Could you please hurry up with the exp system?

While I would agree that Starbound needs to differentiate itself more from games that inspired it, like Minecraft... no.
Just... no.

Starbound is, first and foremost, a sandbox game. To turn it into just another of a long line of RPGs out there would be a sad day, especially at this stage of development where players are getting used to the Beta and - for the most part - raving about the system.

To each their own... I guess?
I'm loving it.

Anyway, there are plenty of mods available on the official site that nerf the mining and crafting aspects considerably. Maybe mods like Better Ores, Smelting Mod, Matter Exchange, and Endgame Mattermanipulators would suit you?

As for killing things, perhaps you'd like Hunt 4 MeatS and some of the large number of weapons mods?

 

I'm really REALLY glad there isn't an exp system. Hopefully they never implement one.

 

I am strongly against a EXP system. It's already bad enough that starbound has a ridiculously strong damage, armor and HP curve like MMORPGs, it doesn't need the grindfest as well.

 

I don't think (besides OP) I've talked to anyone on here who is all about an EXP system in a game that doesn't need it. It'd render the game almost unplayable, it'd make making tons of characters pointless and time consuming. Overall, it =

 

...
...
...
Doing the xp system is not only...
doing it.

It is also having to redo EVERYTHING about monsters/weapon balance...
Even adding a little boost in combat change everything...
Even something like speed or jump bonus can change the way
the monsters have to react to be... dangerous.

Already, be balance is a pain in the ass...
be aware of the work it would take....
and not necessarily for the good.

A lot of useful stuff need to be add before to think something like xp.
(and note than I am saying that... when I am a rpg lover..)

 

first of all, I like how you're complaining about a system that doesn't exist
If they implement this correctly, there won't be excessive need for grinding. the coal-mining grinding as it currently is will probably be fixed as more patches come out, plenty people have complained about the expensive travel already.

You won't need to grind early in the game, you would progress naturally as you explore planets and kill monsters. don't tell me you expect to get to the X-sector without ever killing any monsters?

You guys act like you've never played an RPG in your life, and just have some sort of ingrained mental association that any sort of level system automatically means you're going to be grinding for hours on end. Please stop posting 'I hate XP don't implement it because its going to mean grinding!' without putting any sort of thought into your words.

 

The XP Boon is mostly just a "Carrot on a Stick" in some games, like Darksiders 2, which definitely did not need it.
There is no reason to add XP to a game that does not need it, because it becomes just a number that you want to increase.
And no kidding, I get to X sector with a very minimal amount of killing, most of my Pixels I gain from refining, I don't find combat to be that exciting to be honest, so my playstyle has to be completely nerfed because somebody wants Combat XP? Are you kidding me?
Then if you add XP to mining as well, then you are suddenly sitting in a situation where you could just as well NOT have the XP system, if it is just part of the natural progression of the game.
Then you are just adding a redundant feature to the game with no purpose.
And if you add talent trees and the likes, and especially with a character limit or an XP Curve, then you are suddenly looking at people having to grind the fuck out of stuff.
Also this is also a negative side effect to people joining server side character servers where they are not getting their XP from the Singleplayer they have grinded up, and suddenly deters them from the multiplayer experience.

There is a ton of arguments against XP in Starbound but very few for.

The game doesn't need it, and therefor it should not be in the game.

 

Starbound doesn't 'need' multiple biomes, it doesn't 'need' multiple races, etc.
It's a matter of making an aspect of the game more fun.
And combat, while decent, could be made more interesting

the idea of multiple playstyles I support, but I don't see how you would be affected. my earlier post about getting to the X-sector without combat, i take that back. the only fighting you really need is the boss.
But having weapon proficiency and levelling shouldn't affect you, if you say you can get to the X-sector without any combat in the first place

I don't really think XP to mining is a very good idea, although perhaps you could have a minor 'speed' stat which would increase use of any weapon or tool slightly.

