Most recent Spring Y1 min/maxing results (128 sprinklers, 166k g) + question about community here

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PrincessBubblegum, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

    Depends on what you want to do.

    If you want a Y1 CC (Year 1 Community Center) completion, I'd go with Forest Farm. In addition to being able to forage the Fiddlehead Fern on your farm so you don't have to rush steel axe before the end of the first year, you have renewable hardwood stumps for Foraging grinding on off days to hit Foraging 6 by summer, and only needing a Copper Axe. Foraging 6 is desirable for being able to place down plenty of lightning rods so a) your crops don't get blasted, b) you have battery packs to make iridium sprinklers with for when your greenhouse unlocks, and c) battery packs are pretty good sale items.

    If you're just going min/max cash, go with vanilla farm, it has the most surface area to plant maximum crops.

    However, you're running into a problem. Because you're also going to want to produce 30-50 kegs *per week* (however many oak trees you have on tap). That's 30-50 iron per week, in addition to the sprinklers. The reason you want so many kegs is that you are wanting to keg as many Hops in your first summer as you can, because Pale Ale. So yes, you can spend 120 iron plus level 7 mining (which is going to take a hell of a lot of grinding to pull off in your first spring), or you can spend 40 iron and 40 gold, and save the other 80 iron for kegs.

    You're also going to want 30-50 tree tappers, which is 60-100 copper. And you're wanting that as SOON as your oak tree stand is up and running, so like as soon as the recipe unlocks.

    With the changes that 1.3 brought to the mines (i.e. slower level resets), you can't just grind the same five levels over and over again reliably. Therefore, the strategy is: Hit level 30. Grind out the copper from 30-40. Continue to level 50, grinding out iron. Then take the elevator down to 90 and grind out gold to 99. Then repeat. This way you're getting copper, iron, and gold in the quantities you need to progress.

    In other words, iron is harder to 'focus' now because you can't just grind the same five levels anymore because the levels won't have reset yet, so you basically grab all the ores in one trip, then repeat. Since you're going to need substantial quantities of all ores anyway (copper and iron for kegs, gold for sprinklers, iridium sprinklers later on, and lightning rods), you might as well grab them.
     
    • One More Day

      One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

      There is absolutely no way this is without mods. It's definitely possible to reach Fishing 3 after day 2, Fishing 5 after day 3 and Fishing 6 after day 4, I've certainly done those myself a few times in vanilla games. I expect a better fisher, who can get more perfect catches than me, could probably get Fishing 7 by day 4, but Fishing 7 is less than one third the XP of Fishing 10. Nobody is that much better. Hell, you wouldn't even reach Fishing 10 if you somehow caught 80 perfect and gold quality Largemouth Bass (@59XP each) every day for three days (15,000/59=255 Largemouth Bass needed). As for getting 40k, at 50% Angler bonus you'd need 178 gold Largemouth Bass in three days, or 98 gold Catfish, or some other equally unrealistic combination.

      I presume you've slowed down the speed at which time elapses, or simply frozen time altogether; either way, I don't think using such cheats is really compatible with min/max claims. There's nothing wrong with using cheat mods, I definitely have some farms which are huge cheat farms, but they're not min/max style farms.

      The backpack upgrade is 2k, not 10k, and Copper tool upgrades are 2k each, not 2500. So, you can get the backpack and an iron pickaxe for a total of just 9k. I'd personally recommend at least a copper axe too, for a total spend of 11k


      Not to mention it requires double the coal, and coal is usually a far bigger bottleneck in spring than gold ore; I certainly find myself buying a fair few pieces of coal in that first spring.
       
      • Magzie

        Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut

        The way the mine reset is supposed to be after leaving a floor wait until the clock pop over to 10 minutes and then that resets but you have to wait 10 in game minutes which does slow you down. Also I would be getting iron only the whole play through just in the first few seasons. I would have to get to the bottom levels no matter what cause I only ever use the Lava Katana which IMO is the best weapon in the game hands down. So just spring 1 and maybe summer 1 at the most then I would farm the gold floors with better tools.

        ALso A note about coal. I always go Recycling and Coal Furnaces. I use about 8 of both and pop in stuff mourning and night when I have time. Never have problems with coal.
         
        • ShneekeyTheLost

          ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

          You've been doing more reading of wiki than actually playing...

          Leaving a floor and waiting 10 minutes most definitely does not work in 1.3. I go down at least five levels before considering going back, and it takes me FAR longer than 10 minutes to go through four levels, but it's STILL not reset when I come back. That may be what it is *intended* to do, but this is not the functionality which exists within the game at present. Just got done doing another play through to take notes for my updated first spring build order.

          Lava Katana sucks, especially for the price you pay for it. Just stick to the Obsidian Edge until you get the Galaxy weapon of choice.

          Recycling outputs are RNG based and require a steady input of trash. You can only get it out of Driftwood (25%) or Trash (30%), which means you're going to need to have a steady supply of these for your recycling to function for you. That means either fishing yourself, probably on the farm, which is time you aren't mining or fishing in an actually worthwhile spot, or spamming crab pots and dealing with them every morning along with your crops, which is also a pain.

