Such a shame people don't want a level system. Terraria was so limited because of the low caps on health and weapons+gear not getting stronger as it was used. Mods that brought this stuff made that game 20x better. Looks like we'll have to depend on mods again for this game to give stuff like this because people don't seem to like being rewarded for fighting by making yourself stronger.
but it's not a shame because finding and making new equipment to increase player power is more interesting than finding the optimal monster to fight over and over until you become stronger while naked than the new guy with early swords and armor
Explain to me why it has to be one or the other? RPG's do well with combining both, so I don't see why both couldn't be combined in a game like this. I'm just not happy with the only way to build health up is by finding hearts or whatever and all this fighting you're doing is just for money and materials you already has tons of. I personally like to have a reason to stop and kill an enemy. Getting mats you already have a ton of isn't exactly a reason to stop and fight. That's how I feel anyway. It's like in Zelda games for example. Once you have more rupees than you can use you have no reason to fight anything, They offer you nothing helpful so there is just no point in fighting them. While in a Final Fantasy game, you run into a random battle, you may get money and items you don't need... but you also get some experience to bring you closer to improved stats which makes you a little stronger. These games also have gear you can earn and enhance to make you even stronger. It's all about BALANCE. It takes a combination of fighting AND gear to make you strong... not one or the other.
xp for stats is completely unnecessary in a game about exploring the infinite planets of the universe at will, health improvement can be more naturally tied to what you find make and use instead creeping up in power based on how long you've spent punching deadly wererabbits for the deadly sin of appearing instead of getting stronger by beating heads against walls ad nauseum, you could explore the universe and find interesting items that open up new game mechanics and tactics or tie xp to unlocking recipes for items you haven't already unlocked recipes for
In Minecraft, XP is "Grind for hours, waste all your diamonds in the hope of striking lucky" and not really a true "levelling" system, since the XP was more like mana for enchantments. Not a very good system. I agree with this. Starbound is also much more exploration-based that Terrarria. In Starbound, i'll probably find a mid-low danger Forest planet and claim it, then once I build a small settlement there, i'll go and tackle a more difficult planet, collecting loot and materials to advance my home, crafting recipes and new Tech modules. After a while, i'll move on, find a different, more difficult environment, explore and mine and hunt and so on. Eventually I'll end up with some great gear, and look for a threat level 100 planet with really bad conditions, and set myself a new goal: Survival
Still seems like you're looking at things in the manner of building yourself up one way or another, not a combination of both... Finding and building gear combined with a level up system can and does work if it's done right. It's not like I am saying there should be no weapons to make or build in the game and you should only level up for power... I am saying it should be a combination of both as it adds to the game and doesn't take away from it as you make it seem. You already have your mind set on it being one way or the other and they can't be combined so there is no point and trying to explain it any further as it's apparent you are not willing to try and understand what I mean.
and i say such a system is unnecessary and undermines the explore-for-items game there is no need to reward persistent grinding of arbitrary experience measurements when accumulated money can be used to purchase equipment with better stats, avoiding the 'naked superman vs newbie' problem and allowing newbies or the time-deprived to fill out an exploration group while statistically competing on the exact same level as their friends without sinking time into health gains thanks for making me look like an obstinate prick, especially while shooting down a vague 'it'll be good just listen' idea that's already been previously stated as not appearing
One thing: teh devs have explicitly said that they don't want any RPG elements in the game. And you know what are RPG elements? Stats, levels, that kind of stuff.
Level system is totally absolete and absurd, since it makes developers zone out the game world for different level ranges, or "level up the world" along with the player. Why building this synthetic pile over the game mechannics that work perfectly without it?
