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Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by EmperorTheBest, Jun 9, 2016.



  1. Yea. IT WAS AMAZING!!!

  2. I want also blink restored!

  3. No, there is new cool staff that replaces it.

  4. No, too overpowered.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. EmperorTheBest

    EmperorTheBest Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Hi, fellow starbounders.

    Today I came up with update where ftl boost with blink were removed. I WANT THEM BACK. Well, this can sound wierd but how does new boost system work? I haven't tried it yet to be honest. And is it only on nightly update? (As wiki says)
  2. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Blink was removed because it basically made every obstacle trivial to pass, especially challenge rooms. FLT dash was removed because it was lackluster. They simplified all the techs into 3, with upgraded versions of each.
  3. EmperorTheBest

    EmperorTheBest Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Well, then do these 3 techs fullfil the power of ftl boost? I mean there was nothing really inbalanced about ftl when they put a second cooldown on it.
  4. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Some swords have longer range dash alt abilities that fulfill the same effect.

    FTL dash was never really worth it because you could only use it on the ground and the terrain would mean you couldn't really dash very far. Jump-dashing is much more effective in covering ground fast.
  5. Ludovic

    Ludovic Giant Laser Beams

    From playing on nightly, the new Techs are as follow:

    Dash Techs:
    -Dash(starting tech): The dash we know, but usable on the ground only. However the tutorial mission used to unlock it shows how it can be of use later against the likes of traps found in Challenge Gates.
    -Blink Dash: Basically an upgraded Dash that allows you to dash through enemies and traps without damages. Can still only be used on the ground.
    -Air Dash: Like a regular dash, but can be performed in mid-air.
    -Sprint: Can only be initiated on dry ground. Actually cost energy to maintain but allows for a constant, well, sprint on ground at very high speed.
    You can even perform regular jumps without breaking the ability, which makes for a LOT of mobility. With Rocket boost(see below) helping with the taller
    cliffs, it makes exploring worlds quickly almost a joke, at least for the surfaces.

    Jump Techs:
    -Pulse Jump(starting tech)
    Upgraded versions:
    -Multi-Jump(three smaller additional jumps instead of the one huge pulse jump. I found the maneuverability useful for some bosses)
    -Rocket boost: Immobilizes the player in mid-air, letting you choose a direction(any direction) to the rocket boost away. VERY useful in
    exploration thanks to the range as well as for ranged fighter who can immobilize in mid-air to snipe one enemy before rocket boosting
    in the direction of their choice.
    -Wall-Jump: What it says on the tin, though I have yet to be experimented with it. Might be useful for ruins and dungeons explorers though.

    Distortion Sphere(morph ball) techs:
    -Distortion spehere(starting tech): Ye olde morphball.
    -Spike Sphere: A slower but spikes covered morphball which can climb walls.
    -Aqua Spere: A morphball variant able to float at the surface of water, for those who don't feel like buying a full boat. May not protect against toxic water
    though, unlike the boat.
    -Boost Sphere: Only one I've not tried out, but by holding the "morphball transformation" button, it can perform a high speed dash? I'm not familiar with it though.

    Personally I like the new system. It streamline the current amount of techs but in doing so offers "upgraded" versions of them for those who care enough to get them, the combination of which actually feels like really starting to "customize" your characters for the tasks at hand really. For example I have found the "rocket boost" tech to be really great for exploration and ranged snipers.... but to fare less well when fighting bosses in the cramped environment of a boss room(there were times I wished I'd brought the pulse jump when fighting Dreadwing because of the amount of times I got side-smashed by one of his UFO's sweeping ram attack catching me during the moment where I'm immobile in mid-air prior to boosting).
    The | Suit likes this.
  6. Kilowolf

    Kilowolf Big Damn Hero

    The new techs are lackluster to say the least. The new boost is almost useless and barely moves you an inch. At least FTL boost was useful and did was it was meant to do. Movement in the nightly feels too sluggish and slow. But I do agree blink was slightly op. I however have copied and saved all the stable files and i'm going to be doing some modding and adding some old techs back in when 1.0 hits :)
  7. Ludovic

    Ludovic Giant Laser Beams

    Personally, as others have stated, the new dash feels like it was less nerfed than repurposed. It's something that feels specifically meant for the type of traps found in challenge gates, as show right away in the dash mini tutorial, than something meant for pure mobility.