Also I don't see why XP from single player would not transfer to multiplayer like every other character quality does.

The only argument against XP is that it would cause excessive grinding, which isn't necessarily true.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to take the combat route like me, and find it to be more fun and exciting than mining endlessly...
so why not make it a little bit more special and exciting?
otherwise, they're almost doing the opposite to having multiple routes to the same endgame: you have to focus and economics rather than combat because the combat is boring and the only way to get better at fighting is to mine for ore and craft better weapons

 

Actually it NEEDS multiple biomes to even function properly, otherwise there will be no exploration, so Multiple Biomes is there specifically to make exploration possible.
It doesn't need multiple races, but it doesn't change gameplay much, and allows for more character customization which is a big boon for multiple players.
The reasons why I would be affected for example if proficiency is tied to using the weapon, remember that the game will be balanced around the fact that more proficiency means better weapons, which means better monsters. So if I get to X Sector with very limited fighting, when I arrive I will suddenly look at monsters I will either not be able to, or barely be able to kill, you know, for when you do meet a monster you can't escape, or to get that chest it is guarding.

Did you even read what I said about multiplayer? I said SERVER SIDE CHARACTER SERVERS which means that is the servers where the servers save the character, yes it will not transfer then. And believe me, most servers will have server side only, at least the public ones.

Let me go through Pro's and Con's:
Carrot on a Stick: (People have a reason to keep playing just to increase an arbitrary number to the point where there is no challenge yet.)
Watching a Number grow.
People doing a lot of combat in multiplayer will be (Beyond practice) superior in fights.

Con's:
More grinding to a game that depends on heavy grinding
Limiting playstyles due to combat being a necessary element to the game, meaning people will have to grind mobs even more than just fighting for pixels early.
Makes the game much harder to balance properly, making the game needlessly easier or harder because of a number, based on the amount of grind they had the patience to do.
Server-Side character servers will most likely see even less play, because people will be very hard pressed to both abandon their Tier progression as well as their XP Progression.
IF the system is made to have a natural curve making extra grinding useless, it is just an arbitrary number that does nothing but be a Carrot on a Stick, meaning it is redundant.
People playing a game like this wants to Craft, Fight and Explore, but again, Combat XP will then tend people towards grinding monsters rather than Craft and Explore.

And as I have said a thousand times, XP is not a bad idea in general, it is just a bad idea for the CORE game.
A MOD would be FANTASTIC! But... For the core game, it would be a horrible idea.

Let me explain the example of Darksiders 2 which implemented two completely unneeded features that becomes quite a bit of frustrating.

XP and Random gear.
The reason they added it in Darksiders 2 was to be a Carrot on a Stick, keep people playing because of a number, and makes them grind a bit to even get through some levels.
It was a genre that did not need it, because it was a 3D semi-linear narrative platformer, which the first was fantastic as.

Random gear:
Another carrot on a stick, people will just keep playing just to find even more gear to then be able to finish the game, and you actually did need good gear, otherwise you would not get through the game at any decent pace and without the best reflexes ever.

That was a game that needed neither of those features, as the game itself focuses on a great narrative, puzzles, platforming and excellent combat. It was most likely only added to make people more hooked to the game, and becomes a pretty arbitrary number that does nothing but take away from the game experience.

Now you have the actual RPG games where XP is FANTASTIC!, like utterly AMAZING... I tell you in an actual RPG system it is like the best thing EVER, but in a game as Starbound that is focused on three things: Combat, Exploration, Crafting.... It is not needed, and will be an annoying feature designed to make you play the game for longer just to grind... For some people that does not enjoy combat, it would become a great frustration. Like me.

MAKE A MOD, NOT GOOD FOR CORE GAME.

 

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm suggesting...
What I'm suggesting is you use a weapon a lot, and get a bonus for using it so much. Example: I've used this sword to kill 60 beasts, now I have an increased 5% chance to do critical damage. Another: I've used a gun to shoot 110 beasts. Now when I use a gun, I have a bonus of +5 aim or damage. And so on...

