Chat Congrats? On Brexit.

So, being in London, Chuclefish, are you guys happy with the exit from the EU? Any plan changes or thoughts on the whole deal, folks?

Looking over the pros and cons, I feel that you, our neighbors across the pond, made a good choice. You get an Independence Day too now!

 

wait, wait. there are pros? no-one told me!
But seriously, this is definitely a bad choice, and is terrible and horrible and awful and please give me money

we've already got a petition against it with 400,000 signatures, and we only need 100,000 to force parliament to debate it.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

 

Doesn't England have the only real military as well?

and change always causes issues... that will remedy itself, and I think the Brits will be far better after it.

 

The pound crashed immediately and is at its worst since 1985. I think the 'experts that say the country will end up in financial trouble' have already been proven right.

And do you know why the economy crashed? Because all the rich people pulled out. Why did they pull out? Because the experts said that the country would have financial trouble.

 

You cannot be seriously that blind. There's reports of countless leave voters already regretting their stupid decision and showing how they had no flying fuck what they were actually voting in favor of

 

Stock Markets and their people panic anytime something major happens. If they'd stop with the stupid panicking and going "OH NO WHAT IF I GO BROKE, I GOTTA DO SOMETHING!" and they try to sell everything off and BAM. Market Crash.

Well, see, if they DIDN'T panic, then this WOULDN'T happen, ne?

But no, EXPERTS said this would happen. Yeah, of course it would happen, because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Fact is, I think they did it on purpose. The Rich have a vested interest in keeping the thing going, because they LIKE their lax international laws, so they can set up their factories in sweatshops in third-world countries so they can get rich off of someone else's hard work.

They were basically stamping their feet going "You take our sweatshops away from us and we'll crash your market!" And guess what? They are trying to do just that. The normal people need to dig their heels in, and say NO to the Rich Elite. We're tired of them sitting around doing nothing while making all the money off of our hard work.

Globalization is NOT a good thing. Nations exist for a reason. Trying to make a utopia where everybody's forced to be friends with each other, where we basically take down our borders (which were there for a reason), is not a good thing. Look at the Immigrant Crisis. Open Borders are very bad, mmmkay?

This is a positive step towards saying NO to Globalization. Nations should be nations, with their own rules and their own peoples. Travel between nations should be a thing, but only with proper papers to stop stuff like, I don't know, ISIS from spreading.

Global Markets tend to be bad for everybody involved (How's that EU thing going for Greece nowadays?). The powerhouses end up being beaten into the ground (UK and US) with these multi-nation deals and blocs while everybody else gets to profit off of their hard work. The US sends BILLIONS to weak countries. Instead of the weak countries trying to get stronger, they kick back their feet and relax while sucking off of our teats while we do all the hard work. They take our money and our jobs and milk us dry while the companies owned by rich people end up operating in other countries with more lax laws so that they can pay the workers almost nothing.

It's a bad deal all the way around.

EDIT: But sadly, since the "normal" people are already quivering in fear... looks like the Rich still got the rest of the world by the balls. One of these days, one of these days they need to be taught a valuable lesson in that the Rich can do nothing without the poor workers doing everything for them. They are only rich because the poor allow them to be rich. The poorer people need to stop quivering in fear, and stand up and say Enough.

 

The immigrant crisis is not a crisis. Open borders are not a bad thing. If an immigrant gets a job and pays our taxes, what are they doing wrong? Immigrants are being used as a scapegoat to explain why the governments of the world cannot handle the expanding population.

 

Millions of people pouring into places where there weren't those millions of people before is not a good thing, lol.

"If an immigrant gets a job and pays taxes".... is the unemployment rate of your country zero or near-zero? No? Then I'm quite sure that there are jobseekers in your country who would liked to have had those jobs.

I haven't heard of a country yet that has more jobs than job-seekers. It tends to be the other way around, with there not being enough jobs to go around. Taking in a few million immigrants is not going to help that one bit. And if they pay the taxes...

Praytell, what kind of taxes are immigrants who are financially poor going to pay? They came out of war-torn places that had a crumbling infrastructure, including education. This means that at best, they have what, a Highschool Diploma? What kind of job does a Highschool Diploma get you these days? Probably barely above minimum wage, right?

What kind of taxes does a minimum wage job pay over there in the UK? Dunno about UK but here in the US, people on minimum wage pay almost zero income tax (and if you're below 40hr min wage because you got a parttime job, you get something called Earned Income Credit).

Meanwhile, these immigrants are seeking jobs and taking them from the citizens that were already there, they are using healthcare services, and governments are trying to set up programs to give these people even more benefits and help.... when the citizens need such help.

