My Dissapointments With Starbound

I'm so glad people are actually agreeing with this. I know that when people first made criticisms when the game came out, you might as well have just stuck your head under the guillotine. Also, something I've felt but never mentioned is that because of how randomly generated the game is, a lot of the content feels incredibly stale. Nothing really has any life to it, and it bothers me to no end, which is why I actually haven't played since before the last update. I like the game, but like others have said, it became boring very quick.

 

People say "oh this is beta, the game is not complete stop whining." Look, you don't build stuff you know you are going to scrap later. You start from the foundation and build on top of it. If the foundation is bad, you want to fix it asap before you pile on too much. So it is for the best that we keep posting how we feel the game is looking at the moment, rather than just being "patient". Explain just how is being patient going to improve anything? You are literally doing nothing but waiting, while the people working are continuing down the road without the feedback that they might need.

 

To be completely fair, you don't need to go to Sovngaurde to say, explore the entire right side of the map. You just need to in order to further the main quest. I'd refer to what Dragonbrad said, which would describe that pretty well.

In Skyrim, I don't think you even need to go to Riverwood and get the main quest, I'm pretty sure you can just run off and do whatever you want for a good few hundred hours.
Not to say that Skyrim's particularly comparable to Starbound, but your case in point isn't the best example.

 

Every other time I've seen posts like this, even as polite as yours is, the OP was attacked brutally for expressing his opinions. I'm so happy to see such a well thought-out post receive so much positive feedback. I REALLY hope the devs read this thread.

This is untrue. Most works in gaming get scrapped and replaced before you get your final product. Many elements in Starbound now are reworks of previous assets or functions. Second time around is almost always better.

It's also important to realize that something does not have to have a practical and completely useful function in order to be a good addition to a game. Things can be added for less practical means, things to add aesthetic. NPCs having more life added to them is not practical in terms of player use, but it's still something that would help Starbound seem more complex and deeper than it currently is.

 

I completely agree with this, for the developers' sake. If it takes a lot of work to even entirely scrap a lot of the current work in order to make the game a lot funner, if it's what changes a decent game to a good game it's entirely worth it. A lot better to have to put intense amounts of work into a good game than to put just a lot of work into an alright game. It's also dangerous to refrain from giving criticism about parts of the game that aren't complete just because of the beta, because potentially the completed state could be even worse. The developers aren't entitled to add every asinine thought that crosses the forums, but the opinions of the player matter.
For example, I currently feel that OP's third point, isolation, is an extremely valid point. As it stands, even settlements give me an overwhelming feeling of loneliness, and while I'm certain that the developers are going to add villager quests and the like which give a strong implication of more NPC personality, it's still worth expressing my opinion. If others agree with me, the opinion may stand out to the developers so that they can make sure and focus on that, instead of thinking people are mostly satisfied with NPCs as it is.
Obviously, you can't complain that saplings are still called <todo> in the inventory, because they're still working on that. But if you think saplings should work a certain way differently, it's worth mentioning.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with his opinion and everything but it's fallacious to go around saying that it isn't a sandbox game because you can't get from the first infinitely generated sector to the next without beating a boss. Someone brought up what the definition was earlier and near the end of the post it stated that some sandbox games have a few limitations, such as limiting access to a certain area until a goal is completed. I only brought this up because Starbound is what it has claimed to be so calling them liars about it is a misplaced accusation.

 

The game is a lot like Terraria in how the blocks act, and the trees. I have seen a variety in that with a jungle planet, and to an extent a forest, I ran into a "vine tree". That's the only thing I could call it, when I chopped it down, it dropped nothing but plant fiber and the sapling for it so I could grow my own. They do grow like trees, because it's a tree. I mean, how many ways can a tree grow? That's not a dig at you, mind you.

