Feedback From someone who love the new hotbar(can we keep it, please?)

I've heard on the reddit that developers were still considering things on re: the new hotbar and thus that nothing is set in stone with it... which worries me, because I actually LOVE the new bar.

So whatevever come the final decision be(unless such decision lead to a new bar that is an improvement on BOTH the old and new design, even for fans of the newer bar) I just want to asks.... can us folks who are digging the new bar at least retain an option to use it?

I know that in the 2-3 years others have been playing with the older bar, experience and preferences have led to the new bar to feel like such a jarring, even frustrating change.
But the fact is.... not everyone else had such an ease of use with the old bar than you had

In fact, all these 2-3 years, I always felt I was just... struggling with the old bar design. It was... useable, but there were always a couple of things that felt like... like there was "more" I could do but the layout was hindering me.
And I couldn't figure out why.

But trying out the new bar? I finally figured WHY the old bar was hard to use for me.

People rant about how "constrictive" the new fixed paired slots are. How it make it harder for them to switch hands configuration on the fly. They talk about how "easy" hotkeys made the old bar feel so flexible to them.

And indeed it might have had such flexibility.... but it was also the old bar's dependency on hotkeys that also made it so... hard for me to use. I was always fumbling with those keys, mousewheeling always felt clunky because then I'd hit the "LR" middle slot that sometime would mess with my offhands setup.
And I could left and right click directly on the bar true.... but having to drag the cursor there and manually selecting thing like that wasn't always the quickest way of doing thing.

And all of this also depended on knowing that "right-clicking" the hotbar would even equip stuff to the right hand or that shift+number would do the same. Which, even after 2-3 years of playing the game, I only figured about two weeks ago because it has been THAT obscure for me. And not only for me, but also others reading at least some response to the reddit thread I'd created discussing the subject.

In comparison... the new bar has felt nothing less than superbly accessible for people like me who're always fumbling with hotkeys. Yes I can learn the old hotkeys and the like.... but at which point does getting told something like that falls into the realms of "git gud" territories? After all, this isn't a RTS.

Right from the bat, I had those six slots telling me dual-wielding setups were a thing.
Setting up those combination might be more "restrictive" to someone who is USED to hotkeys switches on the fly... but for me the added level of fixed structure has been nothing more than just plainly cheerful.
Instead of setting up my sword in slot 1, a shield in slot 2, a flashlight in slot three and then fumbling with left and right clicking and making sure I used the right shift+key keypresses.... I only had to setup the exact combinations I wanted in the slots I wanted them.
Putting Sword and shield in slot 1? Then I know for -certain- that sword and shield will be exactly what I have in my hands.
Putting sword and flashlight in slot 2? Then I'm certain that sword and flashlight is what I have when pressing 2.

This has been such... awesomely accessible for a player like me who always struggle with dozens of keyboard shortcuts in other games, the mere -idea- of a complete rollback to the old bar is something I would like other players to understand how scary it almost is.

It is jarring to see the way you've played a game in 2-3 years change so much. It was for me too!

But imagine being that person who always felt like they struggled with... "something", and they couldn't figure out -why-!, for all those years and suddenly be given this new tool... this jarring change of a new tool.... and suddenly being "gods, THAT is why I always struggled with the old way of things!" and suddenly learn that people hate the change so much that some of them want to roll it back altogether?

Sure, for those people the old bar may be better.

But for people like me it's like finally experiencing the game with a control scheme that feel "natural" to us for the very first time in -years- only to see the prospect of losing it while we now know WHY we were struggling with the old one and know it's not something we'll ever be able to easily be able to use because the answer may ultimately be nothing more than a variant of "git gud"?

I just wishes that folks understands... I don't mind if the old bar is brought back as a "gameplay preference setting".

But I wishes people also understand that there are people for whom keeping the new bar will equally be important... perhaps moreso because there are so many people out there who do NOT have this experience of switching to multple hotkeys on the fly or enjoy having to read through tutorials to see what -combination- of keys does what and which other does which to not mention having to read through forums to discovers that either as I had to do only a few weeks ago despite playing this game for years.

I'm all for you folks getting the control options and layout that you want and feel comfortable with.

