RELEASED Maru White Skin

Discussion in 'Characters' started by diippyjas, Mar 8, 2016.

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  1. lucas182

    lucas182 Void-Bound Voyager

    A guy changes an npc's skin color to white, in an indie game about farming, with pixel graphics, and the "you're racist" comments start piling up.

    It's a game. It's a mod. Use it if you want to, don't use it if you don't want to. Jeez.
     
    • Campaigner

      Campaigner Giant Laser Beams

      Not sure why I'm bothering, but here goes.

      - Mixed race means more than one gene. Either side can be dominant, or they can be mixed and make what Maru normally looks like.
      - Wizard exists. He changes people's appearance. It's not entirely implausible that, in some alternate world, she's not dark skinned.
      - There's a witch who curses your chickens/slimes. Surely skin alteration is perfectly reasonable by this point.
      - We can choose to be blue and green. We're obviously in a fantasy world at this point.
      - It's purely optional content that, in absolutely no way, affects the game.

      That being said, I'm looking forward to more recolors. More options are always good.

      EDIT: I know exactly what tpp is referencing since it was posted "elsewhere", and I now feel very, very sick to the stomach being reminded of that horror. Thanks!

      EDIT 2: Not gonna make another post, but TheFool (below me) raises a VALID point. There was no need to go off on those who supported the mod.
       
      • TheFool

        TheFool Astral Cartographer

        we already do, even.
        we have a mod that makes the wizard, a male, into a cute anime girl.
        we also have a mod that makes alex hispanic.

        funnily enough no one has raised any real issue over those two.
        only now that maru was changed.
         
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        • BlushingCreep

          BlushingCreep Space Spelunker

          In the official wiki, Demetrius is her biological father. Sebastian is his step-son. It IS possible to be of mixed race and have light skin. But, the way she was designed was with darker skin that was made to be white with this 'mod.' Therein lies my objection and I'm frankly surprised that so many people are taking issue with what I've had to say. I thought we were further along than this.

          I don't have an issue with making Alex hispanic, nor having people turned into anthros or whatever. But, this issue seemed pretty clear cut as a literal white-washing of a character's race. This is incredibly upsetting, having to defend myself against so many people.
           
          • Fawnd

            Fawnd Void-Bound Voyager

            Why is it that people always default to imaginary skin colors when discussing race?

            Like it doesn't matter if Maru isn't a real life breathing, flesh and skin person... She is a cluster of pixels and code yes, but that doesn't change the fact that she is mixed race character and has a darker skin tone. The issue lies in the fact that there's already a limited amount of people of color in this game (hell in most video games even) and to take away what little representation there is in the game just seems unreasonable, to me at least.
            I won't say that there isn't a possibility that Maru could have been closer to white passing, but she isn't. A race mod is not the same thing as an aesthetic mod. An aesthetic mod changes things like hair color/style, or clothing, the style of the character themselves, or even the gender of a character but that's a whole different can of worms I'm not really wanting to get into. If you want to date a girl with light skin, there are four other girls in the game that you can date/marry.
            I really don't know what to say to people who feel they have to change her skin color for her to be considered "cute".

            I won't discredit the work that went into the mod because it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort to mod games. I just disagree with people feeling like they need every person in a game to be white when white characters are plentiful whereas other races are not.
            Not casting any judgement on the creator of the mod because I do not know their intentions behind it and where they come from since other countries do have differing views of race and representation than the United States (they did state that they don't speak English very well so I'm going to go out on a limb as assume they either live in a different country or have come from a different one). Really I'm just tired of seeing this trend of racial modding pop up in any game that can be modded ever.
             
            • phelipehulk

              phelipehulk Space Hobo

              "I don't have an issue with making Alex hispanic." "But, this issue seemed pretty clear cut as a literal white-washing of a character's race."
              I was only watching until now, but now i'm confused.
               