Maybe proficiency is the wrong word, actually. I am not suggesting and drawbacks or limitations on weapon use due to your skills.

Your pro/con list is thoughtful, but pretty much worthless since you are incredibly biased to begin with and failed to make an objective comparison

Pros:
Should someone choose to take the combat playstyle route, they will be rewarded for their hard work in the same way a miner is rewarded with tools to craft.
It allows players to become attached to a weapon that they like, and enjoy it more than usual.

The number is not arbitrary. I'm not sure you know what that word means...

And once again, you're criticising a system that doesn't exist.
You need to think for a second... do you really think the devs are going to allow players to get extremely strong in PvP?
Obviously some sort of cap will be implemented, an example: Until you reach the Gamma sector, your combat perk on aim will be limited to +6. Until you reach the Delta sector, limited to +10.

I think you should write this on a stick note and attach it to the inside of your eyelids:
It doesn't necessarily mean grinding.
It doesn't limit playstyles, it only enhances one of the options; are you not the same person that just told me they got to the X-sector with little-to-no combat? Your argument isn't even consistent.

Are the Darksiders 2 developers working on Starbound now? No? Then why mention it? Because you're scared that maybe the developers will do a poor job (which would be ignoring my suggestion) and make it unfun?
Oh no, boo-hoo. It's not like this is a Beta or anything.

I find it interesting where you're describing something that's supposedly frustrating--
(

when that is pretty much how Starbound is right now. With combat you have the option to become more powerful with the gear you currently have, rather be ever-mining (grinding) to craft the newest and greatest armour and weapons.

It doesn't have to affect you at all, so what you're basically doing right now is saying 'I really want you to not enjoy this aspect of the game simply because I would not!'

 

I don't want an exp system. :l

...

And what?... The devs at Chucklefish are some of the most effecient and fast moving devs I've seen work in awhile. They are by no means slow. Some of the feats they're pulling off in such a short amount of time is rather impressive.

 

That is exactly what I am addressing.


If it is only THAT specific weapon you are using, this will be a feature that will be useless until end game, and at end game it will just make fighting monsters even easier and make the combat rather dull at the end.
If you are talking about weapon types, well then you are going to have to make balance based on this system, which means people not grinding that 5% crit or 5% extra damage will have a harder time, do remember even though 5% sounds like a little, it is some times the difference between 3 hits and 4 hits to kill.
And if we are going to make the numbers that small, you are once again just redundantly rewarding players and the mechanic becomes as little as a carrot on a stick for a severely small bonus that still needs to be addressed during balancing.

And I think you just clarified it is per weapon basis... You do know, that unless it is not present on lower level weapons, these weapons will become a frustration to lose.
Again a Darksiders 2 example, there are "Possessed" gear you could feed other gear into to make them better. Now this Possessed gear at some point becomes obsolete, but because you wasted so many resources as well as so much time on that weapon, it becomes frustrating to leave behind, and you end up feeding it to a new Possessed item and the cycle continues. Making that whole system very annoying and frustrating rather than rewarding.

Oh also, saying Should someone choose to take the combat playstyle route.... Again just by having the feature in the game, players will tend towards that playstyle.
This is something that everyone knows... If you play an RPG that allows you to do a shit ton of different stuff, but you only get XP for fighting... Well then players will tend towards fighting no matter what...
Whenever there is a reward system for something in a game, then players will tend towards what ever gives that reward, and sometimes even when that preferred playstyle is not something the player enjoys, making him frustrated at the game because he is forced to do it. Again I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Firstly, that is the whole point of the suggestions section.
Secondly, I've tried a multitude of different progression systems, and XP progression systems are fantastic for certain games, while it has a detrimental effect on others.
Look at games like Battlefield 3-4, Call of Duty and so on, they have unlockable weapons for playing a shit ton, all this adds is a Carrot on a Stick to keep players playing, and adding a distinct barrier between unlevelled players and levelled players, and the same will happen in Starbound... So if someone wants to PvP that will be forced to do a shit ton of PvE grind to do it, especially detrimental if the only style of combat the player enjoys is PvP combat, but loves to mine.