But please understand how for me(and others) it is just as much important to keep this new layout which make use finally feel comfortable with the controls and options of this game to a level we have never experienced in the years we also have played this.

There is a thing to be said about the flexibilities hotkeys and setup of the old hotbar gave you all.
But understand there also is something to be said about the very direct "this does that and that does this" accessibility that the new hotbar provides for others like us

 

What about Shaadaris' suggestion that is pretty much exactly the best of both worlds?
http://community.playstarbound.com/threads/hotbar-and-selection-overhaul-updated-june-16-16.103185/

 

It feels like it has potential, but I also worry about the complexity of having to pair upper and lower rows together and all. It certainly could offer a lot of flexibility.

But the importance for me is "accessibility" and it is where the new bar shined for me because once my gear was setup I always could know what item pairs to expect just from pressing 1 to 6 or X. The smaller six slots bars also make it much easier/faster to mousewheel through which I generally do a -lot- of. To access 7-10 keys with the keyboard, I often have to let go of either my WASD keys or my mouse so the "shorter" setup was almost ideal for me.

I specifically like the new bar because it feels so much less dependent on knowing the right keypresses or keyboard shortcuts than just directly setting up the specific combinations I like and that's it. There do seem to be some of that in that mockups which shows potential... but like said the linking/unlinking mechanic makes me wonder if it's too much complexity?

Like I said I'm torn with this mod proposition but I just don't want to return back to the old bar wholesale either.
I've also heard(and voiced myself) suggestions of simply using the "layered" mechanic of the new bar to create an hybrid using the layers structure so that one layer is a "combat bar" using the new paired slot but the other is a "builders bar" using a 10 solo slots in a layout inspired by the old bar allowing builders player to place more construction blocks or furniture than even before. Both could be switched between using the X key as currently.

Like said... it's the fact that equipment pairs are so easy to guess(rather than main and offhand switching like the old system, and it's requirement to being familiar with keyboard shortcuts such as the shift+number option and so on) that makes it so accessible for me. I don't have to fumble with main and off hands. Every slots bring me exactly the combination I want from them. It's very accessible to me specifically because of that restriction which "lock" pair together at all time. It's something I hope is not forgotten about for the sake of more casual players who sometimes do prefer such direct simplicity because it's so easy to uses without worrying about more advanced system even if they may be more flexible to more experienced players.

So while I don't mind that mockup so much, it'd have to depend very much on how easy it would be to use without worrying too much about advanced individual hands switching mechanics or manually linking/unlinking the slots both of it's rows.

 

First I like to note that I personally can adapt to things quickly depending on what it is.

I have been 50-50 on both bars.

The feature of the old one that you describe, I never touched. I just simply used the L/R Slots to do my thing. That is probably why I can somewhat welcome the new hotbar more than some of the players that loved the old bar.

The only "Hot key" I ever used were the # & the ones for tools. The # hot keys still exist with the new one; granted a lesser amount needed. However the Tool hot keys only go one way; which the old bar went both ways.

I like the fact yes you can use the scroll wheel throughout the bar, but there is hardly anything for the ones that use hot keys, or at least the ones I miss. Bring out your MM, and then what do you do to switch back to what ever weapon or slot you want selected? Only 2 ways to do this with the new bar, which is the # or scroll wheel. In the old bar you could press the tool button again to go back to #1 I believe or back to the last slot selected. Something like that. So pressing R brings MM out and pressing R again would go back to where it was.

That is the only feature I miss from the old hotbar, and what I usually reference when mentioning any sort of hot keys; since that makes for ease of use.

Also that is why I say this new one is a bit clunky or tedious to switch between mining & any other slot. A simple thing yes, although don't know how simple the code for it would be. They had it before, and sure they could put in again.

The right click/left click thing to designate might have been for advanced users; which I guess means I am not an advanced user. I never used that function, and yes I am a casual player. So in my eyes I didn't loose too much from the old bar, just the one mentioned above is the only thing I lost.

In a way I am with you on that this new bar is quite newbie friendly, but to a point. To me it isn't really intuitive as the old one, and a bit more simplified; which is not a bad thing, just means it is more ease of recognition. Ease of use is debatable to the user. For me I found it easy to use, and quite simple to go to this and that beyond the one thing I didn't like of it.

