Crafting Weapons VS Dungeon Weapons

For those of you who don't know the weapons you obtain from crafting are entirely better then the weapons obtained by dungeons. Overall this is obviously an issue as a player is then unlikely to go on a dungeon run, this is because....

What a dungeon has to offer-
Pixels
Weapons
Shields
Stims
cosmetic items

Items the player can obtain outside of dungeon-
Pixels-Refinery
Weapons-Crafting
Shields-Random chests(doesn't really count though)
Stims-Stim vendor


Overall dungeons don't have much to offer because of this, however I do think there's a way to improve it. Rather then just making the crafting cost for weapons be raised I think crafted weapons should have something among the lines of having blueprints drop from dungeons, and then using the weapons found from dungeons as a base of the crafted weapon.

So for example

Mace of Craftiness
Built from-
Mace that is at least Tier 3
Set amount of bars
Prison Warden's Gem(dropped by a Floran guard in the prison dungeon)
Blueprint dropped by-Enemies in the Floran Prison

Thoughts?

 

I like this idea, though a few things need to be tweaked:

a. The getting of weapon parts from enemies. Assuming weapons parts aren't dropped by RNG, enemies not spawning in dungeons again would be a problem. This kind of system where you need to obtain parts would cause people to be looking around an entire dungeon just for that one last enemy with the final part to a weapon. This seems fairly annoying, needing to backtrack so often. This could probably be solved through being guaranteed a part after a certain number of enemy kills in a dungeon, with enemy locations being strategically placed to encourage exploration as well.

b. The inconsistency of dungeons showing up on lower level planets. As dungeons are your only source of weapons in this system, if a player cannot find a dungeon on his planet, which is common on lower planet tiers, he will be unable to get weapons for the next tier (or if he's in tier 1, any weapons at all). The inability to effectively attack and kill enemies will create huge amounts of difficulty, especially for a new player who can't run away with things like tech. This will most likely cripple the start of the game.

c. This isn't really an argument, but are crafted weapons of the next tier? This could potentially allow for a progression system to be in place for explorers - explore planets to find a dungeon -> explore dungeon, obtain parts -> craft new stronger weapon for next tier -> explorer now has an appropriate weapon for the next tier -> explorer can advance effectively and progress through the game. If crafted weapons are of the next tier, this can create a pretty darn good progression system for people who enjoy exploring.

In regards to this progression system as well, in order for players not to progress extremely quickly like they would be able to in the current dungeons, which are too small, increasing the size of the dungeons would probably be necessary. Oh, and dungeons should have way more varied locations and styles than they currently have, in order not to bore exploration-loving players.

Anyways, great idea. It has a lot of potential if used rightly.

 

I agree with you that most weapons you get from dungeon chests are inferior to craft-able weapons, DPS wise. However, dungeon weapons sometimes have status-inflicting effects associated with them, and as such, might be better against certain enemies. The shock ability allows you to do ranged attacks with your weapons, the poison attack allow you to perform hit-and-run tactics, and some dungeon weapons have a ridiculus speed that it is possible to use them to push back enemies. Craftable weapons are really good at damaging the enemies, but I think that dungeon weapons, with their special perks, might be very valuable against your foes as well.

 

Precisely what I was going to say. Dungeon weapons offer a whole new flavor to the game. I've used quite a few to take on bosses when I first got the game and used them on the Bone Dragon as well. It's nice to switch from a high DPS crafted weapon and a medium-low DPS weapon with burn, shock, ofpoison on it.

 

1. additional attributes do not scale, as of yet.... making their status effects fairly worthless. only "projectile" specials seem to work correctly, and even then you'll be hard pressed to find one that beats a hammer.

2. i do not like the alternate system proposed here, not as presented. it means that crafted weapons are still better than looted ones, but also you need to grind out exotic materials and a blueprint in order to craft it.

 

A special item used for crafting isn't anything special or considered rare, it would pretty much be on the same point of rarity to that of something like the golden key in terraria, in that it's rare to be dropped by generic monsters but there are mobs which will have a 100% drop rate on it, as stated in the OP the prison warden would drop it, think of this made-up enemy as a mini-boss you'd see at the end of the dungeon, the only reason you'd have an issue getting these crafting items is if you'd be unable to get past the dungeon in the first place.

I think to fix the issue with B weapons will still be craft-able, but simply stand on a weaker state until upgraded with the dungeon weapons,

Pretty much put it, the mace you craft from pure ore/bars will be considered Tier 3.0, while a dungeon weapon would be considered Tier 3.1 ,the resulted weapon from crafting the two together though the system would result in a 3.5 weapon, the 3.5 weapon would be the weapon we normally craft today.

 

i do not like the idea of "guaranteed crafting item drops". before you ask, no i do not like how it is currently implemented for bosses. you'd also be dependent on a drop for the recipe, as you stated. so there's be no guarantee i'd even have the recipe to use the gem that dropped instead of a potentially useful random drop weapon.

on the other hand, if i were guaranteed these things, why bother tying them to a dungeon in the first place? it would mean nothing more than a requirement to grind certain planets for their dungeons so that i could keep a useful weapon for the tier.

and it still does not address your initial concern with crafted items being better than nearly all drops.

 

My biggest issue with weapons either found ( usually found in large chests as well as those obtained by killing a mini boss creature for example) are nearly always inferior to those craftable with tier-specific ore. The only time finding a weapon yields a superior one (typically) is after beginning a new character. starting with a weapon that does 4 damage per second you can usually find a weapon that does 8 damage per second and has an extra effect . But once you can start crafting your own weapons, found ones and mini boss ones are just junk.

