Coloured Blocks

Even though we keep talking about dirt, we are really talking about everything.

It's kinda like how the raft in Huckleberry Fin symbolizes freedom, and the river symbolizes life.

I'm hoping for a special shovel for digging up sapplings/whole trees and transplanting them.

 

I just had another thought, while replying to Luvdisc's other thread.

How are trees and plants going to be handled? Mostly trees... I mean afterall, if everything just sort of magics it's way to this environment, does that mean I can't get eyeball trees from one planet and mix and match trees? Since ALL TREES will grow in the same way as trees on that planet do? Otherwise you're adding more stuff to the inventory to manage, it's more clutter which seems to be a big concern for most of the option 3 people. That means no unique trees on a planet you settle on, it's those trees or no trees.

(Edit: LuvDisc beat me on the tree thing, point stands.)

I realize this next arguement is taking it to the extreme, so if you quote it, please quote this statment as well.
Just making sure I had your attention on that line before I went on. So far most of these discussions have been in the lines of "this is to much, to many options" etc. Simple is better (For those heavily for option3) some are of the mindset 10 colors is ok, or 100 colors. Well to that I say, why do we have 16 quadrillion planets? No one is complaining that, that is in excess. Even though no one person can visit them all in a life time (Short of immortality or an elf or something.) So why do we need that many? To feel unique I'm guessing, so each person has a more diverse play-through, so it's not the same game arranged differently over and over again. (Terraria, Minecraft, I'm looking at you.) Why do we have MILLIONS of combinations for weapons? Isn't that in excess? I'm sure 100,000 different melee, and ranged weapons would be fine for people. Hell Terraria doesn't have close, and Minecraft has even less un-modded. So why the need for millions?

Why the need for such an in-depth and (In my opinion) awesome monster generator? It's in excess is it not? You don't need THAT many different monsters to fight do you? Why not make it so your gun changes to better suit the planet you've beamed down on, and you never get a new gun. Set it so the player has armor, two one-handed ranged weapons, a two-handed ranged weapon, and the same for melee. That just change for each planet you're on. Why bother giving people the choice of more? Extreme? Maybe...that's the same way I feel about colors, is that excessive? Perhaps...what in Starbound isn't? The artists, coders and devs have all gone through pain-staking processes to ensure this game has millions (Quite literally and more in many cases) of options for a ton of stuff, guns, swords etc. Why limit colors? Why is it, inventory managment is such an issue when there are millions of other things? There are 40 spaces for non-standard building materials (Dirt, stone, gravel etc) and 40 spaces for other things, guns...food, armor, furniture, melee weapons, tech items, outfits (This list keeps going) Yet...people are worried about inventory managment on building blocks? Sure after you're 5th or 6th planet I'd assume it's gonna be cluttered, but my guess? You've already emptied and organized your inventory a couple times by the time you even NEED to look at that other inventory for concerns of it being full. For that matter, why not just clean it when you clean the other one?

 

The random attributes of monsters is an important part of preventing the combat from going stale. If you only fight the same monsters, even if there are a hundred of them, it gets old because you can predict it with ease. To reflect the changes to attributes, each monster needs to look different so that you can recognize that it isn't the same thing you encountered before. Having multiple options for equipment is important for the gameplay as well, and the appearance changes serve a similar purpose as they do with mobs.

For blocks it is an aesthetic issue only. Not a bad point, though.

 

But all of that would change with each new planet anyway. So...why isn't it an issue to just give everyone a single set of everything? Monsters will be somewhat varied (Different with each planet as it is now) Your gear changes with you, just like the blocks do. Seems just fine, if not then it's about making the game fun, same thing as something as simple as colors is for others.

 

I would be absolutely okay with having certain guns that change depending on the environment. In fact, I think that would be a really awesome and unique feature for them. I also like the idea of some blocks changing depending on their environments. For example, glass lets certain kinds of light shine through and changes appearance that way.

