The Avian guards in at least one of the tower dungeons actually have unique, Avian-style guns that visibly use resonance gems as a power source. They're the most immersive set of equipment used by any NPCs in the game. The Avians have a VERY high tech level despite appearances, even the Apex have yet to figure out how the avian resonance crystal tech functions, but they make everything from flying temples, to plasma rifles out of them. The Avians are anything but primitive, despite their adherence to traditional architecture and clothing styles. They may well be the most advanced of all the humanoid races
That explains everything! Haven't read up on racial lore yet. Another thing is what they're wielding as they fight you should at least be available as drops. Unless the guns themselves are not usable for people outside the cult or something.
What's immersion breaking for me is not necessarily that the avians have guns, but rather that they are so advanced looking but effectively useless against a guy wearing some of the worst protection available. Edit: Oh, also as Murderatte's points out, not dropping them when they die.
"Guns will be what you use end game because range and tech advantage. Melee should be obsolete end-game." Yeah, a lot of good that gun will do you when I Blink behind you with an Impervium Spear. I agree Guns need a buff. That's why I've installed the StarSide 2 mod, because the guns there are beyond Impervium Tier and are actually effective. But in then end, both Melee and Ranged have pros and cons, and I'd like it to stay that way. Just give guns a damage boost, just so that rarer ones match craftable Impervium tier Melee, and I'm fine with that. Saying that Guns should out-perform Melee end-game because they "are more technologically advanced," is silly. Melee has a place, like it does IRL, and that (to me,) is how it should be. Also, while the prospect of different armors being better against different damage types sound nice, I fear it might overcomplicate things. I like having a relatively simple armor system, but then again, just my two cents.
Multiplayer PVP is a non-issue to me, and I think to most people a side issue. I could be wrong of course, I just don't see the entire game being balanced around it. Ramses there brings up a good example of secondary balancing forces at work that could make melee useful, even if guns had their damaged equalized.
I agree with the Multiplayer PvP. It's a side issue, and I'm just bringing it up because if history serves us right, a hardcore PvP sub-community will exist in Starbound, even if the game isn't designed around it. And, let me make my point concise: A sword alone will lose to a gun, but a sword assisted by some Secondary tech (like Targeted Blink and Energy Dash) makes the "range" argument moot.
PvP will eventually be the reason why people will play online after all the single player content are exhausted. I have already provided evidence that games like minecraft most popular servers all revolve around PvP and factions even if minecraft is suppose to be focused about building. If you want guns to feel powerful in singleplayer, just suggest about giving NPC unobtainable guns that are more powerful than normal while also taking bonus damage from ranged weapons to form the illusion of guns being powerful while still balanced in PvP.
Let me give you a short history of the arc of this thread, I began by saying you shouldn't run into NPCs with guns that are basically useless against you just charging at them and absorbing their shots, but rather that guns you find should be as able to do damage as melee weapons. That led to having to argue that having guns be generally "better" than melee would be fairly realistic, which led to a fight over balance as a concept, which led to dickering about what better meant, heh. All I really care about is that guns should do reasonable damage. If this unbalanced the game and made guns generally preferable in the end-game, that wouldn't really bother me. If instead there were secondary balancing affects like blink that gave melee a boost, that also would not bother me. Er...well if they are balancing them for PVP, just make the adjustments to PVP, not to he game itself (though, I guess same effect, so whatever). PVP may extend the lifetime of the game, but does it need to be extended? I would argue it does not. A good single player experience will keep bringing in new players. A good PVP experience just extends the play of people who have already played the game. Yet again, I'm not saying that Chuckfish should ignore PVP entirely, but I really doubt they're creating and balancing the game with an eye on PVP as the main event.
Which is why I suggest that we simply create an illusion of guns being powerful only on singleplayer mode. That way we keep immersion ingame for guns enthusiast while also keeping PvP enthusiasts happy.
Sorry, your post jumped in as I was responding to Ramses, see the edits above for my response to your post.
You sound like someone who prefers melee. Why? because that doesn't add balance or variety that is basically making guns as strong as melee and dividing guns. I don't see what would be changed and while guns might end up better that would not satisfy anyone who likes melee
You can do it either way but it is much simpler if you balance the weapons with PvP in mind and just adjust the guns to be more effective with or against NPC. If I were a developer, I would always think about extending the life of my game so that people will feel their money is worth it and will recommend others to buy it. I feel Chucklefish does think about PvP balance which is why racial difference combat wise are so minimal because they don't want players picking only the race with the strongest combat traits and ignore the others.
We can leave it to the programmers which is easier, that's not a problem. Maybe it's just me, but when I finish a single player experience I really enjoyed, if there is PVP, I'll play that, but if there isn't, I'll move on with my life. In either case, it'll be the single player experience that I'll talk to my friends about. It's certainly just a point of preference though.
Gotta agree with Fromage on this one. Guns come with the steep tradeoff of energy consumption, which severely limits your mobility, AND limits your damage output by stopping the fire when you run out. Ontop of their poor damage output, this makes guns pretty useless in their current state. ...well, not *useless*... I have a plasma shotgun on my action bar that shoots six or so bouncy, glowing balls, and it does a MAGNIFICENT job of illuminating tunnels, but I don't think their utility as a flashlight is really a factor here. All you really have to do is compare a pros and cons list for melee vs guns, and the imbalance becomes pretty obvious... GUNS: Pros: - Range - Flashlight, depending on type. Cons: - DPS - Sustained damage limited to a few seconds of continuous fire - Renders tech abilities (and the mobility they provide) useless, do to their competing need for energy MELEE: Pros: - DPS - Sustained damage for as long as you keep your finger on the button - No energy consumption, allowing for use of tech items for full mobility Cons: - Generally short range, although most of the green+ melee items produce a projectile, allowing for a comfortable medium range. - Generally not useful as a flashlight. So, I'd say increase the DPS of guns, to the point that they can take down a mob, or maybe two with 100% accuracy before running out of energy. This would probably require a HIGHER DPS than Melee, but since melee weapons don't run out of energy, causing their DPS to come screeching to a halt, that seems fair to me. TL;DR, Guns should be viable burst-weapons that limit mobility. Melee should be viable sustained-damage weapons that allow you to bounce around like a squirrel on crack.
