

Here's some suggestions I'd have for CF:

1). Tweak weapon/armor sell prices. C'mon, I go to a Volcanic Planet and find what is basically a weapon made out of Impervium (or very close to it), haul it back to the Outpost and I'm offered... 40 pixels for it? Are you kidding me? Give me 400-800 and maybe we'll talk about that sale.

2). Make food more worth it to sell. Most foods are worth 40 pixels or less. I'd bump em by 3x-5x to be honest.

3). Increase Ore Refining. Yeah, okay, Koala was a bit too ridiculous... but instead of Ridiculously Awesome, we now have Ridiculously Sucking. How about trying a value halfway between Koala and Giraffe?

4). Improve some basic pixel printing recipes (blocks, mainly). 1 steel block for 50 pixels is too ridiculous. How about 10 for 50? That sounds more reasonable. That way, you don't need 10,000+ pixels to make one small room.

 

well stated like i mentioned earlier, they could make both farming for pixels and mining for pixels obsolete with bounties and quests and whatnot coming in 1.0. i dunno what the rewards for that will be like.

 

Well, I for one am extremely disinterested in every food item I pick up cluttering up my inventory space, especially while on casual mode.

You call it an interesting survival feature, I call it a nuisance that should have never been added, especially with the existence of gamemodes where food consumption is nowhere as high. I was always a fan of vanilla play, but when I'm starting to feel the need to mod away unwanted features it's not a good thing in my eyes.

 

Theres no such thing as gamemodes in starbound (depending on your definition). Any char on any difficulty can play with any other char on the same server/world and theres also no differences between a singeplayer world and a multiplayer world (the one hosting uses his/her singleplayer world as the server world).

So having things in the world behave differently depending on difficulty (or/and singleplayer & multiplayer) isen't realy a option with the current system. It would likely require a massive rework were difficulty is tied to a world instead of a char (and that in turn would require a rework of the whole world system currently inplace).

 

That's why changes that force changes on other difficulty modes are bad deals.

Casuals shouldn't lose out just because of people playing Survival. And besides, there's a point and time where it stops being "realistic" and starts being "annoying". I mean, what's next, should we have a bathroom meter and force your character to go to the bathroom every 5 minutes to simulate that particular need? Maybe we need a sleep meter, to force your character to sleep periodically, because hey... what's the best way to play the game, other than watching your character do absolutely nothing?

Face it, a game like Starbound is not designed well as a Survival game. You want Survival, go play a game actually designed to BE a Survival Game. There's a TON of them out there on Steam, anything from Don't Starve to the million Zombie Survival Horror games out there. And I'm sure there's sci-fi survival games out there too.

They're trying to do the same thing that people "yell" at "endgamists" for: trying to add something to a sandbox that doesn't belong in a sandbox. "Stat and Loot-based Progression don't belong in a sandbox!" they say. Well, I say, Survival doesn't belong either, because you run into problems when you try to implement it.

Even if they fixed pixel making methods, we still have the "problem" that you're removing a chunk of content for Casuals (the entire farming mechanic) because it will now be too much of a hassle for too little return, since the items don't stack and have limited duration, it will not be worth the effort to farm anymore for Casuals. So there goes a large chunk o' content out of the game. Yay. That's what we need, to remove content. Sure, why not?

 

My point is, any change to the world will change it for any difficulty.

Casual will lose out on stuff becuse of survival, survival will lose out on stuff becuase of casual.

And saying "its not a real survival game" is irrelevant becuse survival features has been requested from day one and requested over and over again when they were temporarily removed. Its what a lot of people want even if its also what a lot of other people do not want.

Thats just the way worlds work in starbound right now and personaly i would prefear to avoid a 1 year rework of the system (might be a tad exaggerated for effect).

 

See, I'm fine with hunger mechanics, I'm fine with environmental protection packs and the requirement to change them depending on the planet visited. Nothing wrong about survival mechanics like that being added. Just don't remove the ability to stack from items easily collected on a massive scale while doing something as simple as exploring planet's surface - let alone actually collecting crops.

Can't implement food rotting sensibly? Then don't implement food rotting. Removing a vital, existing feature that is item stacking and making inventory handling a pain just for the sake of a new obsolete feature is just bad.

 

Any change might affect all difficulties, but we're talking about a change that removes an entire aspect of the game for a difficulty setting by making it so worthless that there's no point in doing it whatsoever.

This is going to make farming 100% worthless for casuals. At the very least, casuals did farming if at least to sell the items for cash. Unless you grossly inflate the prices, it still won't be worth it even if you did something like increasing manufactured food because again, time vs reward. It once took me a few minutes to visit my ocean farm, harvest my goods, and sell to get 3k-5k pixels.