Over here in the US, Obama's trying to help the immigrants by giving them medical care, etc... I'm a US Citizen, Born&Raised as were my parents. Guess what? I don't have health insurance and I can't afford the ridiculous premiums (which are gonna get worse next year if Hillary's elected...) they want me to pay... but yet, illegal immigrants get free medical? Wut? How's that supposed to be fair?

 

You know what else brings in millions of people? Children. They come in here, avoiding tax for 18 years, and expect a job out of it! The nerve!
If there's not enough jobs, that's the government's fault, not the immigrants. You can't blame the river for the flood.

So what you're saying is that the poor people are bad for the country? That those who don't have any skills, regardless of how well-intentioned they are, are the people in the wrong?

I'm actually unable to work so i haven't been able to get a job and have never paid my own taxes. :(

Again, if they're paying taxes, why is them taking a job a problem? Would you rather that they didn't get a job? That they live off of our welfare system instead? Or would you rather have them stay in their own countries and never have a chance at contributing to a fair and equal society?
Healthcare next. Do you think immigrants should not be allowed healthcare? Or that only those who are a benefit to society should have their lives saved? I don't know about you, but the idea that healthcare isn't a basic human right sounds completely barbaric to me.

 

To anyone who thinks we're making it up that people who voted leave now regret their stupid decision.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html

 

No, you can't blame a river for a flood, but when you throw the switch on the river's dam, you have every right to complain about flooding, because maybe you should have kept the dam shut.

No. However, again, introducing MORE poor people into the country might not be the best of ideas when you've already got a lot of poor people.

Assuming you're not an immigrant, you get perks due to your citizenship, and that's reasonable enough.

They're not paying taxes, though. That's the whole point. If they're gobbling up minimum wage jobs which the citizens' kids and young adults need, then there's no jobs left for the citizens' kids, and those kinds of jobs don't pay enough for the government to charge them taxes.

Maybe these people should stand up to their governments and fix things in their home countries, instead of letting their governments walk all over them instead?

If there's healthcare to go around after the citizens have theirs, sure, give immigrants healthcare. If there's not enough jobs, not enough healthcare, not enough money to handle the burden... then I'm sorry... there's no room for the immigrants. Immigrants are OK as long as they can pay their way and have skills we actually are in need of... but if not... well there's only so much we can do.

If we have citizens who are deprived of jobs and healthcare, we need to seed about feeding our own citizens before we try feeding everybody else, first.

And yes, I wholly agree -- the sad state of our own citizens, where we have so many unemployed and people without healthcare, YES, that is totally the government's fault. Absolutely.

However, letting MORE impoverished people in is only going to make the problem worse!

Let's say you're the head of a household that's barely making ends meet. You barely have enough food for your family of, say, 4 to live. You got a wife and 2 kids, and you can barely afford to feed yourselves, you got minimal healthcare, and suddenly a beggar knocks on your door asking to move in with you. Said beggar has no job, and no skills to actually get a job, and one of your kids is about to turn 18 in a few months and will be seeking a job himself.

Are you going to let the beggar in, knowing you can't even feed your own family, let alone take someone else in? You wouldn't do that, would you?

Then why are we doing it on a national scale?

 

You guys, Cameron has stepped down, things can only go up from here.

 

Ah, so you're saying we shouldn't introduce poor people into the country? That we should specifically keep out those with low income jobs?

I thought we were talking about Legal immigrants. If they're not paying taxes, then yes that's a problem.

Sometimes, all the goodwill in the world isn't enough to fix a nation. For example, North Korea. North Korea is a terribly corrupt place. If a family from North Korea escaped their country and found themselves on your border, would you turn them back?
It's not that immigrants don't want to fix their nation. It's that they've lost hope of ever doing it.

That's not a very apt metaphor. You're implying that all immigrants are poor and uneducated, and that the country itself can 'barely make ends meet' - which if it were true, would result in more emmigration than immigration. Were my house the only place within a few miles, i would welcome them in - but if there's a place nearby that would be better suited to helping them (eg a shelter or a hostel) i would point them in that direction.

A governments first priority should always be the welfare of it's citizens, and i suppose the real question is "What does a person have to do to become a citizen, and why do they have to do it?"
For me, as long as someone is willing to follow our rules and contribute to society, i would welcome them as a brother or sister.

I never liked cameron, but i don't think he was entirely the problem.

 

I'm not even into all this that deep, but the sole rebellion against the idea of a united force that you don't mess with upsets me.

 

Yeah, it was pretty silly. People did it as a protest, they voted for the stupid option because they thought it wouldn't affect the result.
I don't think they should have done so. I hope america learns from this before their next election.

 

Wow, people these days really can't stand in for how they act.

All of them were like: "Well, i didn't really wanted GB to leave, i thought it was an experiment "

 

Hey all,

I know that this is a pretty emotional topic for some people (political topics usually are), so just a quick reminder to keep it friendly. You don't need to agree with someone, of course, but you do need to respect them.

Thanks.