Not all blocks would auto-match the planet, same as not all gear would. In fact, since the number of craftable bricks probably FAR exceeds the number of natural block types and those bricks wouldn't change, it's similar to how most guns would retain their form across all planets. I'm actually really starting to like this idea. Thanks!

 

i say 3 makes the most sence, that and i dont want like 10401348 types of dirt cloged up in my storage

 

My point on the subject.

If I'm not mistaken, there's already been said that there will be an additional inventory screen just for building blocks, to evade mixing of weapons and consumables with wood and stone. Which is a good idea and could be expanded, read more.

Here is what I am suggesting: instead of secondary inventory screen similar to first, you can take another paradigm, as in "unlimited inventory space for building blocks". Think about it: the fact that a person can carry several hundreds of cubic (or square in 2d game, heh) meters of stone, clay and whatever else is completely irrealistic by itself. But no one cares, successfully suspending the disbelief. So, another step — making your storage of gathered blocks unlimited — is completely natural.

Reasoning as "but that would be imbalanced in some ways, because player won't be required to travel to his base to dump several thousands units of dirt" is just a promotion of artificial difficulty. There is nothing challenging whatsoever in this storaging hauls, and they are boring. Ergo, they are redundant.

So. Here is what I suggest.



There are two areas on this mockup of a secondary inventory screen, dedicated to blocks keeping — or, more precisely, mockup of a block pallete. I'll start from the bottom one.

We can see that the character have 276 blocks of Dirt, followed by 53 blocks of Wood, et cetera. Now, what types/colors are these Dirt and Wood? Answer is "any kind you want, within reasons".

1. Our character has an option to lay default-colored Dirt, Wood, Stone and Bricks (and other blocks, but he doesn't have any yet), and this option is marked by "D" letter at the left-top bottom of a button. So, no matter what the planet is, the Dirt layed by this option will always be that bland ochre, or whatever is default, I obviously don't care about it right now.​

2. Also our character can lay planet-default Dirt, Wood and Stone, which is marked as "P" letter. Notice that there is no "P" on Bricks, I'll cover that later. So, if we are on reddish planet, any Dirt layed with this option will be reddish.​

3. You can also note that there are some green and pink Dirts. That's because our character has been on some worlds with reen and pink Dirts, and gathered a bit of it. So he can decide to lay green or pink or whatever Dirt he "unlocked" on any planet he visits.​

​

Of course, this row can be expanded horizontally, and even sorted with "like/unlike" toggling buttons. For example, I really don't see myself caring for pink Dirt, so I will probably turn these off. This interface for sorting isn't been shown here, but anyone actually can invent one, it's pretty trivial.

I've pondered about some additional troubles and limits, such as storage of exact number of each type of Dirt, but then I decided that it will be, again, redundant. If you unlocked a color, it is yours for good — if we are talking about natural blocks. On artificial ones, read on.

4. Our character can lay default ("D") Bricks of reddish-orange color, and he has 39 bricks. On the other hand, he can use gray, blue and bright orange Bricks, but there are some bars involved. These bars means availability of the relevant ink, required to dye default Bricks into something else. And maybe there could be another small number right on top of this bar, precisely stating how many of the Bricks of this exact color you can lay right now.​

Now on top area of this mockup. That is "favorites" pallete. You can drag exactly your favorite types of various blocks there for keeping, and from that pallete you can drag and copy it to your hotbar. So if you are really love that green dirt, you can always use it without hassle.


There you go then: all creative freedom of large available pallete without overloaded inventory.

 

Only option 1 makes logical sense. No block should change to a default state just because we picked it up and automatically change again just because we put it back down. Our character's inventory should reflect our style of play. If we're diligent about managing what we gather, we can keep it tidy. The game should not be designed to limit itself because there are people who have personal issues about destroying unnecessary blocks, for example. It's the player's place to manage it. If you are someone who can't manage the existence of nearly infinite variations of materials then it will be inevitable that your inventory and storage methods will be challenged. But those of us who not only desire the variety but who look forward to having to categorize and organize and maintain, only option 1 is acceptable.

