Durability may be in. But is it wanted?

Well, after sleeping on the question I've settled on the opinion that there is too much random generation for the durability system to add more then it detracts(?). In a game like minecraft where all gear is essentially the same it may make sense, since all gear can just be re-crafted. In a game like starbound where you rely on random generation to spit out something cool.

I hope this makes sense.

 

For solo play or small group play I'm fairly indifferent to durability.

However for large servers, I feel as though it will be a must - unless there are materials being taken out of the game on a consistent basis there will be little room for mining/component corporations or suppliers of any type.

A server option perhaps with a slider for how fast you want items to decay?

 

I don't know about you, but it's only 4:00am over here, buddy! no time to stop discussions. lol





EDIT:

That is an excellent idea! if you could cap that with "no durability" on one side and 1-hit break on the other,
you could appeal to the most psychotic of players, as well as big wussies like me that don't want things to break.

 

Item durability: No thank you.
Item quality: Sure, why not?

 

I listed several games off the top of my head that have all done it well. Demon's/Dark Souls, Way of the Samurai, Monster Hunter. In all of these games, they contribute meaningfully to the gameplay, which is what I'm most concerned with.

Tiy said on Reddit that that was a mistake and the message would be removed. The Copier has a 100% chance of working and, if I recall correctly, items copied don't break.

 

I do remember quite well how in Terraria even the rarest of resources were quickly stacked in tons of chests. If there`ll be a sink for them, like repairing, it would really add to a game.

 

I won't vote since there is no option "Other, explanation on comment" and that would then be : Toggle mode, because people want options instead predetermined option.

 

Exactly. It has to be tailor made for the game, or at least in tune with the game's goal. I remember in Dark Souls durability was economic pressure. It limited the abuse of weapons like the drake sword, which still made portions of the game pretty easy. Way of the Samurai's durability system was ingenious, since it was focused on having restraint in combat. Become overzealous, and your weapon is trashed. Monster Hunter's system made durability super important, but inconsequential in the long run; you can never totally destroy your weapon, but it'll bounce off everything and be particularly useless if you forget to bring whetstones. In online games with economies, it's a way to soak up excess resources from the community and attempt to curb inflation and hoarding. Some games do just toss it in, but normally it's only seen as an annoyance to players that don't understand the point of the reduction in resources. Others do it to bring in a desired feeling, such as Fallout 3 or the like.

The durability system Tiy was teasing didn't even have any parameters expressed, and people are already flipping out. It's unknown what it'd effect, how much it'd degrade and what would cause it to degrade, if things are repairable, the cost of repairing, and if things would vanish on 0 durability, or most importantly: if it'll even be in the flipping game. The games you listed used durability well that had a good influence on the game. Only Demon's/Dark Souls had a somewhat typical durability system, and who's to say if Starbound's will be typical? Nothing else contained within Starbound certainly is.

Either way, it's probably more prudent to wait and see what the durability system even is (or if they are dead set on putting it in) before getting up in arms about it. Some people, like me, will probably add it if it's not present.

 

no there was no duralbilaty in terraria and i dont want it here nither because say you just got a super rare sword so you use it a lot , then it brecks so you will have to A find it again B remake it witch will be hard since it is made of some rare stuff . so no ppl dont want duabilaty unless you are a minecraft freak

 

Ah, the vagueness of the developers has caused (As Sophisticated Mayhem rightly said) an uproar on the forums.
Maybe we should just take this with a pinch of salt, eh?
Also, I am not exempt from this as I also have given a bit of a.. um.. angered response towards this.

 

Wall of text incoming, you have been warned.

Responses to RemanentSky in Bold.

Responses to Exkaiser in Bold.

Responses to Gentlemanly Shark in Bold.

Responses to Darlas in Bold.


Also, please consider this: It doesn't really matter if the item is lost or not. It will be unusuable in a time you don't want it to be and it might even get you killed. While having to check your weapon's durability all the time sounds like a good feature on paper as it would reward being careful, there are situations one just can't be prepared for. Also, not everyone thinks this is fun.

Which brings me to the other problem. For those people that would like to add durability to the game, it could indeed be fun. However, for those that don't want it, it would not be fun. So by adding this feature in a bad way, you please one part of the playerbase for the price of alienating the other. This is bad game design people!