          I'm assuming by Coal Furnaces you mean Charcoal Kilns? No. Full-stop no. It takes 10 wood per one coal produced. That's insane! You desperately need as much wood as you can get for both Jars and Kegs. I mean, a batch of 30 jars takes 1500 wood. 1500! Even a batch of 30 Kegs takes 900 wood. And you're going to be doing this *weekly* for your first two years. Just... no. Buy the damn coal from Clint, if you need. But never, EVER use Charcoal Kilns.
           
          • WildServal

            WildServal Void-Bound Voyager

            Only SaveAnywhere, but I use it only if I need to exit the game earlier than I can finish it normally or to make me NOT replay the same things over and over again if I'm looking for good RNG.

            Only freezing time via Quest Log during fishing, which is an ingame feature that can be used without mods. In my opinion, it's okay to use anything that game has in order to min/max no matter if it is a feature or a glitch. It's in the game, it can be used, why bother restricting it? Eating time stop that is used in Skull Caverns is also an abuse actually, but I see that everyone is okay with it.


            I already have it. I told about the second one.

            Sounds like a plan, thank you.

            I thought it's cheaper (a bit) to use charcoal kilns in year 1, but of course they are time consuming, so it's better to pay more for coal and save time than buy tons of wood and burn it.
             
            • Magzie

              Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut

              Actually I have tested it. It doesn't always reset while in the mines them selves but when you elevator to the top and wait 10 minutes in game then head back down that work like 90% of the time.

              What the Galaxy sword is crap. People only like it cause it has the max amount of damage for sword. It's only stat is +4 to speed...rofl. Lava Katana has +3 defense and Weight +4. The Galaxy Hammer is way better the the Sword is does more damage and has weight to boot. As a matter of fact both other Galaxy weapons both have weight stats why is it not on the Sword. Thinking about it the cost to buy a new sword if you lose the free one is 50k making the Lava Katana half the price. Also I can't use negetive Speed weapon. They feel to slow. I most times use the wood Mallet cause it drops most times for me or the Bone sword. Then Up grade to the Steel Falchion Until I save the money and unlock the Lava Katana. Also the Katana will always be there and you just never know when the Shard will pop for you.

              Kilns are way good. The cost of wood??? Your going to be buying wood anyway until the cost goes up in which case you will be able to farm coal from the sprites using a the loot ring from killing them. Restocking 8 Kilns takes less then 10 minutes. Do it before you leave your house and before bed and the gives you 16 coal a day or 112 a week. It actually doesn't effect the cost of jars because I buy 2 stacks of wood 1 week and then 1 stack the next week to keep coal in house. That means I will be making coal anyway regardless of making jars. Yes that does mean in cost which has to be factored in to operating the farm. I also keep both Recycling and Kilns in the house so can hit both before leaving.

              Crab pots I put them at the beach but I fish at the beach and hit the beach most days anyway. I don't always do the pots only if I have extra time. Best place would be around your farm ponds as that will take you the least amount of time. Also you don't recycle for coal you just happen to get some coal from it. I recycle for refined quartz. Get tons of it from recycling and that means no need for spending coal for that resource plus any other items not needed can be sold. Most times I Stop recycling after the 1st year cause I don't need the resources. I also don't make the crab pots just buy a few when ever I have extra funds and place them down. 2nd reason for pots is gifts. All but a few fish from the pots can be made into Sashimi which is a good food source and great gift for all but like 4 people 5 if you include Kent year 2+.
               
                Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
              • ShneekeyTheLost

                ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                That... has most definitely not been my experience. However, your problem is that you're still spending iron that you could be using on kegs on making sprinklers. Also, how are you getting to Mining 7 before the end of Spring? I'd really like to know that. I can barely hit Mining 5.

                Here's what I do:

                NEVER buy a weapon. They're a waste of money. You get the iron sword, then you get the Obsidian Edge, both of which are perfectly serviceable in the levels you find them at. But in general, combat is a trap. It wastes time you could be spending on mining. Only start attacking if you have no other choice.

                Is the Lava Katana better than the Obsidian Edge? Yes. It's also 25k you could be spending on crops or barn/shed/house upgrades. Bluntly, it's not worth the cash when that cash could be better spent elsewhere.

                Once you get the Galaxy Sword, you can then purchase the Galaxy Hammer, which is my personal favorite weapon in the entire game. But the Galaxy Sword is... FREE! Well, not free, you need to get the Prismatic Shard for it, but you can just grind Omni-Geodes for that, which also unlock Korobus, so you're probably going to do that anyway.

                You do you, man, but Kilns are a trap.

                10 wood needed to make 1 coal is 100g. You can purchase coal for 150g from Clint, so you're saving 50g/ea. Which, granted, is a 33% savings. However, each charcoal kiln is a sprinkler you don't already have, since they cost gold to make. I would far rather have 8 extra Quality Sprinklers than have 8 charcoal kilns. I will pay the extra price for coal straight from Clint to not have to bother with buying up yet another stack of wood, designating it for the kilns, and remembering to do it every evening.

                You're going to need eggs for your community center, and most people like mayo.