In my opinion, any weapon obtained from a mini boss should be superior to one craftable. And any weapon found in a remote chest should at least have a decent chance of being superior to a tier-equivalent craftable weapon. Like 75% of the time it's a better quality/higher stat weapon than a craftable one of the same type.

 

i agree, except with the specific numbers. i'd say miniboss 40-45%, chest 5-10%. i think the first two diablo games had a fairly good ratio of finding useful equipment to vendor trash.

finding something usefull should kinda be a "item get: fanfare" type moment. after all, you dont want the user to be able to instantly have the "best for tier". with your numbers, i'd be guaranteed "best for tier" after surface skimming a single planet.

 

I was on a beta sector planet and I picked up an uncommon shortsword with a damage per hit of 104 and a lightning element. WHERE ARE YOUR CRAFTED WEAPONS NOW?

I laughed in the faces of enemies all the way up until I died in an asteroid field in Delta Sector too far from spawn and was unable to retrieve my items due to the cold.

 

i havent used craftable weapons for over 200hrs of gameplay. i think their numbers dont accurately reflect the damage they actually do. my 3600dps lightning/fire 2hander kills t10 mobs seemingly just as quickly as my 4444dps craftable and gives me the opportunity to hit the mob once, maybe twice before it even reaches me. i think if you find the right weapons they are just as good and better then the best craftables.

 

Wow! That is certainly something I've never encountered. Every weapon I encounter is pretty much junk it seems.
With regards to what D-16 stated above, I admit I was a bit carried away with my proposed numbers. I was neglecting to consider that at some point we'll be able to sell useless weapons if they aren't up to snuff (so they aren't actually useless after all). In this case, it makes more sense to have a more difficult time finding a superior weapon in a random chest. I still think that any mini boss drop should at least be marginally better than a tier equivalent craftable, given the somewhat rare chance of encountering the boss and the increased risk to defeat it ( Although who's kidding. unless they catch you in the open, even the miniboss is a pushover when you can use terrain to shield yourself from their attacks and they're far too dumb to figure out how to get to you)

 

You can't craft bonewhackers and poopwhackers (I think). I haven't really made my own weapons but good to know they can be better. I still love exploring dungeons.

 

Causing top-tiers to be dropped by bosses would just cause dungeons to be evaded more, in fact that would cause the gameplay to be rushed even faster since the second someone goes to sector X they could rush a top tier-tier10 weapon.

 

actually i DO avoid dungeons like the plague. theres not a single worthwhile drop ive ever gotten out of one

 

This being said the whole focus of this thread is dungeons which is why I don't even know why we went on topic of the randomly generated mini-bosses in the first place, I thought you'd know this but I guess you and many other posters aren't even reading the OP.

 

I've noticed that too! So far I'm only up to Tier 6 planets in Sector X, but 9 out of 10 dungeons I have entered in this game have given me nothing but pixels. Actually, this has probably been the most disappointing aspect of the game - you spend time searching for a dungeon, get excited when you find one, go through the entire dungeon, only to end up with nothing but pixels. It goes against the general reward system that most games use (and that gamers have been trained to expect), namely that when you find and beat a dungeon, you expect to be rewarded with something. There have been quite a few times where I search through an entire dungeon, only to find NOTHING.... not even pixels.

I think that given the sparsity of dungeons, there ought to be some manner of reward whenever you fight through a dungeon. Even if it was just a miniboss encounter (you know, the 2x sized random encounter monsters that drop a weapon), then it would feel satisfying. Otherwise, I feel like I'm losing the motivation to explore and find dungeons, which I thought was going to be a big part of this game :-(

Anybody got any thoughts on this or recommendations? I don't like being a downer

 

I think the idea is that, at least for me, I don't really get any dungeon based weapons because I haven't really acquired anything from dungeons other than pixels. I think I've only got maybe 3 good items (2 tech items, 1 matter block) out of 30 dungeons I've gone through. The point is that for dungeon weapons to be worth anything, there needs to actually be dungeon "prizes" either acquired through discovering treasure chests, or by encountering minibosses.

 

Not in my experience. Ranged knockback is a tough perk to beat, especially when you're facing enemies with short-ranged attacks of their own.

Which is how I think it should be. What's the point in crafting if you get better stuff from a chest? A hybrid system as proposed here makes both crafting and exploration have purpose, as opposed to one supplanting the other.

This need not have any more grinding than straight loot drops. If a given weapon drops only 0.01% of the time, then the blueprint can drop 0.01% as well, while the exotic material, that you need 10 of, drops 0.2% of the time (don't want it at 0.1%, as then there's a really good chance that you'll get the blueprint but still have to continue grinding).

And there's an added bonus that the blueprint doesn't necessarily have to be limited to a single item; if we had an advanced crafting system, the blueprint could be for an attribute you add on to weapons you craft, which could make it useful throughout the game. Furthermore, if you give the exotic material additional uses, you can up the drop rate and make any goal-oriented grinding take less time.

 

i read the whole thread and i commented on dungeons saying basically "they suck". i have no suggestions to make them better because i feel they are presently only placeholders for future refinement. at least i HOPE thats the case. so please dont accuse me of just random posting. im aware far too many people just respond to the last post or 2 and wind up repeating things 4 of the last 5 posters said, so i understand your frustration with that. i too hate reading 6 posts in a row that all state the same thing.