However, I chopped down a metal looking tree, but only got wood. I was expecting some type of metal wood or something. It was a little weird that the metal trees were just wood, and not metal. Planets are going to be generic to a point, there is just so much you can do with blocks. There sort of have to be a base on which you build the game on, and they chose a Terraria type base. To me, I like it, because I like Terraria as well. TBH, I'm not sure what else I would expect from it, simply because it's dirt. The point, I think, is that it's supposed to be bland in that way. However, to me, I do feel like I have moved in the galaxy. I'm unsure what can be expanded on, maybe better weather effects but the environments on the planets seem to be different. Honestly, some planets are going to be sort of the same as the last, however there are things that will be implemented that will give them differences. The differences exist, I mean I notice them. Some planets have regular water, but the next might have poison instead of water, yet others have lava and the entire planet has that red look. Backgrounds on the planets are different as well. I understand what you are saying, I'm just unsure what they can do with this platform they chose on how to have even better variety than they already have.

That first point went long, sorry. Ok, on to number two. I'll take my experience here from Terraria. You progress in that game by doing much of the same here in Starbound, in that you make tools that allow you to mine faster. There is a "tier" system in that based on the ore type you use for the tools. There are different armor types that are better than the others, based on a tier type system as well. Basically what Starbound is doing is the same, with a much deeper tier system than what Terraria had because the game is much larger in scope (in my opinion). What you are essentially doing is getting to one tier so you can progress to the next. Most RPS's and metroid castlevania are like that. You are progressing by killing a boss of a certain level. This has been a basis in games for a long time, you progress through a level (a sector/tiers) to get to the boss so that you can kill it and progress to the next level. In the progression of it, you will find loot. Some will be useless that normally you'd sell in order to attempt to get upgrades from a vendor, or go back out and look for more while you are progressing. Some farming is in order in the hopes RNG is on your side. Progression in this game is a lot like Terraria, so that's why I feel like there's nothing really wrong with it. To add; it's going to be linear to an extent, because you need a progression structure for the player to understand and know how far along he/she has progressed in the game. The armor tier plays a role, but you need to see this in the tools and weapons you acquire. They might be underwhelming right now, but to me, it all feels like it's the foundation of the system and no where near final.

Third. This is one I'm surprised I found to be the same in relation to my own opinion. When I found my first village, I expected to be able to sell items to the dealers. The first village I found was an Avian one, so they had a lot of stands set up with the dealers running to them when they saw me coming near. The villages are bland, but I feel that the ai has yet to be expanded on. I think I read that that will be something expanded on. The npc's do sleep and I've noticed some eat, but you are right, they don't need to. The player needs to eat, yet doesn't really need to sleep. I would expect that to be expanded upon as well. I also believe there is supposed to be some sort of faction system that will be implemented some time later, but I don't know when or much else about it. To me, a lot of this feels like it's the base structure of a system being worked on. Great feedback for sure, because I was thinking the exact same thing. Nothing meaningful when you find those villages, other than eradicating them for loot.

Fourth. There is a weather system, but I've only seen it snow with what looks like ice chunks falling. I thought that was cool. I've yet to see it rain, or thunderstorm. I know there is more to the weather system, but I suspect the Angry Koala update had some unexpected bugs or something, to be expected of course. I do know trees do regrow, both naturally (I think) and when you plant saplings. I witnessed the saplings growing to trees over time, same with the plant farm I had. As for plant farms, I believe the food there is place holder as well. I believe all of this is going to be expanded upon, but in what direction I don't know.

In conclusion, I liked the feedback you provided. Most of it is what I feel as well, but coming from Terraria to here, I feel a lot at home within the game. I understand that most of what we are seeing right now is the foundation of the game. Some systems in the game will be bland, a lot like how some of Terraria's systems are bland, however when they add in the addition of the full quest system I believe things will be a lot more alive. This system will add quests to the villages we find, as well as npc's we find "in the wild" on the planets. There is a lot yet they have yet to add in, but that is to be expected, as you are already aware of. They have a great foundation, at least in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say you are wrong because that's far from what I'm doing. I agree with you on all the points, but I wanted to give my own observations based on Terraria, because essentially this is a Terraria clone in a lot of respects. However, this is it's own game. What I expect to see in the future of the game's beta is expansion on the current systems, new systems added, and better game play when everything comes together in the roadmap that Chucklefish is driving the game toward. I do feel there is a lot that we have yet to see, and I'm excited to see what we will be getting.

