I think I figured out why guns are a bit too weak.

I've found plenty of guns that do over 2k damage per shot as well, but they tend to have really low attack speeds and insane energy costs, and still can't very effectively kill more than one enemy at a time. In threat 10 worlds, plenty of monsters have 5000-7,200 hp. Assuming Wurmheart is right, we get roughly 5k damage out of 500 energy. So we need 3 rocket launcher hits to kill something unless we get a really low attack speed rocket launcher, either way it'll take all of our energy ~and more~ for one monster.

Then again, I've also got a hammer with lightning that hits for over 6k per hit, assuming the lightning also hits. Over 5k even if it misses.
Do I want to have a guaranteed one-shot against a monster with my hammer, or spend all of my energy (sacrificing mobility) to maybe kill it with a gun?

Guns should honestly be a lot stronger in Sci-fi games than swords, our characters aren't Jedi.

....My band-aid fix is pretty nice though, just cut down energy costs scaling by 5% per tier, so 5% less at tier 1, 50% less at tier 10. Didn't buff damage, and removing the mini-mod just puts energy back where it was. It's pretty nice being able to shoot a bit more.

 

That's only true for base guns found in regular chests. Dungeon drops are often far more efficient damage per energy. Also you recharge energy as your firing so you should be able to kill an enemy without waiting to recharge. Guns are the only way to go in several high level dungeons as you can't use 2H weapons as you need a shield.

Also guns can be used to easily weaken enemies to finish with a broadsword, which is probably the easiest way to kill normal enemies.

All problems with guns are symptomatic of bad aim/strategy.

 

I've scrounged around a lot and found some decent guns, my aim is fine, I can land most of my shots, guns aren't terrible.

But they're not in a great spot either. Regardless of who can make them work, or got lucky and found a great gun.
I mean, my main gun is a pulse rifle, it isn't awful, but it's still only a third as effective as any melee setup, nice against bosses at least.

 

It's not about the damage per shot though, it's about the total output. And that's the problem with guns. They don't have an equivalent to impervium tier. They stop at rubidium. The highest you're going to get out of any gun is ~1600 dps (which is how weapon damage levels are figured, by the way). An Impervium Axe does 4500 dps. DPS, not damage per swing. That's nearly triple the strength of the best gun you can find. It doesn't take much to see a problem with that.

 

i have a few guns that are 2100+ dps. the only viable guns ive found are grenade launchers. i currently use a 1269dps legendary one that owns.

 

negative. guns, like everything else, are not balanced in the slightest. all values are arbitrary placeholders.

 

Heh. Remember that build with the super-aggressive birds who could kill you in one shot?

They weren't imbalanced. Clearly the only problem was symptomatic of bad aim/strategy.

If we can box-in enemies, maybe we should just ignore balance and tell people to "git gud".

Wait a sec... No way! I reject that! It makes no sense at all!

The balance of ranged/melee combat also depends on mob and boss AI, among other things. It is a complicated and multifaceted issue. However, nobody should ever say "you're just bad at the game" if they're having difficulty with a certain strategy or play style. That is insensitive to how these issues can create barriers to other people enjoying the game. If ranged combat is much more difficult to master but gives an extreme advantage at higher skill levels, then care should be taken to find ways to even that out. How can the advantage be diminished at higher play levels, and how can the skill barrier be lessened? These are questions that I'm sure Chucklefish will eventually address someday. However, I expect that day is a long ways off. There are higher priorities.

At the very least, provide instruction on how to be a ranged combat expert instead of making bald assertions.

 

Show me a picture and maybe I'll believe you. Because chances are, that's a glitch. They simply cannot go that high otherwise. T10 doesn't have a high enough multiplier for the base DPS stat ranges on all guns. And FYI, Grenades, Rockets, and Snipers have the *lowest* possible range. ~15% lower in fact.

 

But only half of that is right, though.

Ranged combat is much more difficult to master, but doesn't give an advantage. . . of any kind. It may be possible to get good with guns, but it's kind of like getting really good at Dan Hibiki in Street Fighter. Sure you can probably, some day, get good enough to win the game. Maybe even to beat up the people who hang out at the local mall, but you'll never win a tournament with Hibiki and you'll have spent a whole lot more effort and had a much harder time doing it than someone using any other character.