I am also a builder. The old bar people say they build from it, and I can see how. For me though that only makes for just a few materials with the old bar, and even less with the new bar. So in a way, for me, new/old bar were the same on that front. I find myself using the inventory anyway to build things, as there is never enough room on the hotbar for all the materials, items, and the like that could be placed. Main reason why I use inventory. People build in different ways, and building from inventory cuts out the dragging to hotbar most the time. that window can be moved around the screen, plus with CTRL you can pan the screen around to a certain distance. That is all I have to say on the builder side of me.

I can understand where both parties are coming from, as the old bar was quite intuitive, just not easily recognizable to a new user. The new one is less intuitive; however is easily recognizable to a new user. So in a manner of speaking it is intuitive in its' own way, just different from how the old one way.

Hope this wasn't too long of a read, and I apologize for it. I tend to go on tangent sometimes...

 

I thought it just makes every existing slot into a pair of slots? I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "advanced individual hands switching mechanics or manually linking/unlinking the slots both of it's rows." It just looks far more natural and intuitive to me. 10 pairs instead of 1 pair + 10 single slots. Simple.

I also don't really know what you mean about keypresses. Does the nightly's bar not have keys bound to swap to/from the MM? I can't think of any other needed keys in stable, though I guess a lot of people hit the number keys to quickly select a slot.

As for numbers beyond 5 being hard to reach...I guess I don't see any way around that other than shortening the bar, which I don't feel would be a popular change; or rebinding the keys which you've already said you wouldn't like, so I won't suggest it.

 

Your tangent was fine!
Also I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who identify as both a builder yet rarely built using the old hotbar at all. I always prefer to bring up the entire inventory screen itself because then I always feel like I have my full "palette" when I bring up constructions. My only qualm in that regard doesn't even involves the hotbar but just wishing the game would memorize where I last dragged my inventory screen so it doesn't always pop into the middle of my screen(and thus generally over my character) when I press the inventory key. ^^;

 

It might just me misreading the bar suggestion... but it feels like he tries to explain so much it's mechanics(and like how it seems to try to go at lenght to still support quick main/off hand individual switching? Or unless I misread it all) that it feels almost too complex to understand.

As for keypress, I referred mainly to the fact it was sometimes clunky to try to setup main/offhand setups using the regular 1 to 10 keys on the old hotbar outside of the fixed middle LR slot.

I've played this game ever since it was in early access, and it took my until only a couple of weeks ago to finally know that I could press shift+number to equip one of the hotkeys items into my offhand rather than my main hand. And almost(though discovered sooner) just as much to discover that I could manually equip items on the mainhand using the left click on the hotbar as before.... but that I could -also- select my offhand item using a right click. In another reddit thread where I talked in support of the new bar, I saw I was not the only one to readily grasp this feature of the old bar because another player who had played this game for years only now figured out from reading about it there that this was possible.

Which I cannot help but feel made the old bar possibly sometimes too much of an obscure, perhaps even clunky for more casual players who may prefer the new bar's simplicity of it's fixed pairs, system for more casual and newer players who aren't used to the likes of keyboard shortcuts and the likes in games.

That is why I hope there is a way to keep fixed pairs because this old way of doing things might be flexible to an experienced player but just felt clunk if not difficult to use for a more casual player like me. Fixed pairs(and I hope I read well the potential for this mockup bar to support them) felt like they were a very direct way of setting up the exact pairs of items I want without being afraid of sometimes equipping the wrong item into the wrong hand just by scrolling my mousewheel in a moment of inattention.

 

That was one reason I formed a habit to not open a chest, which is the one thing that recenters the window to a specific position. Which means having all the materials i need to build with on hand in my inventory so I don't have to open a chest to grab this or that. sooo many options though.

It does have the key press for the tool buttons, but as I mentioned in my post it is also the thing that bothers me of the new one. You can switch to the tool with a key press, but you can not press again to go back to prior slot you had before. Which I don't remember if was slot number 1 it defaulted to or was last position along hotbar. Right now it is only a "one-way" key press.

