Let's talk about the matter manipulator

Yeah, this is all just an aesthetic change, not a functionality one.

 

Gathering blood huh? Sounds good, they should include that in the game.

 

I think it's fine if our MM starts visibly upgrading.
Else it just gets a bit confusing.

 

Maybe the specific change to the icons, yes, but some of us are discontent the concept of the matter - instead of the Matter Manipulator just being another tool, a useful one but just one tool, now the Matter Manipulator is -the- tool for everything at all times.

 

People keep saying "the tool" for everything. It really only does 3 things. Collect/place matter, paint, and wire. That to me isn't a God tool. Far from it. The only thing they are eliminating is redundancy of having to upgrade a pickaxe while older pickaxes become obsolete. And having to press a hotkey to change the functionality to wire and paint mode is essentially the same thing as having to press a hotkey for your hotbar to change to a wire or paint tool. They're just saving your two inventory slots. To be honest, you don't even notice that the wire and paint tools aren't there anymore since you're still hitting the hotkeys to change to those modes. How many people really paid attention to the wire and paint tool slots when switching to those modes?

But to me, having to waste hotbar and inventory slots on an axe for wood, pickaxe for blocks, hammer for walls, etc is not my idea of fun. That's the one thing that was always annoying to me about Terraria; having to waste so much inventory slots on wire tools and wire and paint brushes for blocks and paint brushes for walls and 5 slots for paint and a hammer and a pickaxe and an ax and ugh! Some consolidation is not a bad thing.

It might be nice to have a slight visual appearance change when switching modes (kind of like changing bits on a drill), but that's only an aesthetic change, not one of functionality.

Now, if the MM also could kill mobs and butcher them for meat and skin them for leather and process ore to ingots...then I think it's going too far. But really, having it do 3 things isn't all that "god tool" to me.

I'd even like to see them expand the MM to actually allow "bits" (again, like drill bits) that allow difference grid shapes when collecting or placing blocks. I'll take an NPC merchant for that!! And give me a toggle/cycle hotkey to change my bit. I'd love a bit to place a 1x5 line of blocks instead of a 4x6 square, etc. Or a 2x6. Or an L shape.

 

The matter maniplulator is still far from a god tool. When it can kill enemies, craft, and enable techs, then we can call it a "god tool". For now all it does is mine, place things, and paint. Not to mention the lower mining area and power than that of a pickaxe. Not only that, but you need to gather materials for the upgrades as well, you dont start the game with the ability to gather liquids and paint walls, you have to find the materials to unlock those abilities. Every time you enable a new ability for the MM, its the same as gathering the materials for a new tool and making it, it's just a lot easier and wont take a space in your hotbar.

 

Fully upgraded, it has a 5x5 mining area and does 5 block damage per second. It becomes superior to all tools. Just saying. I don't think this is a problem, however. I have no issues with the MM becoming the all-in-all final tool to end all tools by the end-game.

 

I agree, once it gets fully upgraded, it only makes sense that it should be more powerful than the rest. You still have to gather the materials for that final upgrade. I think the problem people have is that they would rather have a completely new tool made than have that final version of the same thing they started with. Sure it's stronger and more useful but it still looks like the first thing you used until you could make a pickaxe or upgrade it.

 

A visual difference between upgrades would be nice. I am actually looking at making a mod for that.

 

Glad to hear it. I can see that being a mod I would use frequently.

 

And what other functions do other tools have? Please, do tell.

[/QUOTE]I don't see why this is necessary, considering you start off with a broken and battered, stranded ship. It makes sense that you would have to resort to basics for a bit, and then build you way back up to technological supremacy. And, really, as Starbound only had two "kinds" of tools (Axe and Pickaxe/Drill), that is hardly a valid complaint - you're complaining about Terraria, not Starbound. The tools were already rather consolidated. I don't think it was at all necessary to make pickaxes and drills basically obsolete from the beginning of the game...

 

You're almost making my point for me ("Starbound only had two kinds of tools"). My whole point was about not understanding where people are getting this whole "god tool" thing when, as you said, it's only replaces two tools. And the point of mentioning Terraria wasn't about Terraria, but point in fact, their mechanics are a valid comparison which aptly applies to the whole argument "god tool VS more individual tools". It was used to illustrate what I don't want to see in Starbound, and the fact that more individual tools does not mean "better" (for me).

That said, I really didn't have much a problem with pickaxes and drills in regards to earlier stages of the game. But logically I think it makes more sense when you have the technology in Starbound to use the same concept (upgrading) and apply it to a technologically advanced tool like the MM. The manipulator is still something you still have to work on to upgrade (and that can take awhile), so the only change when it comes to game mechanics is saving two hotbar slots you'd have those tools in.