                The ones who do not like mayo are: the kids (kinda creepy for an adult to give kids gifts like that anyway), Sebastian (who likes Quartz), Caroline (who likes Cheese), and Sam (who actually Loves cactus fruit and Likes Joja Cola).

                Sashimi requires 3 hearts with Linus, which is typically not the route I go on.

                Crab Pots are indeed a good source of refined quartz, though.
                 
                • blind3rdeye

                  blind3rdeye Big Damn Hero

                  Combat isn't always a waste of time. In the mines, you'll want to kill bats and dust-sprites. Bats follow you, and they die very easily - and their wings sell for decent value. dust-sprites give coal - so they're probably worth chasing if there's 3 or more of them. In the skull cave... if you have a galaxy sword then worth killing some big blobs. If you can pin them against a wall then the little blobs die very fast; and they have high-quality drops. You can get iridium ore or even complete iridium bars. It's probably not worth chasing them across the map, but if you're walking past a big blob then spending a few seconds to kill it might be better than spending those seconds hitting iron ore rocks.
                   
                  • ShneekeyTheLost

                    ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                    We were discussing first spring tactics to get your sprinklers up and running, things are different when you are diving for iron/gold than when you are farming in the Skull Caves. I mean, about the only reason you go IN the Skull Caves is for the Iridium, so it makes sense to kill the purple slimes.

                    And yea, often you have to kill bats/bugs, because they will swarm you if you don't. But generally, you shouldn't be looking for a fight, you should be looking to avoid them in the early game.
                     
                    • One More Day

                      One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                      I'd say this is a tiny bit cheaty, but if you're only trying to avoid repeating mundane stuff like watering or chopping in the morning anyway, then I don't see too much harm. Personally, I prefer to take the RNG as it comes, but if you're trying for the "perfect" run then fine.....

                      But this, this is definitely cheaty, and not min/max compatible at all.

                      If you're going to use the "It's in the game" argument then in that case, for ultimate "min/maxing", you might as well use the ID glitch, talk endlessly to Gus on day 1, and have as many ancient seeds, prismatic shards and oak resin as you can carry. Min/maxing should be a challenge, not a turkey shoot.

                      Of course you're cheating if you use the journal time-freeze glitch to hit Fishing 10 on day 4 — it's not min/maxing, just egregious abuse of a rather obvious bug.


                      This^ All of it

                      I think there's only one time in spring when choosing to start a fight is OK, and that's once I have the Obsidian Edge and there's a cluster of several dust sprites. In this situation, there's a good chance of getting a decent amount of coal dropping really fast for free, because the Obsidian Edge can despatch them in one or two swings, and because they're all bunched up, you can hit several with each swing.

                      This is a waste of wood, a huge waste of iron and a staggeringly colossal waste of time in Spring. Once you've got the fiberglass rod from Willy on day 3, there's absolutely nothing worth having at the beach at all until summer. Each trip to the beach wastes at least two hours, and time is the most precious resource of all.
                      Or if you buy them, at 1,500g each, it's a huge waste of money. And you still have to waste time baiting them every day. You could buy ten pieces of coal for every crab pot you buy, and you will never catch up that financial outlay. Remember, Clint is a lot faster to visit than Willy, once the mine carts are repaired.

                      I'd hardly call 5g each "decent value"; you're better off keeping them until you use them to make lightning rods.
                       
                      • Magzie

                        Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut


                        Ok so one not everyone does the CC. Does Min/max auto assume I do the CC every run through cause I don't it is a waste of time when everything can just be bought way faster. Your going by linus most day. You just give him a Foraged item twice a week and you will have the recipe in no time. There is 3 recipes you get from Linus Sashimi, fish tacos, and Wild bait all of which I really good recipe. As for Mayo it has 5 people that don't like that as a gift also. Not only that it sells for 190 base which means you lose 105 gold every gift. Mayo is no better of a gift and you lose money for using it. Min/maxing wise you think you would want to use the cheapest option for the most benefit.

                        What you say you don't buy weapon and then say you buy weapons?? And how about that drop rate there let's look at that. You can buy Omnis. The wiki says that finding a Shard is 1/250. That puts the cost of finding ones buying Omnis at 250k. Now I know you will not always buy them and can just farm Omnis but each one of those also needs broken open. That is a 25 gold cost each for a cost of 6,250 gold mind you that depends on how much luck you have in finding it could find it first one or could take 1k Omnis. It is better to get a really good weapon and then just wait till you rng one out of the Quarry. Also only 41 Items are Geode locked and there isn't any geode Minerals the are specific to Omnis, except the Shard, so you are more likely to get these specfic ones from reg Mining of the other geodes and breaking those down.

                        Then money thing. You talk about having Millions after the first year and then use the cost of a weapon as a reason why not to buy it. You will not miss 25k if after Min/Max summer which is about when you'll unlock the sword. Your going to have plenty of gold. For those that don't they just save up till they can buy it.

