Gamers without skill unite!

Let me warn you that the following tends to be polemic and should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt. But still I'm serious - sort of.

I fear that in the long run Starbound could be engrossed by players who are really good at it. Those who are terribly anxious about things being too easy. Those who don't want a game where people might be successful without having their level of skill because that would be unfair. Their skills must be good for something. They want to be rewarded, and they don't like to share their reward with loosers. They happily die a couple of times for the adrenaline rush before they can proudly say that after all it's an easy fight once you know the scheme. They are normal people who really can't understand why anybody might want a game that doesn't at least try to frustrate you. Where's the fun in not being kicked in the balls at times?
I'm getting the impression that many people feel like that (more or less), and I'm sad and lonely because I'm not one of them. I'm slow and keep hitting the wrong buttons when things get hot, and I hate bossfights for the most part of my life (and in the game!).
I want to win because I make clever decisions, because I learned how things work, but not because I'm able to perform something difficult with my keyboard. Back in the days of Doom, Quake and HL I used to have good reflexes and I liked utilising them. But now I'm old and couldn't care less about proficiency with control devices (that's also why I suck at dogfights and need to live on trading in 3D space games).
Don't get me wrong, basically I don't mind fighting at all. Heroes fight, that's just the way it goes. Like every healthy person I enjoy being badass in New Vegas, Dunwall or even Whiterun, but that's not really a question of manual dexterity.

Now I hear somebody say "Then don't try to play a platformer! Fire up some turn based strategy game and leave us alone!".
Well, I never considered Starbound a platformer (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it). It's a game about exploration, mining, crafting, building and some fighting which technically uses platforming design elements. And it sure is quite good at that, I might add.

Oh, now there's another voice in my head saying "What are you talking about? There will be alternative progression paths for the elderly, be patient, this is a beta etc.".
Hmm... sure, maybe some day. But I wasn't saying I'd like to be a farmer either. It's bigger than that! I want the unskilled gamers to rise and fight (ha!) the menace of the leet crowd! Let's close our ranks and drive the good players back to where they belong: to all those games I probably don't know about, to those which really hurt!

 

Yeah good luck with that impossible quest of yours

 

it does seem to be getting tougher as development goes on. hopefully the other paths will still allow some exploration and things, so you'll get to feel like you're doing a bit of adventure, and get to slice up some aliens before you come home to the range and pet your space cows. i'm supposing that the alternate paths can skip the bosses entirely. i hope you keep having fun with this game as its the most adorable thing ever.

 

If this is about the crystal boss in the mining facility...

Did you get a shield? Do you know how to use it? Do you know about the split-second invulnerability on shield activation?
Did you get at least two tech cards to unlock double-jump and dash? More possibly if you explored all the planets in your system.
Did you eat any speed/jump/health modifying foods before the fight?
Did you bring enough bandages/kits/stim paks?
Did you bring green stim paks for the run speed boost? (Not sure if that stacks with food boosts)
Did you equip the highest possible tier of armour going into the fight?
Did focus only on flipping the switches and activating the laser?

Doing these things will make it much easier. I won't disagree that it's much harder and punishing than the bosses you meet later on, but it doesn't seem impossible. They can do a lot to make the ordeal less painful (waypoint before the door is a big one that shouldn't be hard to implement), but it's still quite do-able if you asked or looked for tips.

 

Too bad the game does nothing to tell you about these options before fighting the boss.

 

That's a double-edged sword issue. Do you want to be handheld every step of the way in a game that promotes exploration and experimentation? If so, imagine how long the tutorial would be if it explained the mechanices behind every single item that you can possibly run into. Just be glad this game exists in rather than 20 years ago before everyone was on the internet sharing ideas/tips/information. Now you have the option to try to beat it without any outside information or help, but you can fall back on the internet if you're ever stuck on anything in any game with decent popularity/playerbase.

 

I didn't want to be that specific. I'm rather talking about a general mindset.

Well that's one of those skill things, see...

 

It's more of a glitch/reward for timing your blocks. You can still equip two shields and just hold the use/block button, but your shield will have to recharge (otherwise it would be overpowered). Even I'm not skilled enough to pull it off every single time. The shield is really only necessary for the third and final phase where the beams are impossible to dodge unless you're standing directly below/above the boss. The first phase is very easily dodgeable if you just move in the direction the beams are moving. The second one can be tricky as you only get half the space to move around in and the beams will change direction.