 

Well to address the trees specifically: I feel that foliage in general could be more random and varied. Trees don't need to grow straight up. They don't need to have a strict center and branches. They don't need to have one trunk. This doesn't even have to be per planet. Imagine if on eyeball planets there were some trees that were just a stock and a big eyeball, or if the tree planting algorithm found a suitable gap in the landscape, maybe a eyeball connected to the top, the bottom, and a few different other directions, making a sort of web. There's a lot to do.
As far as dirt, I more meant that all the dirt is placed on top about as thick and there's never any mechanical variance. If they could make the sand effect controllable to different degrees, then they could implement blocks that stuck together somewhat, but caved in if too much was left unsupported. Adding this to dirt would make all the planets feel much more different.
As far as the weather and biome changes go, I feel it's almost going in the wrong direction. You can have a snow biome with lava on it, which makes little sense. The new weather things can be added, but they don't really have an impact on the planet as a whole. If a planet has acid rain, the whole planet should look corroded or look to be made of material that could resist it.

My primary concern with Starbound's system is actually it's divergence from Terraria's. In Terraria, if I had the materials for hell armor I could craft it. In Starbound, if I had diamond ore, I'd still have to craft stone silver gold and all the other tools before I got to diamond. This type of progression is standard in most rpg's (the new age stuff seems to want to get away from this, but that's off point), but I don't feel that starbound should be about rpg progression as much a sandbox space exploration game. It really limits you when you have to do things in a specific order for arbitrary reasons.

Yes, the villages remain very lackluster. I'm interested in this one the most, actually. Partly because I see it as one of the most difficult things to implement in a proper meaningful way, and something I'm sure the dev's would like to neglect and put off.

well, the sapling thing isn't exactly what I was trying to address. More the lack of non-player-initiated change. If you let a planet be, nothing will happen. The planet wont grow into a dense jungle. The mobs wont give birth like mad. The npc's won't expand. The water won't sink into the soil or erode away nearby rock. Nothing. At the time of posting I wasn't aware trees would regrow themselves, but It does little to improve the situation.

In my own conclusion: I too, appreciated your well thought, complete and cordial reply to what I said. I'm excited to see what this game becomes too.

 

I agree, but i don't think this is close to the finished game, if it was it would be really boring :/

 

Terraria got around this by having a natural and organic progression system. It simply go more difficult the deeper you went. Sure you can fcraft hell amor as soon as you acquire the materials, but chances are you had to craft platinum armor to get those materials.

SB has all of its content on the surface, so of course you can acquire the best stuff before you are ready for it or even need to prepare to get it. So they have to artificially block you off from advanced items in order to maintain a false sense of natural progression. In Terraria, i could skip iron gear completely, or i could just make a helm if i found a really good chest. All in all, i crafted things because i needed and wanted to not because i arbitrarily HAD to.


Many people dont want to hear this, but SB is built after a mining game. Its progression was designed to revolve around digging deeper. They have A LOT of work to do if they want to totally revamp how this style of game works. They either have to hide advanced resources on higher tier planets- which makes the whole game feel level based and unnatural. Hide it behind quest- which would require TONS of content or itll get tedious fast and still feels unnatural. Change resource distribution enough to where you are forced to craft lower tiers out of necessity, but it would require A LOT more planet hopping.

 

I just wish to add my input on here:

- Very linear. Make armour, make weapon, kill boss, new sector, progress.

- Weapons, armour, even tech... many are just plain better than the rest. It's all progression.

- Player-centric. Nothing happens that isn't the player or just something random thrown at the player. Actions have little-to-no consequences.

- Later worlds are much to hostile to live on because you've got monsters attacking you all the time. (Annoying even when they can do no damage...)

- Heading to a later world and abusing tech (eg. infinite butterfly flight + rocket jump) to explore for chests means you can get weapons 10x the power of your current tier... But you're still limited on what you can craft.

- Most "decorations" are massively limited. The game is centric around mining resources which you then refine into pixels to make something you should just be able to make with those resources in the first place. I really dislike the whole "You can make these simple items, everything else you have to steal/pixel print".

- Races are all the same. I've seen the arguments about racial armours granting powers, but personally I think there should be at least some variation...

Overall the game becomes dry and boring once you've reached Sector X, and all you can then do is build stuff with friends, which would be great if it wasn't for the limitations on building, the fact you have to be right at the end to build everything, and the feeling that once you're done you've not really impacted the game in any way.