At least the keys can be rebound. Like the hotbar switch between hotbar 1 & 2 being X; I changed it to tab as that is much more feasible for me. Glad though it kept the default and just added that keystroke to it. So I can use both X and my defined keybind.

Hopefully though they will bring at least the Tool key function they had before in the old one back. Since that was more convenient then selecting a number to go to.

As @Ludovic Mentions it was a feature that was not readily apparent. I only knew about it after someone mentioned it so long ago. I probably knew about it almost near the beginning since it was a prized Advanced feature of the old tool bar. Being able to designate a pair on the fly. I never used it since I thought the central L/R slots was enough for me. So I guess I am an intermediate user of the old bar. I find quite a few didn't even know you could put items in those slots more often than not; let alone knowing the advance feature.

You are right it is pretty much a gain in how many pairs can be setup at one time. However it looses the advanced feature of trial and error as well on the fly setups. At least from what others have mentioned, since again I never used that specific feature.

 

(Shaadaris' suggestion is for 10 "fixed pairs," isn't it? (not sure what an "non-fixed" pair would even be)

I've never heard of any of this, nor can I understand the need for it. Put what you want in the main-hand in the main hand slot, and what you want in the offhand in the offhand slot. That's the whole point of the paired slots, right?

 

It basically is. I might have simply misread Shaadaris' suggestion then, if they are indeed meant to be kept purely as fixed pairings. I wouldn't mind his hotbar suggestion if it were the case then.

But yeah, the fact you too seem not to have ever heard of the ability to manually setup individually main and offhand setups in the old bar is exactly why I feel the old system was so clunky: because it's so obscure.
An experienced player might have immediately grasped the potential hotkeys for it, but ultimately most casual players like me were never aware this were a thing... and even when we did it just felt.... clunky. Flexible, for an experienced players, but I feel I shouldn't have to struggle with this when I don't have that kind of ease with keyboard shortcuts.

And that's not mentioning the matter of space.
Even in the limits of the new hotbar... I can setup my slots like these:
Slot 1: Sword and shield
Slot 2: Dual Daggers
Slot 3: Dual pistols.
(I'd like to reiterate just how much I have grown to love these three different types of pairing btw. I'd NEVER used pistols or daggers before and now it's hard to -not- make use of them because of how much I've grown to love them all thanks to the simplicity of those new paired slots).

That's a whopping 6 different items, yet only three slots. Counting the second layer, that means I'm only using 3/12 of my slots for only 25% of what's available.

Under the old system that supports 10 different slots+LR, that still means 6 entire slots being taken by all the items of to support those pairings. So 6/10 slots, or 6/12 if we cound the LR spaces.
A whopping 50 to 60% of available slots that always need to be individually selected to make each pairing.

No matter what changes are brought to the hotbar, I do not want this to become exclusively my only option after experiencing the newer type of bar supporting paired slots, no matter what "flexibility" arguments proponents of the older bar might have for dual wielding.

 

Maybe this is silly, but i have two objections. The first is the hotbar is reduced from 10 spaces to 6 paired spaces on screen. If they can rearrange the presentation so that they can fit 10 paired spots instead of 2 sets of 6, I think I'd be happy.

The other is I also liked pursuing r, t, or y for the mm modes, then posing the same key to return to a paired set. That would make me happy too.

Besides that, I think I could work with it.

 

I don't mind some polish to the new bar as long as I get to keep the intuitive paired slot. They feel very easy to understand.

Even right now, it feels like all I ever have to worry about in terms of hotkeys are 1-6, then X(to switch layer) and finally R and Z(to empty my hand in guarded towns. Not sure if the old bar had that). Everything is close to reach. Only key I need to let go of to reach X is the D key of my WASD and it's close enough on my keyboard it rarely ever matter unlike the 7 to 0 keys on the other end of my keyboard. That's possibly why I'm the only few people satisfied with the current 1-6 setup(though I like that the X key itself means every individual setup can be given a "quick-switch" pair on the other layer using the X key). It's a big "your mileage may vary" deal I will consciously admit however.