 

There is a way to present information outside of a wall of text. Games that drop subtle hints during their "tutorial" phase are the games I like, as it presents a challenge that can either be quickly bypassed if you are skilled enough/want to skip it, or if you are not so good at the game, the hints will be helpful for those that need it and are observant enough to notice it.

 

I think they just wanted to have a place to express their hope that the skill threshold won't end up excluding them from a game they like. these build and explore type games are often pretty casual and relaxing, and much of starbound too, is like that. so i can see the disconnect between parts of the game and why it could bother some players who came for one thing and got hit with another.

 

That's right.
However, let me point out that we have two things here:

1) an information the player can obtain (by means of eg. reading and/or thinking): a shield can be used in a certain way
2) a physical skill requirement: you must be able to control your game character very precisely to make your information useful

Unfortunately 2) is very hard to obtain if you don't happen to already have it, particularly once your neurons have already started to degrade.

 

(disclaimer: i have only gotten outside the starter area)


IMO

Starbound has done better then Terraria in regards to pointing the player towards progression.

However difficult it may be. Critical thinking must be applied in a variety of ways. The update brought many new game changing elements. (long past are the days of running a planets surface for ore, or dieing of starvation when you walk away from the screen)

It was finding the combination of these elements that equaled the solution I needed.

This was; Finding out the new recipes and buffs, learning from experience you should have more then one tech unlocked, learning what blocking is either with a shield or with a 2h sword. And learning the specifics of the dungeon itself through the many runs I took.

Finding this combination of elements to equal my solution was invigorating for me (I hate being handfed progression, I like sniffing it out). Any time I got stomped or defeated I sought an answer in game. This led me to explore, build and create and most of all READ everything. And in turn increased my experience of in-game applicability.


THE ONE THING!

A checkpoint before the 1st boss (or any boss really). For the love of god. I had a strategy devised by the 4th time i died. By the 10th time of completing the dungeon I finally killed the boss. The most time consuming part isn't the fight, it is scaling the whole dungeon again after you die. (I actually came back a day later and tried again because i got tired of running the dungeon)

 

Well I wasn't going to do this but I am bored out of my mind right now and this community pisses me off sometimes. So let's address most of your points here.

"I fear that in the long run Starbound could be engrossed by players who are really good at it. Those who are terribly anxious about things being too easy. Those who don't want a game where people might be successful without having their level of skill because that would be unfair."
So in other words you fear that people will want to play the game differently from yourself? I hate to tell you this but every game has both casual and hardcore fans, there is virtually no exception to this rule, it is up to the developers to decide how to plan and design their game based on how they want their game to feel. This being said, starbound is by no means a difficult game, although at the same time it isn't meant to be simply exploration and building. As evidenced by the immense combat gear, in addition to minibosses and tiered planets. You are supposed to be challenged to reach planets you won't be able to visit unless you're slightly skilled at the game.

"They want to be rewarded, and they don't like to share their reward with loosers."
Right off the bat, another generalization. A skilled player isn't limited to a certain mindset, I for one enjoy helping newer players progress past points that I once struggled with.

"I'm getting the impression that many people feel like that (more or less), and I'm sad and lonely because I'm not one of them"
Well first off, a majority of the forum community has left considering the unreasonable amount of time it has taken just to progress development in starbound thus far, I would bet that less than 10% of the original community still hangs around here, being a person who has followed the game since it was very first announced in development this is one of the only times i've been to the forum in the past year, but that's for another discussion entirely.

"It's bigger than that! I want the unskilled gamers to rise and fight (ha!) the menace of the leet crowd! Let's close our ranks and drive the good players back to where they belong: to all those games I probably don't know about, to those which really hurt!"
Maybe i'm nitpicking here but I don't see the point of what you're saying. If you're implying that somebody needs to conform to what you want starbound to be then here's a bit of bad news; you are just like the rest of us, all wishing for their little piece of the potential that is Starbound. You see anyone with an ounce of competitive viability as the enemy, someone who has a differing viewpoint from you to wrestle away your small piece of the game. I'm going to go ahead and be that guy, for all of the people who don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and gain a negative reputation from other people on the internet. The ironic thing about this post is that you are talking about newer players becoming interested in this game and ruining your experience, or somehow magically changing the development path, when in fact you are the person who is trying to change the game into what YOU want it to be, not the common good of the community. This is made obvious by the last statement in which you want to chase out other players who you don't agree with.