                        It doesn't have to be gold the recipe only requires gold. Heck I could farm copper and make the Kilns from that. As a matter of fact I could actually make iron from copper and then gold from iron and not even use any of the iron I farmed for the Kegs or what ever else you come up with that requires iron. I mean IS there some magic limit that I don't know about for the amount of iron I can mine every week. If I have enough for kegs every week and everything else I can use the rest for what every. I can use extra copper to make the Kilns. Heck you get one for free doing the CC which would give you 14 extra coal every week if you want to be super cheap about it. Also On another thought here buy gold ore from the Blacksmith will cost you 2k per bar. 2 iron bars cost 1.5k. You'll save 500 gold per bar if you are one of those players that just buys the ore from the Blacksmith instead of mining.

                        As i have pointed out above I don't use Crab pots to get coal I get some coal from crab pots so I don't see how saying buying coal voids owning pots as My main coal income comes from Kilns. 2nd Buying coal from Clint doesn't make you money back every day. 3rd getting the cart open early does save time but once you have the horse it is faster using the horse to get around. I only ever use the Carts if I need to go to the cart areas. Also I pointed out that I am going to the beach most days to fish any way so I'm not wasting time since I am going there anyway. 3rd I get stone, wood, coal, torches, Cloth, and Refined quartz. I sell any items I don't use that I get from Recycling I sell. Torches sell for 5 gold a piece and you get 3 so that is 15 gold each. Since we are all using Art bonus any cloth I get even at a 10% drop rate mean 658 gold and I most times dump Refined Quartz when I get over a stack for a little over 39k once or twice a year. It doesn't take long to refill you just hold the bait in your hand and refill as you collect.

                        I also want to note: It doesn't have to cost you any thing to get into Recycling or crab pots. You get one free Recycling Machine from the Field Research Bundle if you want to wait till then. You get 3 free pots from the Crab pot Bundle which you can do without having pots down. Clams, Oysters, Mussels, and Cockles you'll find on the beach and you will get a crab from the mines from killing rock crabs. Once you get Recycling going you get all the mats to make both from Recycling. No extra farming needed and no extra gold mind you if you don't want to wait till winter you will need to make your first Recycling Machine.
                         
                          Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
                        • WildServal

                          WildServal Void-Bound Voyager

                          I consider this a feature, not a bug. If it would be a bug, it would have been fixed long ago as for example it was done with Always Golden Spring Onions if you had space only for golden onion you would always harvest golden onioins. And again, then what about freezing time during eating or using inventory menu to quickly change your equipment when you're in Skull Caverns?

                          Can't see anything not challenging in what I do, but whatever.

                          I don't want to argue with that as we obviously have different approaches, so I guess it's better for me to leave this thread for good. Thanks anyway.
                           
                          • ShneekeyTheLost

                            ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                            In a true Min/Max setting, you won't be gifting anyone anything, and the recipe is valueless.

                            Also, CC Completion is a major Min/Max run. Currently, I think the soonest someone has completed the CC was Fall 10th.

                            Wut?

                            No, you avoid combat, and never buy a weapon during spring and summer. It's not until after you are situated that you purchase a Galaxy Hammer after you've already got the CC completed, you've already got your Ancient Seeds propagating, after you've already got your weekly groove of keg and/or jar production. Mostly for funsies.

                            You do the geodes for the iridium, so you never have to set foot in the Skull Caves, rendering the necessity for weapons obsolete entirely. And it is more like 1%, not 1 in 250. AND you also get gold, iron, copper, coal, and various minerals that can be sold to mitigate a portion of the purchase price. But again, this is after you have everything established. Until then, the Obsidian Edge is a perfectly serviceable weapon, and costs you nothing.

                            Because small mistakes early in your run will snowball out of control rapidly. I'm hitting gold levels in the third week of Spring. At that time, you will need to start getting your Coop/Barn up and running, getting your kegs/jars going, and of course crop expenses. In short, you've got close to a hundred thousand you can spend on things that will significantly boost your income with, while a sword is just a pure expense at a time when your money is tightest. And by the time you can afford to buy a Lava Katana... it's obsolete.

                            Also, how exactly do you expect to purchase a Lava Katana if you stick to iron levels? You've said several times now your goal is to stick to iron and just transmute your gold. But they won't sell you the Lava Katana until you hit level 120. So are you literally diving, and completely ignoring all the gold along the way for the sole purpose of unlocking the Lava Katana? That... is extremely sub-optimal. If you are going to stick with iron, you aren't going to have access to the Lava Katana... or the Obsidian Edge for that matter.

                            You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

                            You still haven't explained how you can hit Mining 7 (for the gold transmute formula) by the third week of Spring in year 1 to be able to initiate your setup as described.

                            Coal from a Kiln is not 'super cheap'. It's 100g as opposed to 150g. With many, many drawbacks to it. But perhaps the problem is one of scale.

                            A set of 30 Preserves Jars takes 240 coal. I plan on having a *minimum* of 90 by mid-summer. Because I cannot realistically unlock Oasis by the end of Spring, I go for Hops and Blueberries. And I can literally TRIPLE my profits on blueberries with Preserves Jars. And you can get a LOT of Blueberries from even a modest crop. Then in the fall, they will come in useful processing my Cranberries.

