Let's talk about the 1.0 lore rewrite

This is a good post. It's easy to point at Asra and the Occasus in general and say "they're bad because they're racist," but why are they racist? They may be bad, but they're still people. Something they experienced led them to become racist--they have reasons for believing what they do, even if the reasons are irrational. The Starbound lore gives us a half-baked reason, but it's not enough to keep Asra from being flat and boring. And a flat, boring antagonist makes for a weak story.

IRL, we can look at the history of Jews in Europe, the Germans' defeat in WWI and the subsequent economic crash that broke their spirits and made them hunger for a strong, charismatic leader to see why they came to believe what they did. We can look at the history of black people in the United States, and current and past socio-economic structures to see why the Klu Klux Klan exists. The stances these people take are hurtful and irrational, but understanding how they got there is useful, interesting, and important. The idea that "these people are bad because [X] and that's all you need to know about them" isn't that different from "these people are bad because they belong to this ethnic group." Obviously not liking racist people isn't as bad as the things the Nazis of Klu Klux Klan have done, but that sort of thinking is part of what allowed those people to reach the wrong conclusions they did.

The depth you propose is way beyond the level of narrative complexity the devs have ever cared to apply to Starbound, but I wouldn't say that it's impossible for a cartoony-looking game like Starbound to tackle. After all, the old lore was quite dark, with avians sticking living humans into sarcophagi, Big Ape experimenting on its citizens, etc.

Heck, I do use Starbound to tackle such topics (a bit--I haven't gotten to the meaty bits of that arc yet), using the grudge between humans and avali that Sock mentions. Granted, I'm making a machinima that goes well beyond the abilities of the game, but still.

 

Avali aren't really part of Starbound lore though...

There already are reasons for humans to join organizations such as Occasus, and those reasons are none other than the flaws of the other races.

• Avians still mostly follow a religion that makes sacrifices out of their enemies, and even a number of those who don't has turned to a life of piracy.
  
• Apex are ruled by an oppressive government that was responsible for the USCM falling apart, and while there was probably no clear evidence, there were definitely were rumors... and rumors are powerful when someone's career just fell apart.
• Letheia Corporation more than likely exploits many non-Hylotl as cheap labor force, in spite of humans and Hylotl having a close bond otherwise... possibly causing some to resent the Hylotl and perceive them as dishonest.
• Florans have a hard time shaking their image as a race of savage butcherers, and there are still bands that haven't abandoned such lifestyle to begin with.

You don't need some explicit anti-human conspiracy shoehorned in. There's already plenty room for individual humans to feel wronged in the universe of Starbound.

I'm fairly sure that the Miniknog does experiment on the Apex, and that you can still find a sarcophagus that seems to have a living human inside, so I'm not sure why either of those would be an "old lore" thing.

 

It doesn't matter how keen you are to say it, the simple fact of the matter is that being racist is independent of being delusional or an asshole. Oversimplifying people with complex motivations/feelings/experiences to racist = delusional asshole helps no one. However, if you need to believe that to feel better: please continue. Some of the best and brightest villains (and some heroes) had a prejudice against one race or another for various reasons. I feel as though this (racist) picture sums it up best:



I do enjoy seeing people attempting to take the story in different directions. I'm glad this thread is getting some new blood in it.

 

All of those reasons would work if the story actually bothered to make actual use of them. No information at all is given about Occasus beyond the fact that they're a small-minded racist cult. They're flat, they all look identical, and only one of them even has a name.

My post was mostly aimed toward the idea that giving Nox and the Occasus in general some kind of depth makes both them and the overall story more interesting. It doesn't make Occasus' actions any less wrong, but it elevates the story beyond a cliche flat good vs. flat evil story. It's still good vs. evil, but the added depth gives the story more weight.

 

Then why is none of this mentioned in the main plot by Nox (at least in her introduction, when first impression of the antagonist is key I might add)? It seems that Chucklefish doesn't utilize such facts and treats them as minor grievances which really wouldn't be enough to justify the Occasus even for less rational and/or more vengeful individuals, I would think.

Sorry if it seems like I copied your post, Yellow. I'm typing on a suboptimal device and the alert for your post came up when I was already well into this.

 

Honestly, what I was proposing was more of a suggestion on how to make the current story make a bit more sense. For a full rewrite, I would:

1) Retcon Asra Nox out entirely. I wasn't kidding when I said she was a pointless strawman. She barely even qualifies as a plot device.

2) Give the Occasus cult more presence in the universe. And red robes. I mean come on, seriously? Purple? Really, though. Maybe some underground temples dedicated to the Ruin or something here and there. As you get into higher-tiered planets, you could even start running into alien towns that spawn with visible damage and are inhabited entirely by armed Occasus members. I think you catch my drift.

