Law & Consequences

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by Tetsuo, Sep 24, 2013.

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Should a system of law be implemented into the civilization structure of Starbound?

Poll closed Oct 24, 2013.
  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    63.2%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%
  3. I do not care

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%
  1. Tetsuo

    Tetsuo Aquatic Astronaut

    So, given the state of Starbound, whilst built of the most exuberant qualities, seems to lack a very important factor that is of absolute importance in a galactic environment.. Law.

    Now, I did notice and enjoyed the teasers of the prison dungeon posted by the devs, but it really begs the question.. could we end up in that prison?

    Therefore, I believe it should be a solid part of the game that there be a system of law and consequences for civilized sectors/planets of the Starbound universe. I.e. you attack someone in a city or town on some planet under the protection of the Galactic Police. Then, based on the heresy of your acts (whether it range from petty theft to murder) the GP will assemble an enforcement team to take you down or arrest you. Think of a Grand Theft Auto styled "wanted" system.

    This could inspire a style of gameplay that either makes a player not want to grief an entire city/temple/planet or makes them want to decidedly thieve, secretly, or kill someone/something behind the scenes, or invest in a galactic pyramid scheme to get rich quick. Idk.

    The point is adding an in-game system of guidelines in addition to such pre-set civilization structure to keep a player from absolutely ruining or griefing or destroying or raiding or just obliterating an entire planet without consequences. If you eradicate an entire race on their home planet, you should be charged for it, no?

    Any thoughts?
     
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    SuggestionsBot Autonomous Posting Device

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  3. Lorgarmor

    Lorgarmor Subatomic Cosmonaut

    So do you think of general laws that are the same no matter where you are? Or should at least every race (if not every planet) have their own laws due to the differences between them? The GTA system is kind of easy since you only have a (small) town or landscape where all laws are the same of course. But in a huge universe/galaxy, how could a galactic overall police department be funded and organized?

    Maybe each race and maybe some large organisations that have a lot of influence in the galaxy, could have their own wanted lists. If you perform illegal (whatever this means for each race/organisation) actions, you get a level on the corresponding wanted list. If you enter an area where the police of the list you have a level at is present, they chase you and you are charged for your crimes if they get you. If you leave the area before they reach you, you are not chased further until you return.

    But: If you are caught and charged, there are some points that are important to discuss with respect to the constant playability.
    A player that is caught can be punished by the law, but how? If you are forced to remain in a prison, how long? The game can't force the player to wait helplessly until he gets out again, the possibility to break out would only end up in an increased level in the wanted list. Capital punishment would also be senseless if you simply respawn somewhere.

    So in the end, there must be some punishment types for the player that are comprehensible as well as giving them some short termed negative effect. I would think of losing some money/items/skills. Maybe their ship computer is reseted and they have to find some coordinates again.
    (I liked for example the possibility in TES 4. If you are imprisoned you have the option to simply wait your time, which is passed immediately but you have lost skill points due to your inaction)

    I think a well made implementation of such a system is very difficult.
     
  4. SPOOKS80

    SPOOKS80 Pangalactic Porcupine

    I like this, it adds even more depth to the game :)
     
  5. Blankness

    Blankness Void-Bound Voyager

    They have stated the any and all consequences will be planet wide if at all.
     
  6. xalar

    xalar Big Damn Hero

    or if you harass or attack enough villagers, they will mobilize to attack you at the same time or flee. taking with them their knowledge, guidance, and quests with them.
     
  7. Zoolot

    Zoolot Existential Complex

    Getting thrown into a jail would be a pain in the ass. Short, plain and simple.
     