                            Let's do some math, shall we? Assuming all that coal was purchased wood that was processed through Kilns... somehow... that's 72,000. Purchasing from Clint comes to 108,000. So we're looking at roughly 35k in difference for price. However, with 8 additional quality sprinklers from the gold you blew on the kilns, I could have 64 additional hops being watered maintenance free. Which, after taking a week and a half to grow, produce one hops each per day. Which, when brewed into Pale Ale, assuming Artisan, sells for 420g/ea. So... that's 64*420 = 26,880 PER DAY that I am losing by spending that gold on kilns instead of on sprinklers.

                            No thanks.

                            Or, you could just avoid the beach entirely, other than a couple of fishing trips for CC completion, since there's nothing relevant or interesting there. In which case, everywhere you want to go, there's a cart for that. Need to get to Clint's to stock up on Coal? You can do that. Need to get up to Robin's? Well, just walk that. Need to go mining for more minerals to keep up your keg production? You can do that. Need to go to the Adventurer's Guild to sell off some drops? Mine cart location is closest.

                            Where do you honestly go on horse that wouldn't just be faster to warp to a minecart location and walk? The only place I can think of is Robin's. Meanwhile, that's a lot of resources you spent on what is essentially a vanity item.

                            Field Research Bundle requires the Nautilus Shell, so unless you get lucky with a Cart Vendor, that's not an option before winter. Which is too long.

                            I agree that a few crab pots and a recycling machine or two can keep you in Refined Quartz, or at least mitigate the quantity you need to process. Keep it on your farm so you can hit it up every morning. The fish are secondary to the 'trash'. And it's worth a couple of iron to not have to process all that quartz. But that's about all it is good for. Your hypothetical cloth example is extremely edge-case. First, you have to a) get a soggy newspaper, then b) get it to produce cloth. You might get one or two cloth in a year's worth of processing, but that's about it. It's a bonus, not something to depend upon.
                             
                            • One More Day

                              One More Day Cosmic Narwhal

                              I agree to an extent, as I usually prefer a mix, repairing the Minecarts and Bus via bundles in Spring and early Summer respectively, the Greenhouse and Quarry via Joja soon after the bus, and Panning if and when I remember to bother, but that's just a personal preference, as I usually try to min/max the money-making opportunities. I bundle Minecarts because easy access to mines early, and the Bus because although it's 2,500g more via CC, you get a crystalarium, and a free lightning rod, both of which can earn money and will quickly pay off the difference. I also do like to try for the Specialty Fish bundle for the 5x Dish O' The Sea before I buy Joja membership, because I always like to try and mop up all the Legendary Fish, but cooking is a ball-ache.

                              But rushing the CC is definitely a min/max too, just a different kind, and it can be fun too on occcasion.

                              I tend to just run past Linus anyway. Friendship with NPCs can wait until there's time, usually at least mid Fall, certainly not Spring, and Linus is no exception. I'm certainly not gifting him, ain't nobody got time for that. Sashimi is over-rated, there are more efficient food options that are also easier, and it's just too much effort to make the large quantities you need. Wild bait is kind of pointless anyway; it's very expensive in terms of time to acquire ingredients to craft, none of which can be reliably bought anywhere, and the edge over regular bait is almost non-existent, particularly considering how little fishing you'll do after you unlock the recipe. Fish Taco needs a Tuna, which is effort, it needs Mayo, which means animals, again too much effort, it needs Red Cabbage, which doesn't unlock until Year 2, and it needs Tortilla, which means growing Corn, which is an all-round PITA crop — all in all, Fish Taco is comfortably the worst and most inconvenient recipe in the game, for very little benefit, only +2 Fishing, and I'm in no hurry to get it. You can get better Fishing buffs from easier recipes; the +3 from Fish Stew is probably the easiest as it requires neither fishing nor animals.


                              You will always find more forageable quartz than you actually need, it's the coal for the furnace which is the problem. So, if you're doing pots "for the refined quartz", as you pointed out above, then, albeit indirectly, you're effectively still doing it for the coal. Avoiding the intervening processing stage of physically putting it in the kiln is merely an incidental little bonus, but not hugely valuable in itself because furnace capacity isn't an issue; in Spring you can easily always have more available furnace time than you will have coal to keep them burning constantly. So, having established that your crab pots are de facto coal machines, then in that regard, every fish you get is a wasted day, as is every Soggy Newspaper, and most Trash and Driftwood days too, because they usually recycle into something that is not coal; to cut a long story short, on average, for each crab pot, more than three out of four days will be wasted. Assuming you sell everything from the crab pot/recycling machine system that isn't useful, ie wood, coal, stone, iron ore or refined quartz, your 1,500g investment in each pot, which would have bought ten coal instantly, will take approximately 22 days simply to break even finanically. That assumes you hit Fishing 10 and choose Angler. If you aren't at Fishing 10, it's 25 days to break even financially. That takes you into the middle of Summer and beyond, by which time you'll be buying coal in bulk anyway. It'll take an average of more than 40 days to actually save you the ten pieces of coal, which takes you into Fall. There's no coherent argument for crab pots as a legitimate Spring purchase, so just buy the coal in Spring IMO.

