Do You want Complete Transparency or Collatable Information?

There is only one question, asked by myself and others, that has not been answered even when asked directly, including in that thread, that i think would solve a lot of crap: What is left to be done? This question would have two separate answers, one for beta and one for release. Personally i only care about beta, cause once i actually have something to mess around with the wait won't be as bad. Now i know we're waiting for tiers 2 and 3 so far. But is that it? Is there a laundry list of other things? Does CF even have a clue? Are they just set on Dec. 31 and seeing what they can cram by then but not saying anything because it'd just be as negative as possible?

I think if they gave an honest actual answer to this question, things may simmer down a bit. Now they may be asking for status updates on this afterward, but if CF gears their daily updates toward what's remaining as opposed to random patch notes, it would be better received.

Definition of actual answer: Not a political answer, not an empty answer. It is possible to say what's left, actually left, without spoilers. Watch the difference in these two examples:

Political, empty: "We have a few things left to go, and are working hard to get them out to you." This means nothing, because it could mean anything. The only thing that can make it more vague is if they added "soon" to the end.

Actual answer: "We have 3 more things on our list of small features we wouldn't want to release the game without. We also have 4 major bugs we are aware of, and 2 core features that need to be finished. These numbers are small, but they are not small jobs. We are working to get them done ASAP but we cannot give a definitive timeline on them. I'm sure we all know, anything can happen." Now look at that beautiful chunk of info. It tells us so much without giving ANYTHING away. It tells us they are aware of critical bugs and need them done before beta can be released. It tells us they know what they are doing and have a plan. It tells us that they have decided what needs to be there before they want to release beta, and gives us a little more insight on what is left. It shows us how close we are (relatively) and tells us they can be longer projects than just one and done. It also gives them something to check off in the daily updates, and actually get people excited. It also tapers off any bullshit they could be squeezing through, because if an update comes by and says "Today we finished ____" and the number doesn't decrease, they're not following their own plan. Which is what a lot of us are afraid of.

Now granted they could just lie about it and we'd have no way of knowing. But even despite all this, i feel they're unprofessional, unorganized, and have little plan of action, hence all the fuck ups, but i do not feel they've ever intentionally lied to us. If i felt that, i would have gotten a refund and just pirated the game on release. As much negativity i say about this team i have not completely lost faith in them as developers. In fact from a development standpoint they're doing fine. They just made some mistakes. A lot of pretty big mistakes.

 

When they can be for sure, yes. I agree with that. I agree with them giving info when they feel like they can accomplish it, not before, unlike many people seems to want.

Tiy didnt say all tiers on beta, he said all tiers they can get in without potentially delaying. Three is a pretty nice number for a beta, i would say, and doesnt seem to delay to much.

 

I agree one hundred percent... Too bad this thread was merely made for debate but was starting to bash the majority of forumites instead. Labelling the majority as the "Vocal minority" has really been over tiring.

Like that one point you made in the TAW update thread. If we were truly the minority then either a lot of people don't want TAW or too many people have been burned by chuckle... Obviously the later.



On a more related topic. To the op.

NOBODY asked for transparency like lusid has mentioned. When we addressed the communication issue, successfully, despite the horrendous resistance the white knights threw in to the point they were trolling... We asked various questions, and were very careful about the questions we asked for a reason. I don't expect you to grasp the tact that our collective mind had summoned in order to accomplish our goals.

And that goal wasn't to "Know everything there is to know." That goal was to either know or estimate "What the people should know."


Everyone here would still be saying "Oh FEATURE COMPLETE!" and yadda as if it was still fact.. but now have the answer on how many tiers chucklefish wanted before beta. Said knowledge wasn't public knowledge before then... So lets not pretend it was. That was collatable, and useable information that was much needed to ease a lot of tension. Which near stretched an entire thread from a one post "I want a refund because the community sucks and the wait is longer than should be," to a near 89 pages of debate by many individuals with no shortage of heat and flame.

What's sad is that we have to mow through a brick wall of naysayers and our fellow peers in order to get ANY KIND of answer on this forum that would take a chucklefish member less than five minutes to type. And thats if someone doesn't come in and purposely annihilate a thread with their stupidity to likely intentionally get it locked. I honestly think that a lot of people need to get off their high horse and respect people's rights to be heard. Even if its a negative view on how chucklefish is doing.