 

I have to agree.

 

i agree with #3 so much. if i happen to find a ton of silver at the beginning, why do i have to make a stone pickax first and then whatever is next and then silver? if i have the supplies for a silver pickax, let me make a silver pickax.

 

NPCs will be improved at some point, it's only Beta after all.

 

Thing is, I could see Starbound having the potential gto be a Skyrim in space.

This said? The difference I have with other people is I know that to make Starbound a "Skyrim in space" isn't a process that will take weeks, but months if not one or two years.

And yes, I mean this on top of the work that has already been done. Skyrim and it's ilks already had some basic engines or previous engines they could base themselves on to buidl their foundations.
People are surprised at the "lack" of content over the years the devs worked on Starbound.

I'd say perhaps they'd need to take a pause and realize that actually, yes, building a new game engine from the ground up(even Terraria actually used a pre-existing engine in the form of building upon Microsoft's XNA engine) takes a LOT of time.

The dev mentionned before the problem wasn't building content for the game.

It's building the systems which generating content depends upon. Which means a lot of under the hood work for no visible results..... until the systems are developped.

Also, most of the points on this list? They've already been aknowledged or talked about by the devs.

They are already being worked on.

So folks, before going (again) on "Why is this not superawesomeAAAgame after those years of development" take a pause and realize that, yes, just building the game to it's "current" state is something that took a LOT of ressources -and- time for a small team like Chucklefish. And asks yourself before going "X is underdevelopped and needs to be adressed NOW!" if X truly isn't being worked upon yet.

Because when you pause, look to say what the -devs- took the time away from development to say, then often you realizes that X -has- been aknowledged and is worked on.

So just wait for it to be ready before starting to judge "problems" that have already been aknowledged and worked on.

 

I think the main issue is that there is no easy place to find a lot of what the Devs say. If there was a thread or a list somewhere I think a lot of questions could be answered without the need for another thread. I know that NPC are being worked on, just like I know that loot tables and AI behavior are also being worked on, but damned if I know which threads I read that stuff in...

 

The game is still missing it's announced quest system, which later should generate not just a linear questline but also randomized/generated sidequests you could get at any time if I recall well the devs announcement.

The ship upgrade system is something that's meant to come and should also offer more options to the players.

NPC management(players were originally implied to be able to crew their own ship with NPCs and found their own colonies) is still at it's most primitive while announcement(and even recent ones) clearly implied we should have something more complex coming that, while not Sidescrolling Dwarf Fortress-lite in space, should (possibly) still be a little bit more involving than Terraria's selection of premade NPCs which always were the same you would get into your village.

Races while sort of same-y right now are also implied(or at least were in the past) to be designed to possibly have very different crafting recipes at game starts with many recipes exclusives to different races until those would be traded or found by other players.

And regarding stuff like sector X, jusrt be aware that while the sectors technically "physically" exist... it's pretty much been aknowledged by the devs that they afre not incomplete.

So when you go to Sector X(or, in fact, anything past sector Delta iirc if not earlier in the game), you're not looking at a completed sector. You're looking at a placeholder.

 

Why do people keep posting negative things, BETA... BETA PEOPLE BETA!!! Ffs.

 

I'd say the problem is partly that most of the folks who could communicate with the community are part of the more involved dev team as well.

So for them it's basically a case of "try to work on getting content out for the game" versus "try to take some time to communicate with the community so they know what's going on".

And then throw the fact that for the biggest of the complaints we were in the middle of the holidays(for which most of the dev team afaik live in areas where the holidays ARE celebrated) -and- the fact pretty much everyone in the dev team live in different timezones(when not literally different countries) and thus do not have a centralized studio* where they can meet each others at the same hours to discuss everyone's progress on their section of the game.




*And to everyone who would wish to go "Well, THEN they should!" I'd like to asks you if you know how much the lease/rent on a commercial studio building costs, without mentionning asking you about how to get the people who lives in different countries in the dev team would be able to move to the studio's country when you have to consider such things as, you know, passports and work visas.

 

It isn't all that negative, but it is asking for quite a lot.