                              Sounds amazeballs until someone tells you that, on average, each crab pot will only produce one Cloth every 132 days (Ocean) or 133 days (Freshwater), ie not even one per year. The per diem contribution to crab pot income is <5g per pot per day, even with Artisan, which is less than the cost of a day's bait. So let's not get too excited, OK? All told, there're better things to do in general, and much better things to do in Spring, than run up and down lines of Crab Pots, considering how little they give in return.


                              This is actually pretty easy, just get down to level 80 ASAP and then break loads and loads of gold nodes.... Oh wait
                               
                              • Magzie

                                Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                I never said the CC wasn't a Min/max thing. I ask why it was being walked about like that is the only way to min/max. I have read the OP post a few times now and the thread seemed to be about the Min/max community in general. My question was in reference to Mi/maxing in general as well and some posters on here seem to want to use the Min/max cc run to void my points which were just Questions as I don't Min/max and am just now looking into getting into it. When I said doing the CC was a waste of time that was in General terms I wasn't referring to CC runs. If I can do all the stuff the CC can do and half the time just by making gold and have a Company do it to better the community then I'm on board.

                                Iridium Ore actually drops at the same rate from Magma Geodes mind you you can't buy them in Bulk. Also I prefer doing skull cavern because I know i can get the Iridium ore faster there. It take a mind numbing amount of time to process geodes.

                                Ok i get it you don't like combat and try to minimize it as much as possible. How ever that doesn't mean that is the best /worst way to do it. The Obsidian sword how ever is a way worse sword. Sure you have to buy it but you will be killing the thing you will have to kill faster. Also if the goal is to avoid combat then you should be sticking to weight for the knock back. Not only does the Obsidian Sword do less damage and swing slow it will not knockback enemies. If I am planning on buying the sword then I plan for that cost. Buying a sword if you do do combat like farming coal through drops or the like is never a mistake you just don't like it which is fine. In the farming example the Obsidian Sword will take 2 hits to kill the sprites with a 37.5 damage average where as the lava Katana one shoots them with a average of 59.5 damage. This also means the Lava Katana will kill every monster fast that you end up having to kill even if you try to avoid combat. Also The sword is slow swinging which will let the enemies that are fast like the sprites get on you.

                                Now since the money thing got brought back up again which is a non issue really I believe my state was: "Then money thing. You talk about having Millions after the first year and then use the cost of a weapon as a reason why not to buy it. You will not miss 25k if after Min/Max summer which is about when you'll unlock the sword. Your going to have plenty of gold. For those that don't they just save up till they can buy it." So I never said I would be unlocking it in the first to season just sometime after summer when I unlock it. And I have already said I start farming down through the Gold level in summer as I want the Stardrop. I just use 10 stairs to unlock the Sword.

                                This statement here which looks nice is false. You see just because they are not auto watered doesn't mean I will miss out on those hops. I could water them by hand. Spending 8 gold or 16 iron on Kilns does even mean I am making less Sprinklers at all. That is just the way you are looking at it. If you hit the amount of iron/gold I would need for the Sprinklers that I already planned on then I can make what ever I want out of the the rest of the gold /iron as long as I get my fields set. You keep making it sound like it is ether or and it isn't. As for the 30 jars minimum 90 jars that is fine between All the mining I will be doing and my 112 coal a week I should be good if not when I did the next run I would just plan for 8 more Kilns. It takes like no time to refill them just run down the row hold the mouse button down for the most part.

                                Again I said I put them at the beach not that they should be put at the beach abd I even said "Crab pots I put them at the beach but I fish at the beach and hit the beach most days anyway. I don't always do the pots only if I have extra time. Best place would be around your farm ponds as that will take you the least amount of time." So if your a player that doesn't go there allot in your runs fine put them where you go. If you mine allot put them around the lake. You don't need allot and it isn't like you will be filling them all the time unless recycling is a main part of your Strag as I point out here "I don't always do the pots only if I have extra time."

                                I actually agree with you about winter being to late to start it and I would make after ensuring everything was set up for Kilns and I am going to be able to make the amount of Sprinklers I needed.

                                On my current test run , and just starting into the min/max thing. I think i got into fish to much and it hurt me on the mining runs. I hate fishing anyway I only did it to ensure enough money for Strawberries. I think I managed 95 or something like that. Now I am at the 21 of spring and just now hit 60 in the mines. That means I am water still by hand. I did get the Salmonberries done. If I am going to do all iron I think I'm going to need to skip fishing all together since I'm not doing a CC run until I hit the levels I need to farm. Also the game hates me I think I have had like 3 non bad luck days so far. As for mining 7 I have hit it in Spring before But I have never done All iron run before so I need to break a 3rd more iron deposits to hit 7 without gold. Gold is like 6 more xp the iron deposits. (I think I need to do more Min/max runs first and get in the groove of that then just switch to iron only in the first 2 seasons and see if that makes a difference. This run might be a wash. I could always stick to Blueberries and hops for summer till I unlock Starfruit.)

                                Also I forgot the horse thing. The horse increases your speed by 30%. Even if you always use the carts you still have to walk to and from the farm. You could say you use speed food but the food stacks with the Horse buff. You get 17% per point of buff so at least 47% speed boost riding a horse to place you can't take the cart like the secret forest. Also riding the horse down and then over thought the pineforest for me is faster then taking the minecart and walking to the beach but I have never timed it. You are welcome to. The is just 5 iron and hardwood. 10k gold. Don't know what heavy Ingredients you were talking about. I mean you are not using the hardwood. I mean the gold would only be spent after ensuring everything else is paid for.