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              • ateos

                ateos Aquatic Astronaut

                Wow, you have no problem when a white male is turned hispanic? But when a mixed girl is turned to her other possible genetic color you get upset?
                 
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                • cunnyform

                  cunnyform Space Hobo

                  Your agenda is becoming too apparent. Better tone it down.
                   
                  • Kcho

                    Kcho Void-Bound Voyager

                    Why do you care though? it's someone else's game, it doesn't affect you or the way you play whatsoever, you can't tell someone how they can or can't play their game, if it bothers you that much then just close the thread and don't look at it.
                     
                    • Cruxador

                      Cruxador Poptop Tamer

                      If being "further along" means that it's fine to turn whites hispanic and men into women but lightening a woman's skin is terrible (because it's mandatory to have a token black person for some reason?) then I think maybe you're going in the wrong direction. Like, I honestly think the cutest Maru is her old curly-haired sprite, which is, to my knowledge, her most typically "black" aesthetic appearance. But insinuating that making her lighter instead of darker is somehow morally wrong or non-progressive just doesn't make sense in light of your stance on other race changes.

                      I mean, you don't really have to. If you're upset, maybe step away from the computer and cool down? That said, if very many people disagree with you, you should probably be open to the possibility that you're the one who's wrong.
                       
                      • BlushingCreep

                        BlushingCreep Space Spelunker

                        +1 to everything Fawnd said. THANK YOU.

                        By the way, like I said, the person who did the mod didn't really do much work. They used paint bucket to fill in her skintone and shadows with a caucasian color palette. The original modder's artwork shows her as her original, in-game color. Actually, it's lighter than her original sprites. But, it's still closer than this. Way closer.

                        Toonyoza's work:

                        maru_sample.jpg sample_maru_h.png
                         
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                        • TheFool

                          TheFool Astral Cartographer

                          therein lies a big issue, i think. you're saying you're not talking down to people, but what does "i thought we were further along than this" mean? that "this is something that shouldn't be modded" mean to the modder? that everyone who doesn't have an issue with this change, and sees it merely as a harmless mod to an pixel game about farming, is less progressive? less moral? less "further along"? the passive aggressiveness in your posts is real.
                          interesting you don't have an issue with the alex mod, since it really is the same exact thing as this.

                          i'm sorry you feel upset, but as you said you were stating your opinion, and so are we. calling it whitewashing or wrong isn't going to do anything to cull the conversation either, since now you'll get everyone responding just how it isn't whitewashing or wrong to use a "fill in" tool on pixelart or change a daughter both to a black father and white mother into one or the other of parents skin color. when people are told they're wrong or shouldn't do something, you should expect them to explain their own counterpoints.
                           
                          • BlushingCreep

                            BlushingCreep Space Spelunker

                            I think this is fundamentally wrong. Adding more racial diversity is to be applauded. Taking it away is to be admonished.

                            It's definitely upsetting, but I'm pretty certain that nothing I've said indicates that I need to 'step away from the computer and cool down.' Standing up for things that matter to me is my choice and right, and that's what I'm doing. I don't need you to take care of me or my feelings because your opinion of me doesn't matter to me. So, concern you with yourself and leave me to worry about myself. I don't believe that I'm wrong. I believe you are. And, you won't convince me otherwise. Which is why I asked, politely, that we agree to disagree. Yet, you continue. I only reply to make clarifications, since there seems to be so much confusion about what I'm saying. And, to request that you kindly stop patronizing me.

                            You didn't do the 'mod,' and I don't recall asking your opinions. I did, however, ask the 'modder' why he chose to do this. If he wants to reply to me, that's fine. If you want to try to systematically break down everything I say and pick apart my opinion, I can only do the same to you. Or... ASK that we agree that neither of us will agree on this matter, and call it a draw. As I did. Before. And, again. And, again.
                             