    Sprinting+Rocket Boost/Jump is currently fitting all my mobility needs.... even if it might not feel as appropriate for combat.

    Then again, a combo like Air Dash+Multi Jump feels like it was specifically tailored for combat maneuverability.

    Which is what I think has been the biggest change to tech: Specialization. They aren't one-size fit-all anymore where a tech will be the best option for BOTH combat and exploration. Some techs seems to have been redesigned to be specifically useful in one type of situation and less so in others.
    (I've actually rued the day I made the mistake of tackling Dreadwing with the Rocket Boost jump. I kept being slammed into when he was doing his sweeping attack because I would stop in mid-air when activating boost. Coming back to him later with multi jump, I felt I had much more control in dodging his attacks with jumps specifically because of how I could further jump up OR easily fall down to the ground below his sweep thanks to the low altitude of the multi jump individual jumps).

    Personally I don't mind the change.

    There are still options for explorations at fast speed.... they just aren't as overpowered anymore than bubble+dash momentum+double jump was.
  8. Fenrakk101

    Fenrakk101 Space Spelunker

    Does dashing give you i-frames in nightly? If not, I still consider it largely useless. You're much better off damage racing/spamming heals against enemies as opposed to actually avoiding their attacks.
  9. Ludovic

    Ludovic Giant Laser Beams

    The "blink dash" variant actually gives you the ability to dash safely through enemies.

    In fact here are all the "Dash" family skills(note that all of them, except for sprint, do not use energy anymore. Also note that only "Advanced" variants of the tech requires tech cards to unlock anymore; the default "Dash" tech, like pulse jump and morphball, is now unlocked with ore bars and a mini "tech tutorial" quest):

    Default Dash: Usable only on the ground. Merely does a sideway dash. Ability to occasional forward or back boost, you get it through the new "tech tutorial" for a cost of only 10 copper bars(meaning you don't need tech cards for the default tech anymore, only for the "advanced" versions).
    Said tutorial seems patterned around some of the timed traps you might encounter later within challenge gates, so might have been developped with those in mind since that tutorials could technically be considered a preview of those(I have def encountered later a challenge gate that was VERY much patterned on the same type of challenge).

    Blink Dash: Basically a combat-specialized version of the default dash. Usable only on the ground again, but allows dash/blinking through enemies and active traps without damage.

    Air Dash: A regular dash that can be used in the air. I don't recall how much momentum it retains anymore.

    Sprint: Basically what the name says. Instead of a conventional dash as we were used to, the character starts sprinting on the ground at high speed. What's more interesting with this variant is that it also allows for regular jumps while you are sprinting without breaking the actual sprint. Also interesting because such jumps will see sprint momentum carrying over.

    All other techs family see a similar structure: unlocking a default version via tutorial mission, then purchasing the advanced versions of the tech with tech cards.

    So jump techs are basically Pulse Jump, then Multijump/Wall Jump/Rocket Boost.

    And Distortion Spheres are now basically Distortion Sphere, then spiky sphere/aqua sphere/boost sphere(iirc)
  10. EmperorTheBest

    EmperorTheBest Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Talking about sword dashes

    I am a gunner, and no guns give you the ability to boost back and forth. The second thing is that monster charge at you much more faster then the boost dash they have. Thirdly, when you are too near to the monster it can charge at you and even if you succed well in dashing back, it'll charge again and still deal damage. Your boost just won't recharge again that fast. And last but not least,the monster can charge through you and back dealing lots of damage. You can't boost dash that because you can fail and boost in the wrong way. What for ftl boost is that it instantly teleports you so far, that no monster can get you. I've played stable a little bit. Ftl boost is still there.
  11. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Then dash forward over them. That is what airdash is for.
  12. EmperorTheBest

    EmperorTheBest Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    They turn back and dash again. Immediately, with no cd. You'd be dead in a second when there are two to four of them and you don't have new better armor yet. I don't even have a chance to shoot. And the airdash isn't yet charged to dodge again. Only way to double jump away. And airshoot.

