Could you please hurry up with the exp system?

So that justifies calling people an asshat?

 

Oh yeah, and the fact we are in a suggestion [(<FORUM>)] means that people will discuss the pro's and con's of a suggestion and either attempt to refute or improve on the topic so the developers will have most of the arguments pre-argued for them and therefor need to spend less time to decide whether or not to implement it, as well as a general assessment of how well liked the suggestion is.

 

You're not going to get through to this community because they have it dead set that the singular definition of a sandbox game means it shouldn't have RPG elements or that they don't fit. I've seen so many people repeat that sandbox game mantra ad nauseam here despite there already being games in existence that do have leveling systems in place. And every time it's brought up, people shut it down based on the idea that RPG = grind = not fun, so I while I don't mean to sound negative about it, it just seems like it's kind of pointless for people to spend time discussing it outside of it being a mod.

CREA is being made with RPG elements in mind at it's core, but it is still in development. While it's not as polished as Starbound is, it has a lot of potential. Darkout also has a method of gaining exp in the form of research points that are used to unlock new recipes. I'd suggest just checking them out.

 

Just a little reminder that you're on a public forum, and insulting people is not a good way to gather support for ideas.

Also, people here have been fairly nice in pointing out that this is not a new idea, and it historically has not been a desired feature. You then started blasting off, apparently believing that we are rejecting your thought process, when instead we are simply stating that this has been discussed, and it would be more helpful for everyone to read those discussions than to start over from scratch.

Also, thanks for not insulting me. It's pretty easy once you get used to it, this whole "not insulting" thing.

 

An XP system is something that rewards time spent in-game. This, naturally, provides more benefit to people that spend more time in-game. If it didn't, it would be ignored due to, you know, not benefiting anyone.

The problem with this type of system is that it makes people unequal. Those who spend more time are stronger/faster/better, even if in small increments. This makes the game difficult to balance without a dedicated balance team (or ignoring pvp altogether). More factors to balance causes things to be complicated.

I don't think anyone is saying "XP = FORCED GRIND!" I think, instead, we are trying to point out that an XP system will have outliers on both sides: People that do not do Combat at all (one side of the bell curve) versus people that spend many hours each day fighting (the other extreme side of the bell curve). Most players will be somewhere in the middle.

For balance, the devs have to decide how to make combat possible for the "0 XP" players, while still maintaining a challenge for those in the middle, and then they have to consider if there is anything they can do to challenge the "ultrapowergrinder" few at the other extreme.

This is a lot of balance consideration that currently does not exist. Personally, I feel this is not the time to think about it, because Chucklefish has many other features they want to implement, that would not be helped by an XP system.

 

Mind you though that is also games that are build from ground up, from the start, with having these progression systems in place, meaning every mechanic is flavored by it.
Kind of like how you see that Terraria and MineCraft are similar, but are again two utterly completely different games.
MineCraft focused on building, creativity, mining and crafting while Terraria focused heavily on tier progression, combat and exploration.
Every mechanic in both of these games are heavily flavored on this exact fact, and was most definitely designed around them basically from the beginning.
Take a look at all of the game mechanics currently in Starbound, how crafting works, building works, and for that matter Tech and tier progression (I am not talking about Sectors specifically, as far as I have read, they are trying to get away from its current implementation)
Most of these mechanics are build around specifically exploration, tier progression as well as building, and I do not believe that Starbound would benefit much from Level or XP based progression.
Some sandbox games is heavily defined by RPG elements as well, take a look at Eve Online for a massive example.
Remember that reward systems determine how the game is played, and Terraria is a good example of that, it is so heavily focused on combat and tier progression that a lot of the time people really wont stop up to build.
Then there is MineCraft which basically does not truly have any reward system beyond creating content, and people tend to spend way more time constructing and mining than they do fighting or exploring.
If you add RPG elements and start rewarding combat you will see StarBound take that exact direction. And please do not give me the argument that everyone can do what they please, because people are again, heavily influenced by the reward system. This would mean that StarBound would become a combat heavy game, and may even get bad reviews, and people may feel they are having a bad game experience, if the combat end up mediocre, while if you focus on the exploration and the building as StarBound is tending towards, and they are trying to implement more and more, well... That means it can have a mediocre or even a bad combat system and get good reviews as well as good player experiences, just from the fact that a game chooses its theme based on its game mechanics and reward system.