Well if it doesn't contain grinding, there is literally even less point of adding it, then it isn't even a Carrot on a stick and just a redundant feature, but no matter what, for some people this will become a grind, no matter what.
As I said, I get from A-X with very little combat, I get to X, now I feel I need that rewarding feeling and I will end up sitting grinding through a shit ton of combat just to get that little boon.
And even then, one of two things can happen:
Devs balance the end game content towards the XP System: Meaning that there will most likely be a tier within the tier... Now we are talking Tierception...
Devs don't balance the end game content towards the XP System: As soon as you have received your reward, and grinded your way up, you suddenly have little to no combat challenge anymore.

Okay, if you do not understand the concept of bringing in other relevant topics from the outside, well then just forget it, but it is a very valid concern.
Besides, I've told you a ton of times, make a Mod, this suggestion is much better suited as a Mod rather than part of the core game.

If you haven't noticed, there is two ways of progressing in this game currently, and both are required.
Exploration and Crafting.
Exploration for Guns and Tech
Crafting for Armor and Melee weapons.
Combat is just a sub part of Exploration, and Crafting requires little to no combat.
Again, the fact that you do the ever-mining grinding is exactly what this genre of game makes you do, and is the reason why quite an amount of people play it.
Otherwise you could just as well play any other Arcade Combat game which.... Wait for it.... has a lot better combat system.
Adding more unnecessary grind on top of the hours upon hours of mining will become excruciatingly frustrating for me to do.
So I just grinded to be forced to grind more to be able to play this game efficiently? Come on...

You keep mentioning that it wont be a grind, but no matter how you look at it, weapon subtype, or specific weapons, it becomes a grind...
There is no way of going around that fact, and even then people will be a lot less inclined to try out new weaponry, or change up their playstyle mid game, because they either already have a levelled weapon, or because they haven't trained other weapon types.

Think about it... It is a redundant Core feature.

A GREAT IDEA FOR A MOD! A GREAT IDEA FOR THE RPG LOVERS OUT THERE, BUT NOT THE CORE GAME.

Saying that RPG elements should be in to add diversity to the game is like saying we need to have chicken hats with beam lasers to add diversity to the game.
That is for mods to add.

Core game needs to be simple to use, easy to expand on.... Like MineCraft (Except for the fact that mods are hard to make for MineCraft, the base game is still easy to expand upon.)

To many features and the game will drown in features.


EDIT & PS: To reiterate...
Adding a Carrot on a Stick to a game is something Developers always needs to be careful about, because it will make the players tend towards that direction.
Another Example: In Dungeons and Dragons you are supposed to be able to get out of most situations without combat, but there is a reward system (In the core system) that rewards you for combat... So again, you will most likely gravitate towards that playstyle.
Raiding your friends houses in Skyrim can be very rewarding... So people gravitate towards that...
Killing dragons gives you unique rewards... Players gravitate towards that...
GTA IV... Has a very linear reward system, and doesn't reward you for random rampage anymore... People gravitate towards the storyline.
Can I think of anymore examples?
Oh yes, you get a tiny number on your K/D/A meter in League of Legends and Dota for last hitting people, so people will tend towards last hitting other players.

Rewards are a very powerful tool when used correctly, and can be utterly devastating to a games feel if done uncorrectly, or if it does not fit the game.
(Kind of like playing Splinter Cell, and they added XP or just even a number like a Score for killing guards, then people gravitate towards doing that. People get rewarded for doing it stealthy, and people will attempt that most of the time then)

 

Yes, there would be bonuses for spending time doing certain activities. The problem comes when you try to balance content. If someone can hack and slash Tier1 planets long enough, will they be able to 1-shot T2 mobs? If so, T2 mobs need to be tougher, to handle the rare case when someone grinds lvl2 boars for weeks on end. The problem with this, is that for some players, those T2 mobs are easy to moderate difficulty (those who grinded) and for some players those T2 mobs are impossible (no grinding).