3) Include an entirely new non-playable race/species. They would somewhat resemble humanoid creatures, but would ultimately be spawn of the Ruin itself, and would possess a great number of general Ruin-spawn characteristics (single big yellow eye, slimy red skin, boneless limbs.) These creatures would ultimately be the ones attempting to bring the Ruin back into our dimension, and would sometimes disguise as Occasus cultists themselves, being distinguishable by a slightly greater height.

4) Retcon the Protectorate out, as well. It serves little to no purpose in...anything, really. The player would go back to being a random refugee from their homeworld whose ship broke down.

5) Instead of taking a big steamy exposition dump all over your face when you first meet her, Esther would simply comment on how mysterious the ancient gate and all of the carvings and holograms around it are before telling you how to fix your ship. This would, aside from being less tedious on subsequent playthroughs, establish her as a kind, generous, and grandmotherly character who is willing to help you even when the survival of all life in the universe does NOT literally depend on it.

6) Most missions would be the same, but the circumstances and the boss designs would be changed to better reflect the idea that the Ruin's influence is spreading. As you get farther into the game, the Ruin itself would even begin communicating with you telepathically and trying to convince you to join it. Or drive you mad. Either way works for it.

7) You would actually be helping Esther uncover the mysteries of the Occasus and their connection to the Ruin as you progress through the game's "campaign," and you would do it by carrying out sequences of actions that make a bit more logical sense. For example, she might tell you to go talk to some random Florans about a rumor she heard about strange-looking slime monsters appearing on the Floran homeworld. Talk to several random Floran NPCs with quest markers over their heads, and you'll learn that the Ixodoom has been acting unusually aggressive, leaving its territory frequently to deposit eggs everywhere. It turns out that the creature has been infected with some sort of giant parasitic amoeba that's been influencing its mind and using its egg-laying mechanism to distribute its own young on the Floran homeworld. After you kill it, the amoeba seeps out of its mouth and dies. By obtaining and researching the nucleus, you uncover a memory stored in it, which indicates that something of importance is in the Grand Pagoda Library. Do a bit more sidequesting, and you find out how to reach the library. Once you're there, S.A.I.L informs you that it's picking up the presence of a life-form that seems to contain a genetic structure very similar to the amoebic beast. Once you reach the old boss room, you'll encounter one of the Ruin's humanoid-spawn instructing several Occasus initiates on what "The Great Ancient" desires of them. You're spotted immediately, epic battle ensues, you report back to Esther and she tells you about some connection that she found. You get the picture.

I mean sure, it's not entirely original, but I definitely think it's better than "do a bunch of things to make some people like you so that you can get their stuff and save the day."

 

Well that's a lot of difference right there. I hope there would be racial interaction for the sake of establishing friendly relations/helping out, and not just to further your quest against the ruin.

 

The Occasus wear purple because the Protectorate's color is yellow. Purple and yellow are complimentary colors on opposite sides of the color wheel. They go well together, and stand out when combined. As a side note, my initial draft of this post had all instances of "yellow" capitalized because I've gotten way too used to typing my own gamer handle.

If Occasus and their racism is to be a main focus, we kind of need the Protectorate or something like it. Maybe it's destroyed at the beginning like in the current story, or maybe your job in the story is to create it in the first place, but they represent the diametric opposite of the Ocassus philosophy.

Similarly, Asra or someone like her can be an important way to give us a window into Occasus. We can't dive into the individual histories of each cultist, but by getting to know Asra we can get a sense that these are people, not just faceless mooks.

Of course, this assumes that the Protectorate, Ocassus, and Asra get a lot more depth than they're currently given.

No worries, it was pretty clear that you just had the same thought. I didn't think you copied me.

 

I genuinely fail to see how stuff like this would improve the story at all.

 

Well for one, it would connect the sequence of events by at least a tiny thread of coherent information which the player could follow to the same conclusion as the characters, rather than just saying "You found the Floran artifact? Good. Now go find the Hylotl artifact, and do it by scanning furniture until I suddenly know where it is."

 

1 thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is the Novakid lore. They took out all the starting codexs, which means that the Novakid anatomy might not be cannon. I think this is one example where the lore was dummed down. Please feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, I'd love to see the Novakid's starting codex in 1.+

 

You found the Floran artifact by researching Floran culture and participating in their traditions, then you find Hylotl artifact by doing the same with Hylotl culture... and since your objective is to unite all of the artifacts, you do it one by one for each of the six races, by visiting their settlements.

Most major clue objects are actually deeply connected with the mission's location, including but not limited to tracking a signal of a Miniknog camera, analyzing Avian inscriptions, researching Hylotl literature... There's five such major objects for Florans, Hylotl, Avians, Apex, and Glitch each - you can see it all for yourself, if you want.

It is all much more coherent information than "lol some weird amoeba led me here"

Novakid never had any codexes, beta or otherwise. The only codex that mentions Novakid is currently in the game as a contest winner, not even written by Chucklefish.