                                Also for the 1% thing wiki says .4% drop rate and the 1/250 is from the wiki. Again it is RNG so it could pop sooner or could take 1k to pop. Depends on how lucky you are. (IRL not daily luck) I hate the weapon as there are better weapons to use. My favs are the Lava Katana and the Galaxy Hammer although i have been known to play around with a few daggers just for kicks.



                                I don't use his other recipes just Sashimi for food and gifts. I don't actually talk to him after that. You can only gift him 2 week it is not like you are best friend talking every day. I hate fish so I could care less about the bait recipe I only know some players love it. Also some Min/max Player as a extra challenge try to complete all the Achievements so I added that info. Sashimi how ever ensure I sell every crap fish for 75 gold That is why people that use Crab Pots unlock it.


                                Ok Again I have to repost a part of the quote. This part is false. I do like how you weave the words to try to make your point but anyone who has use pots can see through this comment. The only ingredents that are waste from pots are torches and Cloth. Now the Wiki doesn't have the chances on getting each trash item That I could find but I get way more then once a year. I average about 3-5 cloth when I run Recycling set up. It really depends on your set up and RNG. You can get enough to hook up a mill for a sugar run if you want that in a year. Also every other mat that you get from recycling is used in the kegs, jars, and Sprinklers so it is extra stuff you don't have to buy or mine and made sometime you get coal. It is like Geodes I break down geodes for the ore chances but I am still happy when I get coal but I don't break them down for the coal that would be dumb. Combine that with free food. Even if you don't set the crab pots at the beach 90% of the fish will only sell for below 75 gold which means making them into Sashimi will sell for 75 gold a pop or you can just eat them/gift them.

                                Gold nodes only give 6 more xp them Iron nodes. I don't know how many of each spawn each floor But much runs I get way more iron per floor them gold in most cases but that again is RNG so.
                                 
                                  Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
                                • ShneekeyTheLost

                                  ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                                  Uhhh... there's the problem. You're talking after summer. I'm talking third week of spring. HUGE difference. I get Obsidian Edge pretty early on, I aim for that and the starfruit at 100 for my goals of how deep I go, then I generally just... don't bother going all the way to the bottom at all, at least not until far later. Now I have copper, iron, and gold on farm to grow my farm exponentially.

                                  It's not a matter of how I 'don't like' combat, it is that I realized how much *time* combat takes. Think of it for a moment. Your whole and entire reason in the mines is for copper, iron, and gold. That's it. There is nothing else in the mines worth your time. Sure, maybe pick up low-hanging fruit if gems or artifacts drop, but your goal is to get as much copper, iron, and gold out of the mine. Every moment you are spending in combat, you are NOT spending either moving to a metal node or mining it, which reduces your overall yield. Which is a problem. You need, minimum, [number of oak trees on tap] per *week* copper and iron bars to keep up with keg production, then as much gold as you can to continue growing your sprinklers. This is an ongoing expense. You have to be above and beyond this amount if you want to even tread water.

                                  Thing is... a great deal about min/maxing your profits is getting your profit engine up and running as soon as possible, because the sooner you do, the sooner you start raking in the cash. Getting the Lava Katana after Summer is valueless because the only place where Lava Katana might be remotely needed is the Skull Cave, and by the time you go THERE, you should already have your Galaxy Sword. Or you can just go in with your Obsidian Edge. I could make a 'git gud' meme here, but it would be trite and mostly pointless. Thing is, the lava Katana saves you no time, it is purely a safety measure. If you know how enemies move, and how to manipulate them, it is entirely unnecessary and a waste of gold.

                                  I hate to make definitive statements like this, but at least as far as profits go, you are, bluntly, wrong. Watering crops spends endurance that you will need desperately trying to expand your farm.

                                  Your problem is stamina. It's a resource that is very tightly gated. Can you eat food like cheese? Sure. However, each piece of cheese you eat is one you can't sell, which is a reduction in profits. So now you are looking at a cost/benefits analysis. If you manually water 64 hops, every day, you're spending time and stamina doing so every morning, which reduces the time and the stamina you have to mine with. Which slows your expansion of your sprinklers. Most especially in the Spring, where every single sprinkler is absolutely mandatory because the more you get before Summer 1, the better off you will be. Spending it on charcoal kilns that merely reduce the cost of coal by a third is NOT cost productive, by any stretch of the imagination.

                                  Luck has almost zero impact on a run. Ignore it. It is less than a tenth of a percent of a chance either direction on only a couple of things, and ore spawns are NOT one of them. Ignore good/bad luck days, they aren't worth paying attention to, and that's time you take to check your luck on the TV that could better be spent elsewhere.

                                  I also favor the Galaxy Hammer, once I have enough disposable cash to pay for it, typically close to the end of my first year or so, however that's more for lulz than for any practical reason. Lava Katana is a trap because combat itself is a trap. The Obsidian Edge, which you get for free, is more than capable of killing soot sprites in the iron levels, and bats in general. You shouldn't be fighting anything else, because it will simply distract you from your ore generation.