Congrats. You've chosen to take the combat route in an exploration/building game. No, you don't get benefits over the explorers or builders. You picked the wrong path. This is like playing Hello Kitty Online Adventure for the combat. Hint: That isn't going to work.

If the XP system amounts to +1 damage per attack, do you really feel this is worth the time to implement, balance, and test? If the XP system amounts to 300% damage, do you think this will not impact the difficulty of mobs at each tier?

I don't think you understand game design, or game balance. A system must be balanced for the average user, but also be able to prevent edge cases. In this case, it's Mr. "I have no coal, so I'm going to kill every boar on this planet for a week until my older brother shows me how to use this weird weapon that does no damage". The devs do not want this player to experience a ridiculously-easy game, so they can either balance the world to be stronger universally (thus making it harder for every other player) or make the world stronger just for him (negating the very benefits he got from XP).

Also, this DOES limit playstyles. If you add an XP system, it means that some players will be stronger than others. How do you balance the game, and make sure that everyone is having a good experience? You can't easily, because players are very different now.

I think they're pointing out that it would take a lot of time for Devs to implement, test, and balance. If you don't enjoy games that include combat but do not have XP systems, then I think you want to play an RPG. This is not that RPG.

 

I...I think that would be neat... =P

 

Trololool
When I think about it, we do need Chicken hats with beam lasers

 

It's not forceing the players towards combat, it's balancing it. As of now, all the good things come from mining to crafting and exploring (stealing weapons).
Of the three playstyles you mentioned, combat is the weakest and least fun, but in my mind has the potential to be very fun.

The weapon levelling system makes your weapons become obsolete less often. and if the skill was based on weapon-types, this wouldn't be an issue.

You're almost frustrating me, forgive me but it seems like you're basically saying that since grinding exists, whether or not if affects you in any way, you don't want it.
That's selfish. If I want to spend my time getting pixels by killing monsters, let me. This isn't your game.
How can you not understand that I find grinding in mining forever as boring as you find grinding by killing monsters? There should be the option of which you want to do.

Also, I see you retconned your 'three playstyles' to now be two, excluding combat.

This doesn't have to affect your playstyle. That's all I'm going to say, and it's all you need to hear. Hopefully the devs will try something like this regardless of your whining about it.
It could the game more fun for me and doesn't affect you. The end.

Well, I was thinking there'd be caps on your perks for tiers, that way you could not get very powerful only grinding tier-1 monsters.

Hey asshat, this isn't your game. Why do you get to decide that combat has to be secondary and not improved anymore?
This is a beta. I'm making suggestions to this game, you cannot tell me I'm 'playing it wrong'
These perks would not give benefits over explorers and crafters, it would only balance the three options.

There is a happy medium, you know. It doesn't have to be either +1 or +300, there are a few numbers in between there I think. why so negative?

It doesn't have to limit playstyles. You said this would make some players stronger than others... gee really? You mean just like grinding ores does?

You two are the most negative, awful people. Automaticall assuming the worst-possible scenario to this.
Why don't you understand that I'm not trying to 'morph' this game into an RPG. I'm simply suggesting we bring up the combat to the quality of the other methods in this game, which would balance 3 options.
Do you not agree that three playstyles is better than 2? You're the one being limiting here.

It almost sounds like you're the one trying to force the game to be only the thing that you want it to be and not fun for different people.

For the eight-hundredth time: It doesn't have to affect your playing.
You should be able to reach the same number of pixels, the same good fighting ability, the same sectors through fighting (getting good at killing mobs for pixels and then printing your good items), mining (selling ores for pixels, crafting good items from your ores), or exploring (trading with NPCs, finding pixel canisters deep underground, finding techs).