GTA V weirdly enough had excellent reviews, but the players that have played it was kind of meh. That came from the fact that one of the main focus of the game was random carnage and epic police chases, and the game rewarded you for that, making the players engage in that behavior, while that reward mechanic has been removed from GTA V and instead focuses on the narrative and storyline. People came to the game and the game was designed around the open world mechanics, but the reward system tended towards another direction, so even if the game was great, the focus was misplaced and lead to a weird game experience. I'm not saying GTA V is a bad game, I'm just mentioning how the player interpretation of the game experience can be changed from basically just removing or adding a single feature to the game that does not fit the theme that the game is trying to convey.

EDIT: And also the arguments above are good as well.

 

i was afraid you might try to hurt yourself or something

 

I've seen a lot of people that made the statement that xp system means forced grind. It's been said many times here and at the Terraria forums when it was suggested by myself and others and is often one of the most brought up points about this being a sandbox game and not a MMO. A person in this game who's spent more time gathering materials for better armor is going to be stronger than players who freshly started anyway. Most of the time in multiplayer servers, even when I've started out with people at the same time, everyone progresses at different rates based on what they find.

People don't even seem to realize that there are dozens of ways to implent an exp system that doesn't cause interference with balance or progression. Hell I know of a sure fire way to do it, though it might require a bit of legwork on the devs part.

And again without going into the details, take a look at CREA or Darkout on how they handle it. Or games such as Wayward, while singleplayer, provide a sandbox experience with a leveling system in place that would work just fine. Most of the time from what I've read and tried to explain here and at the terraria forums however, people are not open to, or even aware, the idea exists. They just see it as a problem and don't want to even consider it because of balance issues or grind.

Point I'm trying to make is that it can work, people just have it in their minds it can't. I'm not going to go into a debate about it because I've already done it before. Just throwing it out there that there's other stuff to play that might cater to what the OP is looking for.

 

Hmm. Okay, let's try this.

What benefit do you think an XP system would add to Starbound? Does it solve a problem? Or, is it simply something you like to see in games you play?

 

Sorry no offense, but i don't feel like discussing this with you, not because I dislike what you are saying or that I don't have anything to say, just that it's waste of time considering all the topics I've seen about it and how people are mostly against it. I'd rather save the brainstorming sessions for games that already have it in mind, instead of trying to force it into this one. Again, just tossing it out there, for the OP, that there are games that already have exp systems in place, that are sandbox games. CREA and and Darkout are the two closest examples of it, but there are plenty more of them.

Thanks for listening.

 

At least your civil

Thanks for your opinion though, and thanks for your input, have a nice day

 

Given that no one can actually give a GOOD REASON for an XP system, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that asking devs to make and balance such a system is rather arrogant and self centered. An XP system for its own sake is pointless. We have Tech. We have resource progression. What purpose does XP fill that isn't already filled in the game?

 

How about "we" stop making blanket statements about what the community does or doesn't want? It's presumptuous as all hell that any one of you thinks they can speak for "the majority of people playing this game." Did I miss the "do you want an XP system in this game" poll or something? I personally want an XP system because I think it'll add more dimension to character building. It IS an rpg of sorts. We create characters, the races have lore, there are going to be quests, am I missing something? RPGs and sandboxes aren't mutually exclusive, look at fallout 3 and NV. I feel that an XP system will help this game stand on it's own, and not look like someone just reskined terarria. I've ready for something a little different that has a familiar feel, and progressing merely through equipment tiers sounds like a drag to me.