 

I prefer without, but I can live with it as long as items aren't lost at 0 durability.

 

I just hope nobody really took it to heart last night. Its a strong subject apparently and people got a right to say their opinion, both ways.

There is a lot of good ideas this discussion generated tho. Optional, hardcore, server choice, various other possible implementations. Some strong points why some don't like it in certain ways, and why some really do enjoy it.

Thanks mods for not locking us down and letting us babble on.

 

AH-HA!
I have cracked it! How certain factors affect durability, and whether or not it would be useful to have it implemented.
Now, I will be comparing Terraria and Minecraft in this, as they seem to be the favored games in this discussion.
Now, with my first point...
1. Availability
Now, in Minecraft, iron is basically everywhere, same with stone, which are both used to create tools. It costs barely any iron to make a full set of iron equipment, which brings in the fact of how the availability of resources affects durability. In Terraria however, you required a crap ton of iron ore to make even a few tools, and even more to make the armor, which, if durability was in Terraria, would be a pain in the ass, as most ore were found mainly deep underground with traps and what-not. So, if your pick broke deep underground, and you had no metals to make a new one, you would be pretty much screwed.
Basically, The more common the material is and how many ingots it gives upon smelting would impact negatively on the durability.

2. Strength
In Minecraft, Iron tools and Diamond tools were the best, due to Iron being in mass quantities and Diamonds lasting a long time. However, due to the fact you could make a ton of iron picks from one ore vein, they had to be made pretty weak. In Terraria, the most powerful tools, like the Hamdrax, were rather hard to get as you had to beat all the hardmode bosses, have a drill of each hardmode metal type, and then put 'em all together. Now, I'm sure that if durability was in Terraria, then nobody would use the Hamdrax at all, under the fear that it would break really quickly due to how powerful it was.

3. Time
In Minecraft, the time taken to get a useful set of tools isn't really that long, as caves and iron are everywhere, resulting in a back-lash of iron left in reserves, but never really gets used up at all. (At least in my worlds it doesn't get used up ) In Terraria, it took a LOT of time to gather the necessary resources in a multitude of ways, from finding a big cave, to actually trying to find the stuff.

These are all factors that would result in the durability mechanic being useful or not, (which it isn't) and that it changes depending on the type of availability, strength and time required to get said resources.
Seeing as Starbound will mostly end up like a "3 Ore = 1 Ingot" type of affair, then i think Durability SHOULD NOT be in Starbound, as it would add another annoying level of tedium to the game and make it less enjoyable for me.

 

NAH! NAAAAH! I don't like durability! It's stupid and useless... U fight with monsters and then <crack> "Oh, sorry, your weapon is broken." And you die. HAHA! Well done game makers!

 

I feel the block of text coming.

I am strongly pro-durability, as long as it is well made. By well-made I mean funnier than losing my equipment or taking silly risks. Here are some guidelines of what I call a good system.
- No minecraft durability, avoid at all costs. There's nothing more I hate than items that break and are lost forever no matter how many times you've enchanted it. While I prefer "short" games that have Infinity+1 replayability than 1000 levels MMOs, I hate needing to do something in particular just to stay in my current state, and even then it would only give a few more uses before you can't repair it anymore (39 levels cap in Minecraft).
- Neither binary nor constant durability. Binary durability means that as long as your item has 0.00001 HP it will perform fully functionnal but as soon as you strike it once more BOOM it breaks and becomes unusable. Constant durability is STALKER-like, meaning that your first strike/shot/whatever WILL affect the weapon efficiency. I think that there should be a tiered durability. For example - Above 50% : Fully functional weapon/armor, between 25% and 50% : Light stat loss, between 0% and 25% : Heavy stat loss, 0% : Broken.
- Minecraft was wrong with durability, but right with repairs. Make it so there are several ways to repair an item. For example :
* Blacksmith : Will repair your weapons for a Pixel fee. The lower the durability tier, the higher you will pay.
* Reprint : The only way to repair a printed weapon, dismantle it (You recover half its price scaled according to the durability) and then recreate it. Price to pay for having a renewable weapon.
* DIY with materials : If you're a miner, instead of selling your materials to get the money to repair your pickaxe, why not directly repair your pickaxe with your materials ? Works like Minecraft old Anvil plugins and mods, when you used X material you repair your X item.
* DIY with machines : In every game (At least from what I know) the blacksmith instantly repairs your weapon to full durability and your money magically disappears. I want to do the same thing. I put a module on my ship, my weapon inside, some pixels and voila ! My weapon is back ! But this machine is like a slot machine. First, it won't always repair to full durability, most of the time it will only repair a random fraction of what's missing. Also, sometimes it will damage or even BREAK my weapon altogether ! At other times, it won't change my weapon durability - but still charge me for it. What I like about this machine though is that it will never scan for its current durability when asking me money. Be it broken or perfect, the price is constant (For the same item of course).
- Without durability, people will rage. With durability, other people will also rage. The solution ? Like hunger, make it optional. You can't turn off the durability altogether - durability loss will still register and the weapon value will scale accordingly - but switching off the option will simply disable the nasty effects of being damaged or broken AKA whatever the item condition is, it will always perform 100%.

