You know, I can't really top that... So I'm just going to say, This was totally worth it for me. This community has given me innumerable laughs and smiles, countless arguments and debates (mostly centered around updates or flame wars). But above all, it has been a fun, worthwhile experience just chatting and hanging out with you all. As I am currently homeschooling, I don't get to see my buds all that often. So being able to just jump in and talk and hang out with a bunch as awesome as this, it has made for a fun school year. Thank you for just being here, to all the great people, the wonderful friends, and downright idiots on this forum. You made this year fun.
I just want terraforming so I can make my perfect eternal storm hollow ocean world. You know, the hollow worlds from the prismatic stars mod? Am I the only one that remembers that mod? *shrugs*
I am so excited for this update. The way how Starbound changed over time... i will never regret it, that i bought that game. Keep up the great work
Uhh, this game is a open-universe sandbox... you can skip the story and already have the unlimited "endgame" sandbox stuff. I mean, look at minecraft - has anyone "run out of stuff to do" yet? Honestly, people who demand endgame content in games have ruined a lot of good games. The Division actually could have been a really good game if it wasn't turned into a gear grindy mmo-like. Sure, some people like that stuff, but if your game is just about satisfying an endless gear-drop addiction, then I almost never bother, because gameplay at the beginning is basically the same as 100 hours later, just with higher numbers and a longer time between getting your gear-drop fix. What I mean by endgame content ruining games, is when developers try to put it into *every* game, even ones that don't need it. Destiny is a lovely game, but imo it also got ruined by the fact that it's just a skinner box simulation making you run through the same repetitive quests over and over fighting bosses with bigger and bigger health bars (cuz thats fun) to get new bits of gear with slightly higher numbers, so you can do that quest again a little faster, until you get enough new gear with high enough numbers that you can move on to the next quest (that feels disturbingly similar to the last one...) so you can repeat the process over and over, with the developers hoping that they can keep you addicted long enough to sell you every bit of dlc they can. You know what a fantastic FPS was/is? The Half-Life series. Good gameplay, interesting story, it made it's point, and it left before you were sick of it. We want the next game - not cuz we're jonesing for more hazard suit gear or legendary crowbar drops - but because the story was gripping, and we were left on a cliffhanger. We cared what happens next. One day (hopefully) that story will be finished, we'll put our controllers down, and we'll remember that story and experience for a long time. Destiny, Division, etc... all those games, the day you put your controller down won't be because you completed it, and you feel satisfied, it will be because you became sick and weary of doing the same damn thing over and over until it's no longer fun, because you ran out of repetitive ques...oops I mean, "endgame content" to do. Like you said, those AAA games start out fun, and then get dull later on... thats cuz the game was built on a cycling addiction fix, and not good gameplay or story. You won't leave on a good note, only after it's worn out it's welcome and you're tired of the chore it's become, and you'll look back not in fondness, but in embarassment when you realize how long you were running on that hamster wheel, or - if I continue my skinner box reference - jamming on that button over and over to get the same basic item that doesn't change gameplay, so you can do the same quests that haven't changed in a long time. We let game devs turn us into gross addicts that will pay for any kind of dumb dlc so that we have more content to feed our addiction, so long as they made their game addicting enough, and now gamers start demanding that we get that fix satiated all the time, even in games where that stuff doesn't belong in. This is not a game about raiding and gear - you don't have levels or anything like that. If you can't figure out how to stay creative in this game and get bored without satisfying a loot addiction, then this might not be the game for you. You don't ask for endgame content or rare brick drops when you play with legos, do you? (Yes, I ranted a bit. I'm not actually angry with you in particular, sorry if I came off as personally attacking you, this was just something that I've been getting more upset with recently, and once I started typing, it just all came out. I originally just wanted to say those first couple lines)
I think you just cured my MMO addiction. I hate you, but in the you-did-a-good-thing kind of way. That was one of the most beautiful rants I've read in a long while. How can I ever return to Guild Wars 2 now? Minecraft technically has a story and the end-game content is beating the dragon and the Wither boss. About Starbound getting grindy endgame, I don't even know which side to take.