Novakid themselves are a contest winner, anyhow. There were some write-ups by their original creator, but those are not necessarily wholly canon for Starbound. When it comes to anatomy, as far as I can tell, they're gas-bag people held together by some sort of membrane, with their brand being a particularly vital part of them, and the only thing that remains of them when they die.

 

I would say the Glitch Hivemind was probably not a literal hivemind, more like "The Khala" from StarCraft lore. The Glitch think for themselves, but are "connected" to all the other glitch in the hivemind, able to sense each other's true thoughts and emotions. Essentially there are no secrets between glitch in the hivemind (which really needs a new term).

Also, someone brought up the subject of "The Would-Be King". Those codexes don't really hint that the society being talked about is a hivemind. Could be an outcast colony trying out their own semblance of society. According to the wiki, the codexes are still in the game as well.

That said, I've been thinking about this lore, particularly the Apex and Glitch (and Novakid to a lesser extent). And here are some theories I quickly jotted down as short notes.

 

All beta codexes indicated them as a literal hivemind, examples including the well-folded note, or a to-do list, among others. They used to be less of a medieval society and more of a monotonous collective, not unlike the Borg. They didn't have "thoughts and emotions", and they didn't even have "each other", since none of them could be considered "individuals" to begin with.

Currently, simulation-bound Glitch are instead just simple medieval folk, completely oblivious of their true nature. No mentions of any "hivemind" in sight, just a regular medieval society. Only a very tiny portion of the Glitch has achieved self-awareness, and those who did are believed by their fellows to be insane.

Those books used to identify those Glitch as hivemind-bound specifically. They were heavily rewritten since beta.

There are depictions of Apex prior to the change to their species, which do not seem to be human. It's said that they used to be similar to humans in appearance, but they were definitely not humans.

Glitch were engineered as an experiment to simulate a civilization, not to act as an army. These two are completely different, unrelated goals, none of which serves the other. Creators of the Glitch are meant to be far more ancient, it's simply not feasible for Apex to be in any way involved. There are also ancient ruins of other robotic civilizations that were not halted in progress.

Please get a better grasp on the canon lore before you make any more theories... Pretty much everything you said is blatantly wrong.

 

Valid point about the florans, but not really true about any of the others. We don't participate in hylotyl culture, we go to an abandoned library and work with a random librarian. We bluster our way through an Avian temple and beat up their god, but somehow wind up with that god's acolyte on our side. We randomly appear in an ongoing apex battle and beat up a hologram while leaving the Minestry of Knowledge intact. And we show up to the castle of a washed-up glitch nobleman and fend off the Occasus. None of these really connect us to the cultures, we're just artifact hunting.

I suppose certain objects like maps or bookcases make sense as containing clues, but that's not at all obvious in-game, and id doesn't change the fact that we're scouring the galaxy looking for furniture. I can see scanning a map, but why would scanning a random suit of armor help? And why are we spending all this time looking for specific items of furniture when we can just ask people?

 

Actually, some NPCs will talk about those missions, and their dialogue also gives you clue points, so there's that.

 

True, but it says something about the effectiveness of the execution that I completely forgot that was a thing. I mean, the last time you visited another town, do you remember more about the people you talked to or their furniture? The idea is that we're gradually forming another little Protectorate, should't we be a bit more interested in the people we meet?

 

You still have to research their culture in order to find where the library is, which, considering the value Hylotl culture seems to place on history, is pretty fitting.
The Player never gets to kill Kluex. It's just a crystal robot not unlike the other ones in the temple.
The Player doesn't attack anything exactly resembling a major stronghold, and why would the Miniknog leadership be personally in a random military structure? They don't have to be physically there, specially not if it's even slightly vulnerable to rebel attack.

 

Well, the Miniknog stronghold was still an important target, so I wouldn't say it's insignificant. It is a step towards taking down Miniknog, we just don't get to personally confront anyone who's really part of the ruling council. Even if one of them was there, they'd have evacuated before we reached the mansion, or maybe even before we arrived, considering the rebel attack.

Similarly, we don't exactly fight Kluex - rather, we challenge a crystal golem, modeled as his avatar. Whether there's more significance to that specific automaton is up to individual interpretation, but since warrior's strength is one of the tenets of the Kluex faith, it could be that Tonauac sees our fight as us proving ourselves before Kluex.

Ultimately, each of the races has forgotten the significance of their artifacts, which makes acquiring them easier. Our quest would go down quite differently if larger governments dedicated more resources to protecting them.

 

Honestly, I thought that Hylotl would get along very fast with the Grounded. Both PCs don't insult each other furniture that much. NPCs of one race have mostly nice unique lines to the other race. Hylotl like culture and art, Avians have culture and art that may interest them... Anyway... Glitch PC is ridiculously snarky toward Hylotl themed stuff, dunno why.
Floran PC seems a bit too murderous for a Protectorate member. Bad Greenfinger figure maybe? Floran NPCs seem a bit... friendlier.