 

Don't really understand the hostile feelings towards durability. There are good and bad examples of durability, as with most subjects. I agree that durability could be awful. Examples include Items break super fast (like in Dead Island -.-), and items that break are lost forever. Either of those would be crippling and tedious as many have mentioned.

Personally, I'm for durability implemented well and here's some reasons why. I hope some of you against durability (which I can completely understand why, and sometimes it's best not to run the risk of hoping the developers do a good job implementing it) will at least not be so hostile towards it.

1) Durability adds in a nice realistic detail. Stereotypical you say? I know it is, but hear me out. Let's say that we have some wooden tools, and they suck at gathering resources because they are like the first tools you make. Well I like the fact that when I upgrade to, say, steel tools. That not only am I able to gather resources faster, but the durability for something steel would be higher than wood, and thus I could gather resources for longer without repairs. It adds in an extra "oomph" to upgrades, making the next tier of tools that much more desirable and seem that much stronger. Now imagine with weapons and armor when you find those legendaries.

2) Well, this one can be good or bad, but it adds an extra chore. Now this is what most people hate I suppose. The extra menu, click repair all, click confirm, and be on your way tedious nonsense. I feel ya there. I like to think of it as buying food for my pet, and then feeding them. Sure it's not the most fun thing in the world, but you at least feel like you have to care for them.

3) Durability adds a limit. I like that a lot actually. I know, I'm probably crazy. Let's look at it though. Inventory limits the amount of stuff that you can pick up before having to make a return trip to sell/store, is a realistic feature, yet is not seen as tedious. Fuel limits how far you can travel before you need to gather resources for fuel in order to explore more. Durability is somewhere in between those. Durability limits how much you can do before having to make a return trip. I feel like that is pretty important.

I can imagine like lava planets being extremely dangerous, because of hurting your durability more than a normal earth-like planet would. Maybe even just instantly burn up wooden tools and armor. So low-level gear would make this planet seem even more treacherous, and hard to explore. Another example would be like, a wooden pickaxe would be able to dig so far before breaking and needing repairs. When you get to the higher tier pickaxes, you could actually make it down to the core, kind of like a metroid-vania gear dependant level up thingy.

Fun situations can arise from durability as well. Like you weapon has low durability and there's a horde guarding a loot chest, you know have to be creative in tackling these enemies if you want that loot, because facing them head on might mean your weapon becoming useless midfight. Or your armor breaks and now you're a glass canon, now you have to act super dodgy as any attacks will do full damage.

All of the above is moot if durability is implemented poorly. It is a risk, and a possibility. Durability can easily seem pointless, tedious, and detracting from the game. If done right, it doesn't necessarily add anything besides an extra chore. However it details other points of the game, such as running into situations you otherwise wouldn't, an extra stat (do you want the more powerful shotgun, or the less powerful but more durable shotgun?), more "oomph" to upgrading gear, a limit to increase, a thing to spend money on, and something to manage. Sorry for rambling!

 

Responses to Defeature in Bold.

 

Actually I wasn't referring to you at all good sir, there is a difference between being agitated or down right hostile. You where just agitated with peers around you and even tho technically you where being aggressive you where not "attacking others Directly"
I was more referring to a particular person who consistently shouted Idiot to another.

 

OH JEEZE, STAY AWAY WOW FLASH BACKS, NO THATS MY GOLD NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
On Topic: Frankly, I Don't Exploit Money Glitches, This However Would Encourage Me.