MMO's are typically the worst offenders for that, although I actually enjoyed GW2 for a good while without ever feeling like I was grinding or doing the same thing. I remember at one point, I just decided to explore and collect all the points of interest, turning it into a little platforming game that I could have done from the very beginning if I had wanted to. And hey, games like Half-Life or Starcraft could be called addicting cuz they're just fun, but there are different types of addiction when it comes to game development. Even Minecraft and Starbound could be called addicting, but it's technically not the same. It's about dopamine release, and you get that when you feel like you've accomplished something. Games like Minecraft or Starbound could give you that release from just building something big, or any old challenge you made for yourself, but you're not stuck in some system that's controlling how and when you get rewarded. If you haven't heard of the skinner box experiment, look it up and compare it to the ways game devs implement that shit in games. Basically, science has figured out how to control your dopamine release, which is how your brain handles reward and pleasure. That's why you level up quickly at first, and then it slows down. If you were leveling just as fast from 50 to 51 as you did from 1 to 2, those levelups wouldn't be rewarding anywmore, so they are longer in between. Just like with drug addicts, you don't get the same high from doing the same amount you did when you first started. Your brain builds up a tolerance to whatever it does repeatedly, which can be fixed by doing more, or spacing out releases. The problem is when a game has nothing going for it except an exceptionally built addiction model. The dangerous ones are games like WoW, that have a perfect addiction model, and are very well-designed games in their own right. Do you remember when Destiny came out? How everyone complained how there was nothing really to do, that higher level bosses were just the same thing, but took more bullets to kill? I only heard people complaining, but they still just kept playing because they had a fix to feed. Clicker games, like Cookie Clicker or AdVenture Capitalist are pure distilled skinner boxes. Clash of Clans and other time management games with energy bars and stuff are the ones that perfected the dopamine release schedule, being able to build quickly at first, then slows down a little, then a little more, then a lot more, and then by the time it's horridly long, you're already addicted and want to feed your fix so much, that you'll pay money to speed up building. And what's the purpose in game to do that? You build that building, so you can build the next one even slower, so you can build the next building even slower... nothing changes, it's just all the same. Candy Crush does the same thing, make levels get hard enough, that you just have to get crazy lucky or pay money for boosts necessary to actually beat a level. Or what about Puzzles and Dragons, or games like that? Pay real money NOT for a great monster, but for the ***CHANCE*** to get a good monster. Just straight up gambling. But it's legal, cuz it's not real money. It's fun-bucks..... that you bought with real money. The absolute WORST thing about all this??? These are the games we're giving to children now. That's why they're so bright and colorful. Get them addicted at a young age, and they'll give you money their whole lives, cuz they can't help it. It's what cigarette companies tried to do. Now we have parents just giving kids crack-level addictions. Any other kinds of games I can ruin for you?? lol
This was a finely aged rant, made from only the saltiest of tears, fermented in a oaken barrel, and let loose upon the forums. Well on you good sir. He even has the top hat necessary to enjoy and produce such fine rants. Good on you sir! Such a rant deserves a toast!
You might not have seen the posts I made afterwards elaborating on my concern, but by "endgame" I meant the game phase where story is complete and you have the top tier loot you are satisfied with. I mean, come on, look at Minecraft and Terraria - not everyone who plays the game is a creative constructor, with many folks resorting to functional but basic hovels quite often. You need to satisfy other groups of people too - explorers, collectors, challenge seekers and so on. And look at this: Starbound's biomes didn't turn out as distinct and spectacular to expected, with even more unique planets like ocean ones just offering a more slow to traverse environment. Subterranean exploration is still way behind the Terraria one, with random rooms being surprisingly repetitive and lacking in variety, not to mention somewhat weird. And because this is a 2D world, world generation in general will never get as spectacular as Minecraft's. I don't see devs talking much about improving this issue here, apart from several biome planet implementation that was already present as a test in one of early update builds and changed nothing, so I have no reason to believe they'll keep explorers interested for long while. Next, collectors! Now, they already inserted a lot of vanity items and rare knick-knacks into the game in previous builds, but those were pretty accessible, just found in random chests in certain biomes or areas, so unless they add some interesting quest chains offering the new rewards instead of leaving them in the open, everything will only be restrained by randomization of loot. Another feature that should interest collectors in particular is fossil excavation, but as subterranean exploration, as I already mentioned, is subpar and doesn't stand up in comparison to other games on the market like current build Terraria, plus there aren't that many other activities to do underground if you have ample resources, and no other activities to engage in for rare collectibles if this one gets boring, so that's why I believe SB 1.0 won't keep collectors interested for long either. Finally, challenge seekers might be distracted by arena for a while, but what's next? There were no mentions of more challenging randomly generated missions, they all seem relatively balanced in difficulty, so there are no replayable challenges for those that wants to engage in more difficult combat. That sucks, eh? Here's what I would do with SB 1.0 if I was in charge of game development: >Add a new "research" feature into the game where you can find certain resources on the planet - one surface resource for each biome, one subterranean, with each planet generated featuring only one type of each, and each biome type having two possible variations or so. Then, create a system so that you get to mix fixed amount of two different resources on a certain crafting station. Once you mix them, you learn a new recipe that can be crafted either on the same crafting station, or a sister crafting station. You cannot combine two same resources again, but these resources are