Pardon me, but this really is not a particularly cordial manner in which to conduct a debate. Nor is there a lack of point in your trying to explain. There was a total of six comments exchanged between yourself and TokaMakuYokuu, hardly enough for the conversation's potential to become exhausted. I would actually like to emphasize that there would be great use in your continued explanation because, from what you've provided thus far, I have no idea what you are trying to propose beyond a combined style of a wholly equipment-based progression and a leveling progression. What stats do you think should increase? How should level acquisition progress? Linearly? Exponentially? So far, the only things anyone has to go on are their experiences from other games that boast a leveling system, and as you can see, many are not in favor. If you have something different in mind - something to defy expectations - then let's hear it. It will give more focus to the conversation so that it can go somewhere meaningful, beyond a glorified, "YES! NO!," exchange. And it might convince you that TokamakuYokuu isn't set in his/her ways so much as opposed to what a vaguely characterized level system would cause in-game. At this point, I'd like to get around to responding to your other posts, and I disagree with a few things. Firstly, health. I, sitting here and typing on my laptop, have no real way of increasing my hit points, whatever those might be as a denizen of reality. If, however, I discovered a means to increase that abstract number, I would move mountains to do so because, let's face it, who wouldn't like to be able to drop off of a skyscraper and survive just as easy as you please? I don't see why that sense of drive to improve shouldn't be translated into the game with as much of a sense of reward placed on it as possible. With a stereotypical level system, everything increases all at once. Ok, that can work and be quite fulfilling, as many games have shown. But if you separate it out so that you have to invest yourself more into gaining health, and other pieces, separately, you end up with more potential. You go from, "The time I beat the Grand Poobah and leveled," to, "The quest for the Font of Constitution (Health)." "Training under Grandmaster Fel for application of the blade (Weapon damage)." "Stealing the Crown Jewels (Stealth)." Yes, those last three are kind of romanticized compared to the Grand Poobah one, but a big thing to note there is that where there was one, there could be three or more. You wouldn't necessarily burn out of the game as quickly, and each area could have its value seen in its own right. As an aside, weapons and gear don't get better with time. They break down. An increase in weapon damage shouldn't have anything to do with what level you are. How good your chances are to hit a critical spot on the other hand, is not a bad thought (And one I'll get to later.). As for mods, yes, it does look like you'll be needing some to obtain your preferred game style, but in this instance, I think that's warranted. The developers shouldn't have to betray their vision of what the game should be, and that includes its style and its focus. If exploration is a higher ideal to them than combat is, they shouldn't give you every reason to slaughter mobs without a thought, and you should have to look for external help to change that. This is what I was referring to. What you're looking for in a game, which appears to be combat, is not the primary focus here. That, I think is what's causing this dissonance. In point of fact, it isn't about balance. It's about the style and focus the developers wish to elicit. And now for TokamakuYokuu. I agree pretty well in full with the contents of your messages, but I can see where kirkyeehee's combination concept has some merit. At risk of say, "It'll be good, just listen," I do have an idea of how it wouldn't be entirely untoward. I'd like to preface it, though, with the fact that I'm acutely aware of the fact that a level system has already been stated as not appearing. I just enjoy hypotheticals. Consider this. While a person's weaponry won't (And probably shouldn't) increase in damage over time, that's not to say a person who has spent every day for the past ten years practicing with a handgun shouldn't know how to hit precisely what he's aiming for. In that respect, a somewhat passive level system could be potentially useful. Let's say that you hit the ground running with a 1% chance to make a critical hit (Greenhorn got lucky). In the background (And by background, I'm not referring to the in-game HUD, or literal backgrounds, but to something akin to damage calculation), there's a file keeping track of when you gain experience and how much you've accrued. Eventually, you snag a level, at which point, your critical chance goes to 1.5% (Huzzah! You're slightly better at aiming your attacks.). Every level thereafter, you gain another 0.5% chance to make a critical hit, signifying an increase in your skill at hitting things effectively. You could have a few other such things (A slight dodge chance perhaps.), but they would have to be things that make sense. Combat ought to increase combat-related skill and nothing more. At this point, it would be a matter of determining how quickly someone should have these stats increase (linear/exponential level progression, at what experience value you level, etc.), to what extent (0.5% was just something of a placeholder), and whether in a game that's going for limitless possibilities, to have a hard cap in place. You can only become so good before you start to defy the laws of physics, and it would help alleviate the "'naked superman vs newbie'" issue. I've seen a few mentions of implants being a possibility in Starbound, and the fact that armor and other gear will be present is a given. While I'm aware that any one of these items could be used to increase a trait like this, there are only so many items you can pack on, or in, to a person. Something like what I've put forth would allow a natural progression of something(s) that would reasonably progress naturally. It shouldn't be something to make a big to-do over, but at the same time, it shouldn't necessarily be unimportant. Have it go on in the background and when you achieve a new level, have a small note appear in your logbook. Or, don't even do that and just have the change show up in your stat list for you to notice at some point. Is such a system necessary? Certainly not. Is it a bad or good idea? Well, that's what conversation weighing merits is for.