    I don't say that the game is hard, it became TOO easy after the updates. (I got all bosses from the first run now, but before I died like 10 or 20 times) But the features, that were removed, were really useful. And features that are added... nah... Game is losing interest to me, unfortunatelly. Dying of stupid consequences and dying from lack of skill is very much different. First usually makes you rage, second lets you improve in playing the game.

    Well, I guess, I've gone too far from ftl boost, haven't I? :D Ok, so, in this case ftl boost can help you just warp out of the battle, so no one could hurt you. Then you get enough time to heal and shoot.
  13. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Then you must not be very good.

    Then the game just isn't for you. Not every game is fitting for everyone.

    As I mentioned before, that would only help on flat land or any incline that doesn't go up 2 blocks, otherwise you will stop dead in your tracks. If you managed to take off over a ledge, you would be stopped quite quickly, and likely take some fall damage.

    FTL dash was never very good.
  14. Fenrakk101

    Fenrakk101 Space Spelunker

    That is an incredibly lazy counterargument. By that logic, you could never criticize any game for any reason.

    If the complaint is that you die a lot for stupid reasons, that is a definite problem. The game is supposedly focused on exploration and construction, if the other mechanics like combat are very frustrating, then they're just getting in the way, and need to be adjusted. It's like a shooter demanding you be good at hacking minigames in order to progress.
  15. Ludovic

    Ludovic Giant Laser Beams

    To be honest, I actually don't mind the combat.

    I heard a comment about it in the past making that comparison and... looking at the way movement is handled, especially some of the movement techs in their current form but also movement speed and some of the physics.... the game DO remind me of Castlevanias.

    Except, you know, with crafting and "in spaace". Some of the boss certainly gave me the castlevania vibe more than anything I've seen outside of, well, actual metroidvania games. The fact that some of the instance dungeons are designed with areas specifically requiring such techs to access, potentially warranting the return once acquired, just further strenghten the impression I have that this is what was attempted with this game.

    Some people felt that movement in terraria was more "responsive", but at the same time the way it was handled(literally "sprinting" at the same speed backward than forward without losing accuracy/etc) never made much sense to me.

    With the more animated sprites of Starbound whose legs actually move in a way that sort of look like a jump, even arms following the movement one could expect when jumping up and then falling down with arms rising with the downward momentum of your fall... it all feels more satisfying.

    To me at least personally. It might not be everyone's cup of tea but it is mine.
    (also, seeing just how much enemy NPCs are increasingly capable of in Nightly, I am amazing by how the game is evolving. They already could use players-like weapons from the start, but I have encountered my first shields-using NPC lately and seeing an NPC do the whole "shield tanking" trick -I- was using on them in previous versions was surprising. Not only that, but I just watched a video where an Apex NPC even deployed a capture pod to summon a monster to his aid.

    At this rate, it's only a matter of time until they too start using healing items or even some basic techs of their own).
  16. Fenrakk101

    Fenrakk101 Space Spelunker

    Might not make sense, but it was a hell of a lot more enjoyable to actually play. Platforming in Starbound is an absolute nightmare, the controls are the hardest fight you'll face in the game. The controls are floaty, it's impossible to land precisely, it's impossible to get the exact jump height you need to make it through Apex trials without taking damage. Add on to that ropes/grappling hooks, which it doesn't seem you can keep at a specific length - you either zip all the way up or plummet all the way down, it doesn't seem like you can stop anywhere inbetween.

    Terraria might "make less sense" from a logical perspective, but from a gameplay perspective, Starbound's controls are counter-intuitive and get in the way rather than actually making things more fun.
  17. Ludovic

    Ludovic Giant Laser Beams

    And like I told you, even if you personally enjoy the other game's style of physics that is fine.

    But there are people who entirely prefer this one's way of doing things nonetheless. And I've never really had the problems you describes with ropes myself.

    You might dislike it, but for me... Starbound's way of doing things mechanically and visually IS more fun than Terraria. Especially when various movement items were feeling like they were increasingly added just for the sake of adding movement items without thematic care.