But now, after this change, if I need to harvest these plants, 1 item per inventory slot, then harvest those plans, 1 item per inventory slot, then go to my cooking bench, and make stuff (probably need to buy ingredients off the chef because of how complicated some recipes are) and THEN finally make a few hundred pixels off the result... that's not even worth it.

And I REALLY don't understand this huge hoo-ha over trying to add Survival to a Sandbox game. It's silly, because it just isn't designed very well for that. Especially when we are now adding item durations onto items. Probably the worst idea I've ever heard of yet coming from the Survival camp. Yeah, okay, maybe having hundreds of food on you invalidated the Hunger Meter, but ever stop to think that a Hunger System tends to be one of the worst things in a sandbox game ever? That stuff works in Don't Starve, because the game is DESIGNED around it. Starbound isn't. That's why the Hunger System felt like this needless hassle tacked ontop for the sake of "LOLREALISM". Realism... in a game with FTL ships and teleporters? ya, right, okay.

 

Well, see, the argument is... "without food rotting, hunger is impossible to do well" and I kinda get what they mean, but food rotting just breaks the inventory system altogether, for ALL difficulty settings. There has surely got to be something to satisfy the Survival Crowd that doesn't involve breaking the inventory system...

 

As i see it the only option for the "nay" camp (dosen't mean that as a insult, just wasen't sure what to call those with the issue discussed in this thread) would be to suggest a alternative to the devs that woulden't make hunger a meaningless egg timer mechanic put still make farming work in a way they like. Since a meaningful hunger mechanic has been a requested feature non stop since they removed it (it wont be going anywhere).

Like for example being able to harvest and stack crops but being unable to eat them without processing them further (just off the top of my head, i haven't thought it through).

And do not bother saying "Isen't that the devs job?" becuse i doubt they will spend the time reworking everything unless its something 80-90% of the community has a seizure over.

 

They don't need to rework everything. All it takes is removing food rotting and make it stack again and most problems are gone. And if you want a challenge regarding hunger, then just decide on your own accord to limit how much food you carry on your person. Hunger being an "egg timer mechanic" is a small issue, compared to an inventory clogged up by dozens of pearl peas, raw steaks or wheat that I can casually collect while walking on the starting planet's surface.

 

I really don't understand how Food Rotting + Hunger even makes for a "Good" Survival mechanic in the first place. It's basically a dungeon timer. Let's say your food lasts 15 minutes and you can go for 5 minutes without eating.

Well, that gives you what, 20-30 minutes of spelunking before you gotta get back to your fridge? Or, you know, carry a treasure chest around on you so you can max out on your time available out there (unless you use Permadeath), drop chest on the ground, dump all of your stuff in the chest, and then die on purpose, rinse repeat.

Or even if you don't do that, you can just keep using elevators, flags, and teleporters to eventually make your way down into the ore mine and mine your ore out doing that.

My point here, is that there's enough ways around this system to where it really isn't a defining mechanic of the game, and I really don't understand why people like it so much when there's so many ways around it and at the end of the day, all it really does is add a Timer to your spelunking. You could accomplish the same by saying "Return to your base in 20 minutes or you die." and get rid of Hunger and Food altogether, and you'd have virtually the same effect.

 

That's another good point... I don't want to have to stop every 30 seconds to drop/destroy unwanted food items that won't stack because of this change.

Dude, that would be SO annoying. You're fighting an enemy and you swing your sword, kill the enemy and it drops a raw meat. Then you step up to a chest, and find a weapon, some bandages, a few copper ores and a pearlpea. Now you gotta drop the food because it will fill your inventory up fast (since you're not interested in said food in Casual now).

I see this as being a HUGE annoying hassle.

 

No, "hunger being a egg timer" isen't a small issue for most people that want such a feature. Its the reason they removed it at first and its something that has been requested for a return and improvement since day one.

On the other hand, from my perspective a limited inventory is a complete nonissue, just empty it from time to time at your base. To be honest i think the current inventory is way to big, id rather have a smaller one where you have to make choices instead of a big one you just cram everything into.

Its all about perspective. You may think that inventory is the bigger issue, others wont.

A system that forces you to manage food is (in my humble opinion) a good survival mechanic. Where you have to choose to bring x amount or y amount and the repercussions you face becuse of that.

Did you bring to much? Well to bad, less loot for you (or multiple trips). To little? To bad, you start starving and suffer negative debuffs (that you might judge you can live with depending on your playstyle etc).

It off course also has the added bonus of making higher quality food more attractive since you have limited space for food.

The solutions around it "elevators, flags, teleporters, etc" requires a lot of investment both in time and resources, if you want to choose to go that route then thats fine but most people wont.