this is more palatable by virtue of being so inoffensively minor in gains, even if i disagree with the very notion of tying statistical gains directly to simply playing the game the hard cap is interesting. running with the idea, crit-increasing items can raise the crit cap and rate separately with the raised cap only being reachable by fully developing your natural crit rate, or the natural crit rate being a multiplier on top of crit rates determined by gear also i sat on this post for an hour while my internet died
Aye, that was the notion. Give some benefit that follows level-progression, but one that won't devolve into a gods-don't-bleed scenario. That said, it would be even better if your critical chances were determined based on weapon type rather than just being a weapon ("No, swinging a sword will not make you better at firing a rifle Little Timmy."). The issue being that if you break it up like that, you need more code to keep track of it, which could be a bummer. The nice thing is that it further obfuscates statistical gains based on playing into something that makes sense. Correct on all accounts (Though, perhaps not a multiplier so much as an additive function.). I suppose I should have said that you can only become so good before you reach the limits of what's physically possible for your body to accomplish (Oh. Wait. I guess I kind of did, but not nearly so clearly.). But, as in reality, limits can be pushed with the appropriate item(s), so Logic can sleep soundly. Ouch. You have my sympathy. When our internet acts up, the only thing keeping me from bashing my head against a wall is my wish to keep my brain cells alive, happy, and healthy.
the real bummer is feeling pigeonholed by your choices, even if practically speaking the difference is almost negligible. i found out it was because someone accidentally pulled a cord out in a way that defies probability while sweeping dust
Just out of curiosity, if this is not what they mean when the devs say "leveling system" in the updates, what do they mean?
Agreed. Feeling as though you've been forced into a style you consider less than desirable is something games would best be served by avoiding. I think that having the types of weapons separated out would help slightly because, once you found your favored weapon type, you'd end up becoming better with it without actually having to worry over it (Similar to the way I got hilarious bonuses to sniper rifles in Borderlands because they were my favorite thing to use. I never really thought about it all that much. Just appreciated it.). If I'd been looking for a handgun since whatever world-ending cataclysm forced me from home, but had had to use a spear for a long while, I wouldn't feel too boxed in if I had a 6% to crit with the spear compared to the 1% with the handgun (I understand that I can't substitute my feelings on the matter for everyone else though.).At that point, however, I'm not sure it's a leveling system so much as it is a skill system (Which could be something of a middle-ground I suppose.). I occasionally wonder if some pieces of technology aren't willfully mischievous. Some of the things devices manage to do with seemingly utter disregard to statistical likelihood is astounding. If I am not entirely mistaken, I believe what you (and the developers) are referring to is planet level. Planets have a level value of one to 100 that designates their difficulty. It's intended that level 100 planets will be difficult to survive on even for players with the best gear they can get their hands on.
No Just I'm sorry but no... Starbound doesn't need any level up system I don't want to hurt your feelings but to me this would just ruin the game for me.... and it would separate the cheaters from the real players if someone decides to hack the level up system (saying if it were in a multiplayer game) Anyway it's just when I see Starbound I see thee largest sandbox with limitless possibilities but...when you add levels it changes limitless possibilities to DEPENDING ON YOUR LEVEL limitless posibliltys.