@braydon is just being generally ridiculous. Guns are awful in dungeons, too. Use a one handed sword--you'll have generally higher DPS and not use energy. Energy doesn't regenerate while blocking so 'riot shield' game play doesn't make guns more viable, it merely makes their inherent flaws more pronounced (damage per energy ratio is too low, and so is damage in general). If you even need a shield, which you don't. You can dodge most/all enemy attacks that you can get a shield up in time to block. It ain't hard.

 

The way I see it, guns are more situational than anything. At lower tiers a same-tiered weapon is great, at T10 you'll just be using em to cheese elites or for other gimmicks (plasma pistol for quick temporary light in caves, explody legendary assault rifle to quickly kill pets and retrieve capture orbs, also good for plinking weak enemies down that you want to capture). In the end you'll always want to carry one, but at the same time they can't make them as strong as melee because why melee when you can one shot stuff from a screen away.

Almost forgot. They're great (t10 guns) for raiding lower tier planets for surface loot! Honestly though, if your gun was able to easily kill stuff, why melee?

 

You can actually do this much faster by making a two-three block gap at sword swinging height and stabbing through your cheese wall than shooting.

Not worth an inventory space for how rare that situation is. Flashlight and/or lamp on a stick work better most of the time.

Only actual legitimate use of guns (other than one specific grenade launcher type).

Easier to do with a lower tiered melee weapon, honestly.

Why? The only thing I can think of is birds, but even birds are easier with a two-hander once you have a decent flight capable tech.

The way energy consumption is now, you totally could because at the current damage to energy ratio you'd use a full energy bar per shot if they were as powerful as equivalent melee weapons.

 

2k+ guns are fairly easy to obtain. I've got a 2.1k with about 16% more eficency than normal.

@krylo
Have you ever played the game? Seriously you just ignore every argument for using a gun and then say there's no reason. We've given you tons of reasons. Have you ever melleed your way through a top level penal colony or floran prison? I seriously doubt you've ever played a top tier dungeon with the claims you make. You can't possibly stab at a group of 3 florans/prisoners without getting hit, there are no gaps to attack.

 

never used a shield, eh?

even then, tanking the fire and oneshotting with the impervium hammer is usually faster.

 

If you think this is the case, you are either looking at the wrong statistic or playing with mods. In either case, this still isn't accurate. I've strip-mined dozens of t10 asteriod fields and never once found a gun much above 1600 *DPS*.

 

Back to wall, shield up, lightning throwing one handed sword, time your strikes, to knock them back as they come at you. If you mess up and let them get in close enough to start hitting you you might have to take a blow from ONE of them to knock them all back. It's cool, though, you can heal forever. Easiest way using only weapons.

Shield up, ranged pet out just behind you. Easiest way using more than just weapons.

Two handed weapon + Backpeddling/dodging and a burger now and then. More difficult method, but faster.

Also, penal colonies are the easiest dungeons, and there are gaps to hit because enemies won't strike at you until they're WITHIN their weapon's range. They aren't smart enough to swing while moving in, so you can hit them with the edge of your weapon as they close.

Easily.

With a group, you, like I said, have to backpedal.

Edit: When you jump over them, or drop down floors, etc. they also leave openings when turning to face you/when you're coming down on them.

 

T10 avian dungeon. just got a 2326dps and a 2040dps avian blaster. tell me how to screenshot it and i will. everytime i SS while hovering over the weapon it doesnt show the weapon box in the picture. and i dont run weapons or loot mods.

 

The specific legendary grenade launcher is actually one of the more powerful weapons if you have a good aim, its just a hit or miss thing. I know they have a lot of kinks to work out, but I hope they don't make the guns too overpowered. If you have a good rare plasma pistol/rifle though, it is worth the slot imo. Don't have to waste a torch, still have an offensive weapon equipped, and has much bigger radius than a flashlight or lantern on a stick. Great for checking deeper holes for chests on the fly, esp if you're doing in in a low tier world and can use it as your main weapon.

 

I found a 1-handed dagger with 7k damage.

 

Okay now that was modded.

 

press the "print screen" key, open the image editing program of your choice (ms paint works) and paste the contents of the clipboard (usually control + v). crop, if you like, save as, then upload to host of choice.

yup. plus a slap from a hammer has great knockback. against humanoid enemies, i tend to get them stunlocked with knockback. aside from assorted legendaries, i dont know why anyone would use anything other than an impervium hammer.