                            • irrimn

                              irrimn Pangalactic Porcupine

                              Keep in mind the 'Official Wiki' is edited by players and even if that is in the lore of the game (which I haven't seen any proof of in-game), it is just a game and is made up. It's not a real person we're talking about so technically none of them have fathers so who is the father is completely irrelevant.

                              Whoa, you're a hypocrite if you think changing Alex to be Hispanic is not equivalent (literally the same thing, changing someone skin-tone to a different color/race) to changing Maru to be Caucasian. You're offended about that but you're not offended about the change to Alex? It's a two-way street, ya know.

                              "Further along than this"? Really? Would you be MORE offended if someone made one of the white characters black? What if they painted them in black face? You can be racist against white people all you want, yet it's not considered racism because why? I feel like you're under the assumption that, and I quote, (someone said this to my face once), "You can't be racist against white people."
                               
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                              • Avarwen

                                Avarwen Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                Not sure what the point of this mod is what's wrong with Maru being half black do some of you really find black people that ugly that you have to change the race of a game character. I mean really I'm not going to change the race of all the other characters to black just because it's a game full of white people and I happen to be black that would be very silly.
                                 
                                • Cruxador

                                  Cruxador Poptop Tamer

                                  That's what this changes. Unless you think that race is purely a matter of skin color, this is not a race mod. If you do, please study ethnology a bit or at least meet people of a race other than your own before attempting to be authoritative on this.

                                  I agree that if this was supposed to be a "make the whole village white" mod, that would be stupid at best and offensively discriminatory at worst. But it's not. The game didn't focus on race much in the first place, as it portrays a somewhat idealized life, but no line of dialogue is being changed, and thus nothing of personality of personal identity. On the other hand, you're saying that Maru can't be white-skinned because apparently that violates some ethnic quota? You want to ignore that she's not a real person, so fine. Let's pretend she is. What right do you have to say that she can't identify more with her white parent simply because you want there to be more black people in town? In that case you're treating a person as a statistic rather than an individual deserving of their own personal choices.
                                   
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                                  • cunnyform

                                    cunnyform Space Hobo

                                    Why is this fundamentally 'right'? Explain please.
                                     
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                                    • Campaigner

                                      Campaigner Giant Laser Beams

                                      Might I make a suggestion? Ignore things you don't like. Just drop the argument, it's only getting worse.

                                      To go slightly unrelated (as it pertains to another game), I don't download anything related to My Little Pony because I (absolutely hate) dislike it. I don't go complaining to the modder when they make the stuff, and I'm sure that's what they'd want. Hell, I commend them for making something they want to make; that's the "job" of a modder, and no matter if you like or dislike it, there is some respect due for actually making content, no matter the scale. If someone has an issue, it should be a noteworthy one. For example, as you've said, he recolored another mod. Maybe ask if there was permission granted/needed?

                                      I'm done though, going to just read and actually play the game instead. @diipyjas, good on ya for adding more content to the modding scene. It may not be a massive amount, but it's still something we didn't have.
                                       
                                      • Fawnd

                                        Fawnd Void-Bound Voyager

                                        Did I say that I wanted to tell someone how to play their game? I can't control other people's actions, but I can disagree with something I find morally wrong just as you and the others in this thread are defending the mod because you see no issue. I was simply stating my opinion and what I thought about the matter, just as you and the other posters here are.

                                        Her race being changed doesn't affect me personally because I am white. I care because there are people that are black or mixed race who will be playing this game and might come to this forum for the same reasons we all have and might see this mod or a mod like this that implies that in order to be "cute" or "date-able" a person should be light skinned. I'm not calling the racist card because again, I don't know the person who made the mod so I cannot speak for them. But this is white washing and even if it is a fictional character, the change CAN affect people.
                                         
                                        • Cruxador

                                          Cruxador Poptop Tamer

                                          If it's not upsetting to the degree where that might be advisable, why bring it up?
                                          Just to be clear here, we're talking about a slight palette modification to a sprite for a game about pretending to have a happy life.
                                           
                                            Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
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