used in the crafting of learned recipe anyways, so they don't become useless unlike ores once you move to the next ore tier. The new reciples unlocked trough research can be anything from vanity items, alternative recipes or aesthetic variations of existing items, items allowing you to summon a new unique type of NPC in the desginated homes to new niche tools. This will increase the importance of mining, satisfy both completionist collectors and explorers, increase the uniqueness of planets, will allow to experience the fantasy of being a researcher, and will allow to dump all the unusual interesting items into separate crafting stations. >Add elite/extra challenging/high difficulty missions that stand out from the rest by having a certain visual element in the offer screen, offer more difficult fights and challenges and greater rewards. Can be offered by a brand new NPC type that's all about offering hard quests, think mercenary contractor/officer/taskmaster. Will satisfy players looking for extra challenge. >Improve the underground exploration, make ugly weird microdungeons extremely rare and instead introduce more interesting modular environments similar to dungeons but not interconnected with the surface, add more subterranean exclusive elements, add new mob types adapted to fighting with low ceiling. Should make this incomplete aspect of the game more interesting. >Delay the game until the features working above are in working order, considering Chucklefish announced they have plenty of funds to continue development for almost a decade or so, I see no reason why they should rush the development
So, what you're saying, is that we shouldn't want to have anything to Do once we get to the end of the game's main story (not that it has a story right now, but it will from the sounds of it)? Once you off the last boss, that's it? There's nothing more to do? As far as Minecraft, to be honest I could never see the appeal behind Minecraft (no offense to MC players). Now, a better game to compare this to, would be Terraria. I put in some 920 hours into Terraria... doing what? New playthroughs. Each world is different, but yet the differences actually matter, and sometimes I'd use more of the varying playstyles (Melee, Ranged, Magic, Summoning...) or challenges ("Magic-Only", "Yo-Yos Only", etc). Can't really do that with Starbound, unfortunately, because the combat is nowhere near as polished (no offense to CF... they're working on it). Apparently a LOT of people like it, hence the huge fandoms behind Diablo, Borderlands, etc. These are all "Loot Games". That's basically every MMO, but yet look at how many MMOs are out there, how many MILLIONS of people play them and love them? You don't... but then you seem to be in a minority. Why are you bringing up FPS story-heavy games in a forum about a sandbox game? A sandbox game's true strength usually ain't the story. But yet when you're jonesing for some good combat, what kind of game do you pick up? Do you pick up that story-heavy game with very basic combat and maps you've already seen, or do you pick up a game with complex and challenging combat? MMOs are usually praised for having challenging coop vs CPU content. The people who love Raids in games like WoW do so because it is challenging co-op content, and the loot is a nice little pat on the back saying "Well done!" when you manage to kill the big bad boss. People like a sense of accomplishment. I'd have to say that FFXIV gave me both good gameplay AND good story that always kept me going "What's going to happen next!?" But yet it also has the skinner box too. And the end of the original main-quest was just ridiculously awesome. Which I did not mind seeing several more times while helping others complete it. MMOs are usually about waiting to see the new areas, the new story, the new bosses, etc once you've earned the gear to do so. Usually people who take breaks form MMOs do so because they earned that gear and are waiting for the next bit of content to be released. Some people are addicts, other people are just along to see the story and realize that there's a certain amount of work involved in getting good enough to defeat the challenges those kinds of games throw at you, both loot-based challenges and learning challenges. No, it isn't about raiding and gear... however, what do you do when you have the best armor and the best guns in the game? Then what? You can go to a new planet, and what....? See the "sights"? Once you've seen a few planets, you've seen them all. There's not much reason to keep going, is there? You need to realize that people enjoy progression, people enjoy making their characters stronger to face new challenges and then overcome them to get ready for NEW challenges. It ain't about the hamster wheel, it's about a never-ending cycle of there always being a bigger fish to fry, and needing the gear and skill to fry it.
Terraria has things underground that are actually interesting except Wall of Flesh and the occasional golden chest? Remember how Terraria 1.0 only had a few bosses, not even Wall of Flesh yet? Yeah. This sounds like Minecraft's mod Thaumcraft. It had it's pull, but it got horribly dull fast. Just stacking up on specific elements all the time. This kind of fits the bounty hunting suggestion that's being thrown around recently. Microdungeons aren't that bad. There's just not enough diversity for them to feel special yet. Compared to Terraria, they're more diverse than any structure you can find there. All microdungeons are also subterranean exclusive, meaning you have to dig down to find many parts of furniture like the Outpost stuff. Surely there are creatures who are good at fighting with low ceiling, like those damn crab things that run at you. Because they are nearing what they want to be labeled 1.0. That's all. Look at how feature lacking Terraria was at that point, or even Minecraft.
what do you guys consider a backer? like soemone who bought early access or someone who backed you on kickstarter
Backer is someone who backed on Kickstarter. Why do you ask? Can't find anything about it in the original log, except weapons that were built due to backer requests.
Since 1.3, there's far more gem caverns, the underground cabins look a lot more interesting, you can find statues (some of which have special functions), spider caves, minecart rails, mushroom fields, marble/granite biomes, and other stuff. Also, there's much greater biome diversity with the underground desert, underground tundra, etc. The Underground Jungle is now littered with giant mahogany trees, more shrines, bigger houses, huge beehives, etc too. The underworld itself looks far neater, and there seems to be way more "towers" occurring there. Then, once you kill the Wall of Flesh, the biome spreads change things. Underground Crimson looks awesome, as does Underground Hallow. Nothing wrong with a little progression-based gameplay. Why do you think Frackin'Universe is so bloody popular?