    I actually enjoy how streamlined movement techs have grown to become in Starbound. And ironically... it's encountering the boss in the Hylotl mission that made me further appreciate their place in the universe when I found myself suddenly facing a foe that herself made use of upgraded versions of all of these techs in her own attack patterns.

    It felt like facing Dark Samus in Metroid Prime Echoes, except this time it was in a 2D game.

    Edit: Heck, even just stuff like crouching made stuff like ranged combat incredibly more enjoyable for me in Starbound.
    In Terraria, a lot of the ranged weapons ultimately made me feel "how many projectiles can I keep spamming until I begin to feel like I'm a bullet hell game?".

    In starbound, I find myself using maneuver like crouching behind cover to fire grenade launcher alt-attacks before getting up again only to shoot a volley of gunfire from my assault rifle or shotgun. Something which I did a lot in the Dreadwing mission before reaching the UFO itself. It felt fun to me. Almost tactical. A shotgun often didn't just become a "close ranged" ranged weapon... it often became a "crowd control" weapon whose knockback would often be used to get enemies away from me and back in the midst of my combat crew in front of me.

    At this rate I read your criticism of the game and I start wondering if your issues is less from the games being designed badly... than simply trying to play it in a way it was not designed to be.

    Like said, this isn't Terraria... and in my mind neither has combat been designed to be the same than Terraria.
    It might not be you kind of thing... and that's okay.
    But personally I'm enjoying the way it plays out for me more than I enjoyed the way combat in Terraria played out in a way that felt too... zippy and high speed for my tastes. And that too is okay in my eyes."

    I won't tell you that you should absolutely enjoy it yourself, but perhaps consider that it plays out in the way it does specifically because it was -meant- to be designed in such a way. And that, yes, there can be people who actually enjoy this style of gameplay.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  18. Fenrakk101

    Fenrakk101 Space Spelunker

    You kind of missed my point, though. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't like it, or even saying that it's objectively bad; my point was that it's providing a barrier/obstacle that, given the content currently in the game, does not seem suited to what the actual "point" of the game is. If the game is focused on exploration and constructing, then those mechanics should be as developed as possible, and every other mechanic should be as accessible/tolerable as possible. If the combat is getting in the way of me, or anyone else, enjoying the exploration/construction, then that suggests a problem in the game's design, because a game about exploration shouldn't be unfun to people just because the exploration/construction have been balanced around combat mechanics. Much like my example about how a shooter shouldn't become frustrating for players just because of sudden hacking minigames in the middle. You're free to like the combat, and I myself tend to like hacking minigames in my other genres, but I still realize that they're incredibly problematic for how they interfere with the game's focus, and that's the only comment I'm trying to make about combat in Starbound.

    You commented about the question of whether I'm just not playing the game "the way it was meant to be played"; quite frankly, I would turn that around and say the game itself is not designed to support being played the way it's intended to be played. If it were a game focused on combat, I wouldn't level any of these criticisms at it in the way that I am; but I would then have a lot more criticisms, such as the lack of combat variety and progression. Outside of the boss fights, combat across the planets is incredibly dull and repetitive, and as I commented in the other Terraria thread, once you get upgraded gear, you head off to the next difficulty of planets, which makes the whole upgrade kind of pointless.

    In any case, if I recall correctly, in 1.0 mobs are going to be less aggressive, which should remove one of the frustrations that the combat mechanics impose on the exploration/construction. I still have a huge bug bear with the fact that you go slower backwards, because it makes navigation needlessly frustrating (and again, my point is that the navigation shouldn't be made difficult solely in an effort to balance out the combat; combat should be balanced in a way that doesn't detract from the other mechanics).
  19. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    If you die a lot for stupid reasons, perhaps you just suck?

    This is why I say the game is probably not your you. Clearly the controls are not that big of an issue for the majority of people, so your comments from a "matter of fact" point of view seem... silly. If the controls didn't make sense they wouldn't be the way they are. Platforming isn't a nightmare, it is a nightmare for you.

    Clearly, starbound isn't for you.

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