I think a better way to approach this is to either introduce tools that accomplish things that the matter manipulator can't, or introduce tools that accomplish things and an even grander scale. A hoe, for example, for cultivating dirt as opposed to placing/removing matter, makes sense to keep. Or other terraforming tools that can blast/remove even larger chunks of land (15x15, 20x20, etc). Either that, or make multiple attachments/bits you have to craft to add to your matter manipulator then give it some variety of skins depending on the mode/attachment. You're still doing the work that way, you're just saving inventory slots and molding things to fit more with the Starbound theme/style.

To me a "God tool" like a lot of people are making the MM out to be, is most definitely something that can do a lot more than , pick up, place, wire, and paint. Anywho, my whole point is that's a bit overblown. I'm all for all for more tools that do things the MM doesn't, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of what the MM can do now.[DOUBLEPOST=1439467233][/DOUBLEPOST]I'd also like to point out that I've always been a "more options to appeal to more people" advocate. So I most definitely don't have a problem with them ALSO having pickaxes, and axes, and hammers, or any other individual tools for those who like that sort of thing. Just as long as they don't take away from the Matter Manipulator. Might be a bit redundant,but the code is already there for drills and pickaxes, so keeping them in is simply a matter of making more sprites. Certainly doesn't hurt anything.

 

Actually, the "two tools" bit was my response solely to your rant about Terraria's tool system. Starbound did, in fact, have five types of tools in a general sense - Pickaxe/Drill, Axe, Paint Tool, Wiring Tool, and Matter Manipulator. And now, the Matter Manipulator is the only thing that the devs ever want players to use because two of them were absorbed into the MM, one was never developed upon and had its crafting recipe removed, and the last ones were horribly nerfed and had their crafting recipes removed, severely limiting anything they can do.

The Matter Manipulator is the only tool you will ever need now, compared to before, and I do not like that one bit.

Which, in all likelihood, will not happen.

You do make a point in mentioning the hoe. I forgot that was a tool, but I am sure Chucklefish is looking into a way to consolidate that into the Matter Manipulator since they made the Wooden Watering Can useless when you can dump water on dry tilled soil. Also, the Matter Manipulator has other ways of changing tiles via matmods (grass seeds), so it is not out of the question to wonder when we'll be getting a Dry Tilled Soil "seed" that applies the Dry Tilled Soil matmod like the grass seeds apply the grass matmods.

 

I can't see the point of forcing people to use ancient technologies (IE: Picks and Axes) when it's supposed to be a futuristic game. The idea of consolidation is not simply a matter of convenience, it makes sense in the context of the universe. Think of it as you will, all this is is a simple re-skin of the existing tools. If they decided to make them look like guns, or crayons, or sex toys, they'd still function the exact same way.

I get the feeling the bias and discontent stems form a very simple "change is bad" attitude.

This tool is literally a Deus Ex Machina, it solves problems with absolutely no practical basis or consequence.

All that being said, I'd absolutely love to see each race have their own version. I'd also like to see NPCs using them since we've all got one, it's probably a safe assumption they're fairly common place.

 

You start off with a broken, battered, stranded ship and you can't see the point in starting off with old technology over hyper-advanced technology? The point is "you can't rely on hyper advanced electronics all the time".

 

That "broken" and "battered" ship is still "hyper-advanced" as you put it. The Life support, AI and Teleporter technologies still function. If one thing is broken, it doesn't mean everything is.

If I'm on a fishing boat in the middle of the ocean, and the engine breaks down, the crew abandons ship, and I'm left adrift, it doesn't mean I can't use my fishing equipment.

 

Technically, only one of those things is valid. The ship AI crashed and required a reboot, and the teleporter was on the fritz until the AI reset it as well. Many things on the ship are broken, not just the the engines, fuel repository, ship locker, hull and navigation systems - the only way the player survives is through dumb luck and emergency measures which require going back to basics for a while. Even if you don't start off with basic tools like a pickaxe anymore, you still are required to go through the process of building with stone and wood until you bust out the freakin' Anvil and make a sword. The entire game screams "you can't rely on hyper advanced electronics all the time" and you don't get that? That's the whole point of the starter quest line.

 

If a reboot solves problems, then it wasn't truly broken to begin with.

You have to revert to wood and stone because you don't have any metals to use off the bat. And having metals doesnt insta-push you back into the advanced technology stage. You need the tools to make them, which is why you need newer and more advanced crafting tables. The constant factor that remains throughout your progression is the trusty matter manipulator.

 

And some of us don't want the Matter Manipulator to be constant. Some of us are okay with having alternative tools to switch to when the Matter Manipulator can't keep up. Unfortunately, Chucklefish doesn't want that.

 

Lazarus hit it right on the head, if you can simply press a button and something starts working again, it's not really broken.

Please speak only for yourself by the way, the phrase "some of us" is ambiguous and could me 3 people for 300,000 people of which others, and yourself, have no actual evidence of.