For those who insist that every planet should truly feel unique, then it should really not be "dirt" that goes into our inventory when we dig it, but "Alpha Centauri V Dirt". Thus it isn't just dirt. It's dirt from Alpha Centauri V. It's a unique item. Our hunt for unique things to find should encompass all aspects of the game. Gathered materials included. Transmogrifying materials eliminates this, is illogical and goes a long way towards eliminating much that makes each world unique. Therefore for those of us who insist on the worlds we explore remaining unique worlds with unique things to find on them including the materials they consist of, only option 1 is acceptable.

I can't help but feel that those who dislike option 1 often do so out of a sense of laziness. As it applies to inventories, they don't want to have to work to keep them organized. Or sometimes it comes down to their personal mental hang ups when I read their statements about how it would bother them to see mismatched dirt on screen due to some ocd they might have. Option 3 alleviates this for them as any material they place will automatically match their current planet. But at the expense of destroying the individuality of each planet's material resources I think it's unfair to want the game to adjust to their hang ups rather than them adjusting to the game. So for those who embrace the work necessary to manage a virtual universe worth of gathered material, only option 1 is acceptable.

It's been pointed out before that Starbound has numerous aspects in which great lengths have been taken to ensure as much variety as possible exists within it. Why would we opt to eliminate such an integral component as building materials from this mindset?

Here's to embracing the wonders and complexities of a virtual universe full of unique discoveries from every bag of dirt and pile of stone, to each plant and tree and vine-filled cave. To each unique dungeon, village and inhabitant. Each creature that walks the surface or swims in the deep.

Only option 1 is acceptable.

 

Option 3 for simplicity. Perhaps paint the blocks if you want a diff color.

Nice Ad hominem- It's not laziness to not want to manage 50 colors of dirt blocks.

 

Which is essentially laziness

 

There is such a thing as over complicating things and in my opinion this is just such a case.
P.S. Your argument is weak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

It's better than over simplifying things, which option 3 would do. We aren't talking about a permanent color system, this is just for beta release. Option 1 is the only viable option to hold up until a better system is put in place.

 

Seems to be the way of things lately. Don't let it stop you from trying, though. Between the nastiness there's still some good ideas getting churned out.

 

I expected you to continue by saying, "Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward you will service us."

I'll admit that Option #1 has logical sense, but so does Option #3.

Here, logic:
If the game is supposed be be convenient,
And Option #3 is the most convenient,
Then the game should use Option #3.
This is the most simple form of deductive reasoning, a form of top-down logic. There are perfectly logical arguments just like this one for both sides. You can reject premises, like denying that games are supposed the be convenient or that Option isn't the most convenient, but you can't deny that the logical structure of the argument is valid. IF the premises are true, THEN the conclusion is the logical consequence.

Of course, people don't actually make decisions based purely on logic. Brain trauma patients who had severe damage to the limbic system of their brain (in charge of emotion) had difficulty making choices even when they could logically identify the 'correct' choice, because you have to feel desire to make the correct choice through emotions. You have to be compelled by wanting to feel the way you predict the choices will make you feel, like how I predict that Option #1 will make me confused and frustrated with inventory and storage, and you believe Option #3 will break your precious immersion or limit your artistic expression. We are both motivated by different desires and fears, so logic alone will not be enough to sway us.

I think it is better to over-simplify the game until a better system is in place for two reasons:
1.) Casual gamers will prefer simpler systems, and casual gamers are how Chucklefish will get more money. This is supported by tons of evidence gathered across the software development industry. That's why Apple and Google constantly lust after simplified interfaces, even at the cost of cutting functional features, because most end users don't take advantage of all system features. Take GIMP for example, it has tons and tons of features, but the vast majority of users only use it to convert file types or use the basic pencil and brush tools-- the creators of GIMP only make it like that because it is open sourced and not for profit, and they wanted to create an alternative to Photoshop.
2.) Cluttered inventories will make -somebody- rage and give up on the game before a new system is implemented, but -nobody- will rage and give up on the game because they will STILL have more color and texture options than ANY previous sandbox game ever. Even without having millions of block colors, there are still far more color options in Starbound due to the wide variety of brick and natural block textures that further augment the range of the paint tool.