                                  Is the Lava Katana better than the Obsidian Edge? Undisputedly. Does it matter? No. You shouldn't need it.
                                   
                                  • Magzie

                                    Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                    Few notes: The luck comments is in reference to ladder spawns.

                                    Daily Luck Effects
                                    Daily luck affects the following:

                                    That means on bad luck days you will spend more time each floor looking for Ladders even if I don't check it daily having only 1-3 good luck days means less floors per day.

                                    But your going to be using food. Yes it will cost a bit more but you make it sound as if you empty the Stamina bar and day is down. Now the time issue is a really problem but you can always eat more food. You can just buy bread from The Saloon or what ever. If I am going to water extra by hand I will plan for that and make sure the budget in food to cover. There is also the main point in that statement. Making Kilns doesn't mean I lose out on sprinklers. You said your self that you mine as much gold to make as many Sprinklers as you can but in the end of the day you know about how many you need a day for summer. You have also showed that you have the number of crops planned ahead of time. Also if you do do a Kiln set up you save time traveling into town to buy coal every time. even if you have the cart unlock still takes time to walk to the cart and to the shop and back. Less trips save time. Also you should have a copper watering can by then 64 plants is only ~21 uses.

                                    I will trust your statement that it is better. Whether it matters or not is just an Opinion which isn't wrong or right. You are going to get into a spot where you are trapped by mobs and having any weapon with knock back will get you out of that spot faster. Also in most cases killing mobs spawn ladders faster then breaking stones. Mining ore, killing mobs, then breaking stones. Unless your pick is upgraded which in most runs I watch it isn't.
                                     
                                      Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
                                    • ShneekeyTheLost

                                      ShneekeyTheLost Master Astronaut

                                      I already crunched the numbers on the effect that Luck has... and I think you didn't quite understand my point. My point is that it has such a vanishingly low effect on anything that it can be effectively ignored. You can see the breakdown here.

                                      In your first summer, your sole goal is to expand as widely and as rapidly as possible. To cover a vanilla farm, you will need HUNDREDS of them. Therefore, in your first year, it can be assumed that you can ALWAYS make, and place, more sprinklers.
                                       
                                      • Magzie

                                        Magzie Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                        ok So first of all

                                        "Most of the factors that Luck impacts are significantly lower base chance of happening than that, which means Luck's impact is correspondingly lower. The only curious exception to that is ladder generation from rocks.

                                        As you may or may not know, the odds that breaking a rock (which includes metal ore, gem ore, or any other placed stone block, but NOT including large stones) increase as the number of rocks decreases, ending up with a guaranteed spawn on the final rock (assuming one hasn't already spawned). This is done to ensure that you never get stuck without a potential way down in any given level. However, this also means that as the odds of this happening goes up, the impact of the luck modifier also goes up, meaning you are more likely to get a ladder to spawn from breaking rocks sooner than anticipated. However, as this does NOT impact the odds of ladders spawning through any other mechanic, including mob kills, this isn't as impactful as one might think, unless one simply dodges enemies in favor of destroying rocks, or using bombs to clear rocks rapidly (a.k.a. the 'bomberman' method of clearing levels). Furthermore, the slight penalty on a maximum bad luck day does not significantly delay your ladder from spawning all that much, especially if you focus on fighting enemies, and the final rock in any given level, assuming no ladders are yet present, is still guaranteed to spawn a ladder, as an overriding condition."

                                        So from that link You suggest killing mobs for better chances of ladders spawning. How ever nothing about that guide or your comments about luck make any sense. You will clearly, no matter how small the chance is, progress through the mines better and faster on good luck days. Also I clearly said in my post that I wasn't getting as many floors on bad luck days and that hurt my progress. I really only care about result from gameplay. Bad luck days I get maybe 5 floor cleared. Good luck days I get 10-20 depending on RNG. Also people only mine on good luck days because 1 it will give you higher coal/ore per day and faster ladder spawns. People don't go on bad luck days because there is tons of other stuff that I can do on bad luck days that are not affected by luck. My statement from my run was that I need more progress each day and that was effected by the days I went mining on bad luck days. It is a simple test. DO 10 runs in the mines on bad luck days and track the floor progress and the amounts you get from the trip. Then use the mod to max daily luck on those next 10 runs on the same game save and track the progress and amounts. Then you comp[are the results. You can't just say "doesn't effect anything" Or at least show the formulas the game uses as proof. That guide linked is Opinion not fact.

                                        It has become clear that the goal here was not talk discuss the topic at hand but to prove which way was best. I had a simple question. Has anyone tried running the same way they always do but farm the iron levels instead of pushing for gold in the first 2 seasons then converting using the iron to golds crafting recipe. From, what I have read from all the guides all that happens is posting math on what could be. I personal would rather have had someone test the results the post. I will not be posting back on this thread. Good day.
                                         
                                        • blind3rdeye

                                          blind3rdeye Big Damn Hero

                                          Hey now, it depends what you are trying to 'max'.
                                           
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