 

I find the daily update to be more the enough. The only thing they could do now is update all that old info on the main page and it would be good to me.

 

You understand, that there will be a bunch of people, who will be pissed off by any change or addition to such a list, even speaking about bugs? There would be people forcing devs to write in detail about the bugs in hopes of convincing them, that some of those are not game-braking and so on.

 

The one thing I would really like to change is the way spoilers are dangled constantly overhead. I would just rather not know about it than to hear almost daily "We did something cool but can't show you"

Other than that, I think what we saw from the thread yesterday is that what people need are clear, concise answers that leave no room for doubt; fewer "soons" and "maybes."

Just my two cents.

 

And there you go again acting as if those in your ranks are peerless and did not make mistakes of their own. That you are the ones being wronged by the so called white knights. Your delusions of grandeur are hilarious.

 

Watch out the castle is under siege lol

 

The daily updates are great, but the roadmap could use some work. Other than that I'm just fine with the way they are communicating.

It's the community that is the problem (Yes, including me and you, person reading this post). You have people like me who are overly critical of the dev's work and get worked up easily, and then you have the people who do nothing but praise them. (We get it, you like the daily updates, you don't need to fill the first 3 pages with [Insert compliment on daily thing here]) There isn't much in between, or at least if there was, the middle men left the forums a long time ago

 

I seem to recall a fair amount of trolling from a variety of sources, including many on your 'side' as well - incidentally, I've mentioned elsewhere how unhelpful it is to categorise various people into 'sides' arguing against each other. It instantly sets people on the defensive and makes civil discussion almost impossible. My take on things is that we are all people interested in SB - we have that in common - we all have an interest in this game being finished and put in our hands, by whatever means that may take. Where we differ is opinions on how best to follow development, and surely we should be able to discuss this amicably? It's not exactly life and death, for chrissakes - everyone needs to get some perspective.

I think you'll find that a lot more people would be receptive of your ideas if you presented them in a more courteous manner. Demands for information, heavy criticism of the dev team (no matter how much you think it's deserved,) dismissal of anyone else with a differing view, are all likely to get peoples backs up and start world war 3.

This isn't rocket science. Talk to people the way you would want to be spoken to yourself, and I think you'll find the vast majority of people will respect your opinion no matter if they agree with you or not.

 

I want all my future communication from Chucklefish to be narrated by Morgan Freeman and sent via voicemail to my cellphone.

 

They are from all perspectives. No where did i state that "My side" wasn't guilty of similar disproportions. And its a very faint line between people who feel chucklefish has done, "Alright" and "not so great." I don't need need to be given a lecture from someone on rocket science fundamentals when they clearly over analyze every little aspect of a post just to pick apart to find flaws that are only there dependant on the eye of the reader. But it is funny though. Every time i drop the word of the "White knights." you come in charging guns ablazing with darklight not far in tow... And a good amount of people do indeed respect my point of view because its probably one of the most level headed approaches to this situation. Anything you said in this post is just more of an attack on my point of view and opinion and is not constructive criticism at all. Ultimately i would like to thank you for validating my post. Now get off your high horse and stand down here with the rest of the vocal minority.

And there you go again making assumptions. And my delusions very real.

 

Touche

 

But also nowhere did you state, as you did for the 'other side' that they did, either. You can't just criticise one actor when both are at fault.

I happen to agree with some of 'your side's' points, including that CF's communication could have been better lately. From my perspective, the line doesn't exist - at the very least, I cross it with ease.

It seems that you can't abide even constructive criticism. I feel for you, because that's going to get you into strife down the line unless you become more receptive.

Uh huh - I think I've encountered you exactly twice previously, only one of those even mentioned 'white knights', and I seem to recall that it was you who decided that I was a so-called white knight. I have no affiliation with any other member of the forum, either - trust me, there is no 'Donseluke stalking club' here.

Good for you. Do you want more people to respect your position, including those who don't share it? I gave some advice about that - it's really not bad advice, and works in a variety of situations outside this forum, even.

How, exactly, did I attack you? I can't for the life of me figure out how my post could be construed as an attack.

It certainly seems that you are determined to have a fight. It won't be with me, though.

 

I think this thread will need more than 's to sort it all out by the looks of things.......oh dear, well I hope it all goes well im gonna go finish reading todays update, have fun

 

Game over, man.

 

Where's the option for "They're doing fine right now"?