I could sit here and type a hell of a lot more than what I already did, but I get the strangest feeling this post will fall upon deaf ears, or in this case blind eyes.

 

Shasta, I get what you're saying, and I agree to a point. I also agree with the OP, in that I do stumble across lots of people in the forums that decry anything that makes the game easier, and that it can feel exclusionary to those that enjoy every part of the game other than the missions that are required to progress.

I feel that the developers will stay the middle path, making it require at least some level of difficult combat to progress but not make it impossible. If you want something different than that, I would suggest that you look into the mods that are available. I'm absoultely certain that someone will develop a mod to make the progression available through mining/crafting alone as there have been such mods in previous versions, just as there are mods that make the game more difficult; I have already seen that people have made mods to put the hunger and temperature rules back into the game, for example. I believe that the modding community is the great equilizer for the player base of this great game.

 

Which is fine, the part that got me was his general attitude toward what the game should be. Especially the last remark about attempting to single out and drive off anyone who doesn't play the game on a casual only basis.

That being said, while I love the modding community of almost any game, at the same time a game should gain a majority of it's development and entertainment from the base game. I am kind of worried how Starbound will turn out, on account of the developers using mods seemingly as a staple for content, rather than an addition onto existing gameplay. Reliance on the modding community could be seen as both a strength, and a weakness

 

No, not really. But I'm curious to see if someone would.

Indeed, that's part of what I tried to express.

Oh come on... you really took that literally?

 

I agree that the game should be enjoyable by itself without mods, but I feel that starbound is headed in a good direction. We can't necessarily expect them to cater to everyone though, and that's why they support the modding community so much; it eases the burden a bit, as the players can directly show the developers what they would like in the game.

Also, I took the OPs last statement as an attempt to be facetious, not as an attack

 

So tell me, you never answered my question. What was the point of creating this thread? If you aren't implying that your point of view needs to be heard, or that you are indifferent, and create only sarcastic remarks, why did you bother creating this? The way I see it, you don't seem to have any counter argument to what was presented, and are now falling back onto the "Oh guys i was just kidding all along! hahahaha!" But if you actually were joking (Which is unlikely given the fact that you expressed your fears beforehand about skilled players taking over the user base) then I would have to say that there is no concept of tone here on the internet. Creating a thread to complain about something, and ending with a facetious joke is probably not a good thing to do.

The last statement was interesting because even though it might be facetious, there are still many people that feel this way, and my response was more or less aimed at the general issue. If you get right down to it, all I see is a complaint that the game is too difficult.

 

What makes you think so? Of course I want my point of view to be heard, but to imply it needs to be heard is something different. As you said, it's a point of view among others.
It seems you are mainly bothered by the way I presented that point of view, and I'm sorry if my way of putting it offended you (or somebody else).

Counter arguments to prove what? That I am "right" in contrast to others who are "wrong"? I don't intend to do that. Again, you already said it: I'm just trying to get my share of Starbound's potential, as we all do.
You used the term "playing the game on a casual only basis" as if that was the counterpoint I wanted to set up against skill-based gameplay design, but that's not the case. Starbound is not Farmville. (Or "Starbound ist kein Ponyhof" for German readers )
There has always been a gap between players who find it thrilling to be taken to their limits when jumping around fighting and others who don't (or just can't do it good enough), and who like to find their challenge elsewhere. It's obvious that these extremes cannot be served perfectly in the same game, but Starbound leaves a lot of room to make great offers to both parties. On top of that there's the promise that additional progression paths will bridge the gap between the playstyles. So far, so good.
However I see the risk that the voice of particularly pugnacious players might tip the scales in favour of their style because

- it's simply a very common approach and could possibly sell better
- it can be easier to implement and maintain
- devs find it difficult to empathise with less skilled players because they belong to the skilled group themselves (hey, I'm not presuming this! But it's possible, even if they're not aware of it.)
- the skill-based approach is asked for more often, eg. because of demographic development in the community

Does that sound reasonable?