Game progression mechanics discussion.

I expressed my opinion as of why I think Starbound isn't going in the right direction. I think it's pretty much related to the lack of immersion, or the shallowness of the game concept :

http://community.playstarbound.com/...nts-with-starbound.61266/page-15#post-1666150

 

I find it weird how you can craft a grappling gun at the end of the game when you already have a bloody jetpack.

 

Yes I remember seeing that post. I don't think I read all of it (Jetlag induced migraine, hard to concentrate on large amounts of text.) but of what I did read, I agreed with, as it currently stands it feels more like a list of features without cohesion.

 

On my opinion, the Tier-based system should be totally eliminated.

Take some MMORPG games for example, such as World of Warcraft, Eve Online, Everquest, etc.

In those games, you can pretty much go everywhere on the map, without needing special items to unlock access to it.
But the further you progress, the enemies become more and more difficult.
Sure, you can make your way pretty far on the map if you try to avoid those monsters, but once you're detected and aggro'ed, forget it, you're dead.

In Starbound, this could be applied to planets. Some planets, such as Moons, Asteroids, Volcanic/Magma, Acid rain, Snow planets should require advanced gear to access them, such as heat suits, anti-radiation suits, advance cold wear, oxygen equipment, etc.

The player should have hard choices to make:

- Wearing a radiation suit (low armour points) to get on radiated planets vs Wearing that Impervium Chestplate (and dying, obviously).
- Wearing Heated Snowpants (and gaining temperature points) vs Wearing armored pants (but be stuck in carrying heat sources all the time with you)
- Wearing an Oxygen mask to explore moons and asteroids, but losing the armour points from the Steel Helmet you usually wore.

Aiming to have a 'full set' of armour makes the game redundant. And this is what the tier progression does. Players are obliged to gather enough resources to get the next full set of armour, only to do it all again for the next tier level. There is absolutely no fun in getting an Impervium armour compared to a Steel armour, because only your stats will change, but not your exploration/combat style.

Same with some items: There is not fun in crafting a gold pickaxe (plus the fact that it doesn't make sense) compared to having a copper pickaxe.

It would be more fun to have a diversity of tools, such as rock extractors (mines cobblestone and rock-like tiles faster), sand vaccum (mines larger areas when aimed at dirt, dust and sand tiles), mining lasers ( mines in a 1x5 row), liquid pump (extract liquid tiles), chainsaws, laser saws (can cut 2-3 trees at the same time - if they are close to each other), etc.

Having a diamond drill compared to a copper drill (lolwut?) is not exciting. It's basically changing the colour of your tool and having a slightly fast mining speed.

 

Yep you've hit the nail on the head. Honestly, I don't bother crafting any armour above Aegisalt. I just get the next upgrade chip, because there is no point to it, and I feel the game forces that playstyle on me because I have no incentive to even use the other armours, it just forcibly extends the dull grindy part of the game.

 

I read what was 17 pages worth of posts last night on that thread, I agree with your post %100 btw, and many others that posted their opinions. I was going to reply, but I went to sleep before I could (laptopping in bed). It was funny how many people posted "its in beta". I'm glad my wife likes starbound so I can get away with forum browsing in bed.

 

Yeah, you'll hear that a lot. (Even though technically speaking this is a public alpha.) While it is true people need reminding, since a lot of suggestions are of proposed features, many use it as a "this will most definitely be fixed, don't even" card, which is silly, because how are the devs meant to know what needs improving if we don't give feedback. Do they think the devs are psychic?

 

The "beta" is supposed to be a "skeleton", "the bones" of the game and "meat and flesh" aka "cool features" usually are added later. But what we see it's not "bones" it's a mess of mechanics (and some of it is clearly faulty) and features, half of them aren't necessary for a beta. Like skyrails? armors dyes? C'mon! Half of core mechanics is not there, but Devs adds this things? Like ppl saying, it seems Devs somehow lack "Vision" of the full game or in worst case scenario they had vision: old games they love, popular games in same genre, their own ideas joined together. But as they worked on the game - it turned out some game mechanics just don't work together, don't mix, like water and oil or don't work in particular situations or some ideas were great on the paper, like total planets and mob randomness but turned out not so great or very hard to make and balance in real life.

 

It's a shame that the thread was locked, it was one of the rare intelligent discussions.People need to understand that Chucklefish made over 1M$ with a game still in late Alpha (or beta, whathever), they are now far from the small-indie-developer-in-his-basement and it is normal that they receive criticism. They left the Amateur League and are now in the Minor/Medium League. Players need to push forward since this game was marketed as something more in-depth that what we see here.

There is a difference between a game Concept and Features.
Features, such as Techs, Dungeons, Biomes, Items and Ship Customization can be added on a regular basis, without affecting the game's overall experience too much.

Concept, on the other hand, is the way the game is meant to be played. The inner mechanics (tier progression, rpg elements, NPC interaction, goals and immersion) are the large concepts which will provide the gaming experience. This is not something that is easy to change on the spot, since it requires thorough thinking and planning. If you mess with one of the game's mechanics, you can unbalance the whole game, since there are many variables that interact with each other. And this is why some of us are worried that what we thought would be an amazing game will finally become an 'ok' game.

 

in defense of the Devs, just because something like armor dyes are in now, doesnt mean that they arent working on more important things. Some features are easier to implement than others.

I do agree with your other points though. I think its a mess of mechanics and a lack of focus. IMO, they shouldve focused on being a great mining game first (since thats what the engine is designed around) then add onto that. There is no reason for this to be behind Terraria in terms of gameplay at all. It should have left the gates a step or two ahead of that game, with upcoming improvements taking it leaps and bounds pass it. What we have now is a good game and bad RPG with content spread out amongst a multitude of worlds, making it feel shallow (even though there is A LOT to see). I do see it coming together within the next few years though, but i feel with a shaky core, it may fall a bit short of its true potential. That said- this is still a very good game and they are doing a great job. I think we all just want to see it become a genre defining game, because it definitely sounds that way in concept.

 

Exactly. I think the future of video games lies in Indie Game Studios. Large video game companies are now producing games for the mass market, resulting in games with a lot of visual candy but a huge lack of originality. Smaller studios, however, rely on originality and new games concepts aimed at a specific target group. Without Indie studios, we are stuck with unoriginal First Person Shooters and the never-ending 'The Sims' franchise.

This is why Indie game studios MUST succeed at making good games.

 

Yeah, i know, different ppl on the team are doing different things. I don't want to bash Devs in any way, but this way of doing thing actually led to game current state as it is. Some worked on mechanics, some on "features" but when time come to slap all thing together it turned out something just don't work, so we have

Actually, i think there are some:
Terraria have very "fitting" combat system, it works very well with mobs, bosses and progression. Whole game progress fells nice and fluid. Game "randomness" also is very good - each discovery is trilling, but at same time you know for sure - where is dungeon, jungle, loot from bosses etc., it takes a bit of time to find it.
On other hand in SB, combat system is total mess right now, mobs and NPC are dull (aside from bizarre looks) and it's really hard to make a random mob with interesting behavior and attacks. Progression is well... everybody understand how lacking it is right now. And world randomness severely restrict how loot and other stuff is distributed - you can't put some significant item randomly into dungeon - there is always a chance some unlucky person gonna seek for it on 30 planets.

100% agree. Terraria was like:"Look, looks! Games like this can be successful and fun, a lot of ppl buy and enjoy it!". And then Chucklefish come and said:"We had experience with Terraria, know it flaws, love old games, have some great ideas and concepts. Now we gonna make a 2-d sandbox which surpass Terraria by far!". Now we'll see how things turn out in reality.