 

Try take a look at this and my other arguments, I tend not to use your so called blanket statements. Besides it is much more about how it will make the game feel, how it will affect how the players play the game and their experience based on thematic game mechanics and their consistency in staying true to the games feel.

 

You keep going "Adds dimension" and "help the game stand out on its own." How? How does an arbitrary XP system tacked onto the game help make it a better experience? In a game about nomadic exploration, what does an XP bar ADD?

This is a simple question: The fact that no one has an actual answer for it is somewhat concerning. It seems to me like people are asking for it because they like RPGs, but don't understand WHY they like RPGs. I can almost guarantee you that you don't like RPGs because you like watching an XP bar climb: You like the feeling of progression. And while XP is a progression system, it's not the ONLY progression system and it's certainly not always the BEST progression system.

 

"I keep going." LOL one post is "keeping going." The XP system doesn't have to be tied into damage/HP/energy bars if the equipment tiers are already functioning in that capacity. The XP system could be a means of unlocking access to different quests that scale with your equipment, or maybe it gives you reputation among the NPCs. It could unlock vanity items, perks, abilities. Maybe it unlocks random encounters at certain levels.

And no, I don't play RPGs to look at my level getting higher. It's satisfying watching your character progress and learn new abilities and whatnot. Finding random techs doesn't feel rewarding ATM, it's more of a "fucking FINALLY, jesus I've been looking for this crap for ages goddamn developers making these damn things so rare" feeling. Hell I can go look up coordinates for tech chests and planet hop until I get the one I want, because exploration really isn't all that fun in this game yet. I'm hoping the quests will make it so.

As it stands every single tier feels like the one before it, except you need to dig up a different colored ore that's readily available and doesn't require any special effort. It also doesn't require fighting. I basically only mined the ores needed to progress on to the next level (skipping all the weapon/armor upgrades), and did that until I hit impervium. I just stayed below the surface avoiding enemies. Occasionally my drill would run out of juice and I would have to tediously grind copper through diamond ores just to make a single drill. It's like the game punishes you for having a faster mining tool by wasting your time getting it. The mobs are more or less interchangeable and the gameplay feels exactly the same tier to tier, and really gets boring fast. It doesn't feel like progression at all. Nothing really forces you to change your approach, or really even encourages it.

 

There are always the few, just like in Terraria, that want rigid XP systems, or classes or what not. Frankly, I think it would ruin the game and make it even more linear (since there are ALWAYS optimized builds), and as has been mentioned, this is something a mod could probably add without a whole lot of problems.

Just to add to that, unless you have a poll, don't generalize. You have no idea who wants it and who doesn't unless you have actual numbers.

 

The only leveling up that I think would work in this game would be like a "Proficiency" System, where different actions made you more proficient when using other types of the same item. Take a pickaxe for example, using a pickaxe a lot would level up your pickaxe proficiency making them last longer or mine faster. You would have to have a cap on proficiencies though, because otherwise it would defeat the purpose of tiers. But you get what I mean. Any other "Build" type leveling up wouldn't help the game in my opinion...

 

Honestly I'm against proficiency. Features of better weapons and tools already exists. It's called tier progression.

And to one of the other gus. XP for unlockable abilities, definitely no thanks. Vanity items. What if the vanity I needbto make my house is at lvl 30 and I'm level 5 ? I'll have to mindlessly kill mobs to get that item I want for a decorativs house.

 

I will repeat what I said a few pages back.

Why don't people just treat and utilize pixels as XP points? With regards to proficiency, just make weapons upgradable so that they have the same effect as being proficient with that weapon. Upgrading your drill to have harder tip and faster spin makes you mine faster. Upgrading the weapon material makes it lighter making you swing it faster. You get pixels from killing monsters and refining ores so it benefits both miners and adventurers. If the ability to sell is added, you can even gain pixels just by farming and selling your produce.

It is up to the devs on how they implement and balance upgrade using pixels but this is a much creative way to approach the problem rather than go to the usual method of implementing XP.