Before, under the old bar it was the 1-10 hotkeys, then shift+1-10 to set stuff in the offhands and -then- also have to worry about X(for the lone LR default slot) and R for the matter manipulator. It felt like a chore to use I feel.
It might have been more flexible for a more experienced player with the time to train using that, but it doesn't feel that intuitive or accessible as the current fixed pairs is to one who doesn't need 132 different possible combinations. I only ever need 2-4 and with that I feel the new bar more than serves my needs.

 

I have never understood the position that the old hotbar is somehow good for builders where this one is not.

As noted, even the old hotbar does not have REMOTELY enough slots for the number of materials and decor items I would use in a build. And now that we have what, FIVE inventory windows, the hotbar becoming shortcuts is not a detriment at all.

Plus then using the hotbar means re-setting it for non-building activities and that's just obnoxious. I gotta go adventuring too to get new supplies and stuff, after all.

 

That's exactly my feeling. I won't disparage people who prefer placing blocks in the hotbar.

But I just prefer keeping them in the inventory screen since, especially with the new tabs for blocks, I just find myself prefering that much using the inventory to access my entire palette all at once. I mean... there's tabs dedicated solely to blocks and decor now without even any possibilities of weapons/etc getting mixed in them and leading to confusion.

My only nitpck would wishes for a sort of memory setting to be coded into the game, so that when I bring back up the inventory screen it pops back to where I dragged it to last(so I could get a better view) than right into the middle of my screen.

Some people do prefer the quicker access to blocks though. But generally mixing weapons, misc. items and blocks in the same bar still meant there were generally only 5-6 slots left for blocks anyway. That's basically the entire second layer of the new bar, easily switch to with a simple press of X. In fact I already sort of use it in a similar way. The first layer is my weapons and healing items. The second layer is torch/wooden platforms/ropes for when I've finally cleared an area of monster and need to improve the lighting of my surroundings or make my way back up to a ledge above me.

 

The old bar being more builder friendly I think has to do more with how much the inventory window gets in the way when building. It does take up a nice portion of the screen, and likes to recenter when open and close it. As well as how spontaneous one is as a builder. Having to muck about with the keeping the inventory window out of the way all the time when one has 4-5 materials they want to use to build an initial framework for a construction can really kill that spontaneity for some. So really I think it is more about how much have to fight with the inventory window and potential hotbar swapping when not building on a barren planet.

 

I'm wondering what resolution people are running this at, because I sure don't find the inventory window too big to easily work around.

 

I run the game at the 1300 x 660 (or whatever that particular setting is) and it still takes upward of a third of the screen and blocks MM placement wherever it ends up, which I personally have to adjust around so it's not in the way. The general idea of using the old hotbar is that you easily toss in two or three materials for framework, kind of like how an artist will use a limited selection of inks and the like for linework, and create the framework of your structure from a limited selection of materials. Then you move on to working from the inventory for finer detail.

People like me don't use just the old hotbar or the inventory, we frequently use both because it basically gives us two artist's palates to work with.

The new system has just as many slots as the old, yes (I count the L/R slots as part of the 10 individual slots,) but having to hit x to switch hotbars is extremely clunky to me since the button happens to be a bit awkward to hit when I could just hit any of the old hotkeys and reasonably expect to be able to reach whatever it is I need in an instant. I know it's kind of petty to whine about needing to hit one extra button, but I personally find it a touch infuriating that I can't even just scroll to the second hotbar and HAVE to hit x to reach it.

It really doesn't help that I'm used to the old system (and have been playing around with the new so I'm not complaining baselessly) and had it well-organized so that the `, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, r, t, and y hotkeys all snapped to items or functions relevant to what I'm doing at the moment, while leaving 7, 8, 9, and 0 for non-combat purposes when snap reactions aren't a necessity.

 

I wonder if 7 to 0 could simply be kept in a "side bar"(with an "hide/show" button) offering for solo slot for individual items on the side of your screen.

That might fix your exact issues there without changing the new hotbar itself. It might prevent using weapons and the like on those slots though.

 

That is something I wouldn't mind. Having a few solo side slots would make things a bit better in general.

 

1280x720 if full screen is working, and my max which is 1366x768.

On my screen yes it takes up a good bit, but I am use to moving the window around and deem is not a hassle for me; considering one can "pan" the screen. I actually do build from inventory. That is me though.