    Jonesy and DeadlyLuvdisc like this.
  8. jintoya

    jintoya Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    i agree that getting tossed in the brig would suck! on the other hand, it would be nice to be a bonafied space pirate, outrunning the law. there would be plenty of good and bad reasons to have a law enforcement system in this game. one being greifers, another being to help deal with irritating stray monsters/baddies although i think instead of having to a wait in a cell, a hefty monetary fee or loss of the accumulated XP to next lvl (Skyrim did this and it kept me out of jail)
     
  9. venum4k

    venum4k Subatomic Cosmonaut

    I would vote for this if somewhere there is a planet where all the law enforcers say "Stop right there criminal scum!" if you break the law.
     
    Owl24 and Jonesy like this.
  10. xalar

    xalar Big Damn Hero

    Escape Velocity had a NPC named Captain Hector that would attack you on sight screaming to the coms, "Prepare to be destroyed, shareware-paying scum!" or something like that.

    Attacking enough npcs ought to make them attack you on site.
    btw, calling for guards is confirmed.
     
  11. Gene

    Gene Phantasmal Quasar

    Many space simulators have multiple races, and the player has a standing reputation with each race. Attacking one race brings down the reputation with that race (and any of their allies) while raising reputation with their enemies. Conversely, helping that race such as doing their missions raises the reputation with that race (and any of their allies), but reduces the reputation with their enemies.

    For starters (assuming races don't have any diplomatic relations with each other), we can just treat each race's reputation independently from that race, with your actions only having consequences for that race's planets. Later, if and when Starbound does have wars/alliances between races, we can go to a more complex relationship.

    An example UI would look as follows:

    race_reputation.png

    The way that race members treat you will be based on your reputation.

    Positive reputation:
    • > 0%: Get low-complexity missions, sell your gear to shops, buy low-quality gear
    • > 30%: Get medium-complexity missions, buy intermediate gear
    • > 60%: Get high-complexity missions, buy advanced gear, hire temporary allies
    • > 90%: Get super-high complexity missions (e.g. bosses), buy elite gear, hire permanent allies
    Negative reputation:
    • < 0%: Boycotted by shops and quest givers
    • < 30%: Attacked by posted guards
    • < 60% Attacked by posted guards, additional (stronger) guards summoned
    • < 90% Attacked by posted guards, many additional (strongest) guards, and all other NPCs of that race.
    Beyond long-term reputation, there will be short-term reputation that does not translate to long term, but only happens during your visit to a planet. For example, attacking guards will immediately cause them to attack you, but won't necessarily drop your reputation to -30% right away, so if you quickly escape and come back, the guards will be pacified once again. However, if you stay and keep slaughtering guards, your long term reputation will continue dropping.

    There can also be independent 3rd-party diplomats and hackers found on neutral planets, who (for a fee or quest) will improve your reputation with a faction. For a sufficiently hostile faction, this may be your only way to get back to being liked by them, since they won't offer you any missions to improve your reputation directly.
     
    Passarbye and Exxil3d like this.
  12. xalar

    xalar Big Damn Hero

    Every game where I see a simple they like you or hate you seems odd. I propose a different approach based on fame, reputation, and predictability. The higher fame you have the more people will recognize you. Good if you want an honest living, bad if you want covert missions. reputation is your common ground of like and hate, and predictability is where the fun is. The more you contradict your reputation or fame the more the people don't know how you will act. If you have high predictability then people expect you to carry out the mission, and if you have low predictability then they expect you to find alternative solutions to the problem. Which would drastically alter available missions.

    I currently have no idea how this would look on a chart without taking up a lot of space on screen like Gene's diagram.
     
  13. Gene

    Gene Phantasmal Quasar

    While a good idea in theory, I'd be careful to not try and overcomplicate reputation management in Starbound. I don't think reputation should be as highly developed in Starbound as it would be in a traditional space simulator game, because Starbound has so many other core mechanics. I think reputation is a supporting rather than core feature of Starbound, and as such should be left reasonably basic and simple.

    Same thing with other aspects like Economy. I would like some basic economy to exist in Starbound, but I wouldn't like it to become a stock trader simulator. ;)

    Just my opinion, of course.
     

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