 

Combat is built into Exploration.

Besides if you want to play a game exclusively for combat, then going to an open world game based around the concepts of exploration and mining, as well as building is probably a wrong choice, you should probably look for 2D Action based combat games which will facilitate your needs of combat.

And just so you know, right now Exploration and Mining does two completely different things, which is great.

One makes you better, by allowing you to find tech, and a lot of decorative items.
The other progresses the game and tiers.

Besides, there is already a carrot for doing combat, and that is pixels. Right now you can choose to fight monsters for pixels (And gain good amounts of pixels really fast) or decide grind and grind and grind mining for pixels with the refinery (Which is rather slow and not very time effective).
Here there is two choices on how to progress through the game.

No matter how you design the combat of the game (Except if Monsters suddenly start to drop ores once in a while...) it will never be the main focus of this game, as progress will not be attained through it.

The replayability of this game will very much be based on four things: Building, Multiplayer PvE, Mods and Multiplayer PvP

AND AS I HAVE SAID A MILLION TIMES... AN XP SYSTEM, EVEN A FULL BLOWN MMO TOTAL CONVERSION IS ALL GREAT IDEAS FOR STARBOUND....

As a Mod...

Combat should not need an XP system or even further rewards for doing combat, as right now combat has a secondary reward of allowing you to explore which then in turn allows you the exploration rewards, already gives you the pixels and so on.

If you want fun combat you should rather look into expanding on the combat system and making options to how you fight, in terms of more combat moves and combo fighting, which will make the COMBAT more fun....

PS:
Yes I retconned it into two, as I also explained in previous posts that.... Wait for it.... COMBAT is an integral part of Exploration... You know, Dungeons, getting around on a planet, and so on...

And I get frustrated as well with you selfishly (Yes I'm using your own words against you) want an XP system, even though this topic and the amount of replies for and against are pretty much on the against side. The game does not need the XP system to attain what it wants, and any reward system will gravitate people towards that playstyle.
Right now there is two main playstyles:
Exploration (WHICH INCLUDES COMBAT), rewards you with decorative items, tech, and Pixels, and you can actually progress through the whole game only exploring (Because bars drop in chests)
And Mining (Which includes very little combat), rewards you with fast tier progression and access to some decorative items that can only be crafted, as well as the Wiring system.
And then there is the times when the two Playstyles mesh:
Crafting the boss spawner to then fight the Boss, it takes the Combat and Combines with the crafting.
Both of these playstyles have their own rewards and benefits gravitating most if not all players towards both of them.

Take a look at the game, notice how it works, and even without the game being finished, the reward system itself feels pretty polished.
Now they just need to amp up the rewards by adding more exploration content.

Remember what the games main focus are, remember what the game is based around, remember what playstyle the genre of game wants to go for, and you might notice that an XP system will feel very redundant... Play Darksiders 2 and you will see what I mean.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention...
About me not liking grinding, I love grinding, if it fits the game... Like Mining grinding, I love mining grinding, some love Combat grinding and get extreme amounts of Pixels, some people love Exploring the shit out of the galaxy, and grinding planet through planet..

This whole GAME IS A GRIND... and there is no need to add any reward system that will make either the balance skewed, or force players to grind combat.
And if you don't like Mining, you are most likely playing the wrong game already.
That would be like playing MineCraft and saying you don't want to mine ever... Come on.

 

Out of curiousity, do you feel that insulting us advances your ideas? Or is it simply something you do to engender yourself to your audience?

 

Fun fact, it is actually my game, as well as your game, as well as his game, and about a million more peoples game.
I don't think he understands as far as I can tally, just by quick glance and a decent guesstimate that the people for and against in this topic alone seems to at least 2:1 to the side of not wanting it

But yeah.... Besides I did several times say, it is a good idea... For a Mod...

 

just a little reminder you're on a suggestion forum for a game in its beta stage