Simple version: Over-complicating hurts everyone and wastes developer time.
Over-simplifying only hurts hardcore gamers a little and benefits casuals.

We noticed, but there have been like dozens of potential Option #4 solutions, and they are all good. Since everyone already has admitted that they'd prefer to have some kind of Option #4, we can't argue about it. And even if these arguments aren't useful in the long run, they're mildly entertaining in the short-run.

 

Casuals are doo-doo heads though, who cares about them.
Also why would you play a game that's emphasis is "Unlimited and nearly infinite content due to procedural generation" if you wanted to limit the amount of blocks for no truly good reason other than "Me casual no want drop dirt out inventory, too hard do, must keep, too much clutter, omg report". Also, if they were casuals, I'm sure they wouldn't be voyaging to nearly 100 planets a day and mining a couple blocks of a dirt from each going "Holy hell devs why so much inventory clutter, can't I just mine a couple blocks of dirt from each planet and have them stack omg." It's not even that complicated in the first place. "Different dirts are actually different dirts? Alright makes sense to me. - Casual"

It doesn't make sense that all these materials would just change color to suit the planet, it's weird. I mean going with option 3 almost reduces the reason to go to other planets in the first place. Sure, I guess there might be new monsters and a dungeon or a village or something, but I'm sure a lot of people would explore planets in search for that "beautifully colored wood" they they want their floor to be made of.

I've never heard of someone raging over a cluttered inventory. Ever, never ever. Maybe the occasional "Damn, I have no inventory space." which is followed by "Better go to the shop/ go store my stuff"
Which NO. You won't have to do every couple minutes UNLESS you're going to 5 new planets every couple of seconds, at which point comon? Don't you deserve a cluttered inventory? I honestly don't understand the option 3 argument. The variety is what this game is about (as far as I can tell at least), so why destroy it? That's like the developers of call of duty saying "Our gamers rage when they die, so we should remove death from the game." and then screw over the whole point, which is to kill others.

I honestly don't know how to express why option 3 is so derp. I mean yes, based on how colors are given to blocks, you WILL find 2 red blocks that look the same but are technically different, which may be annoying but it'd only be a temporary problem, and I doubt a common one. It could easily be solved by going "Oh, it's actually a different color -trash-".

And yes, we've all seen the option 4 arguments, we all know the 4th option is the perfect option. Many have been said, many are great, many would fix everything. (I dislike the one you're referring to Seria, I don't like the idea of dirts changing colors to suit the planet at all, but still). But option 4 won't happen until later. For now we're stuck debating the benefits of option 1 and the disadvantages of option 3, because option 3 is the WRONG option and everyone who votes for it is WRONG because I'm always right and whatever I say is fact. (ahahah)

 

All these assumptions about what "casuals" want and don't want are stupid, you're basically playing right into the random hate and stereotypes that float around the internet on a constant basis.

Casual gamers are just as varied in what they want out of a game as anyone else, the only common theme is they don't have as much time (or will) to play games as much as "hardcore" gamers do. So, they want a game they can just pick up and play for an hour or so and get some fun out of it without having to invest a bunch of time into it. Starbound is going to fit that no matter what, because it's a sandbox.

 

Option 3 = go to planet 1, pick up can of Coke. Look at inventory, have black and white generic "cola". Go to planet 2, put cola down and now it's Pepsi.

Is Pepsi still good? Sure. I like Pepsi. But I originally picked up a Coke so, dammit, I should be setting down a Coke.

That was why I called it illogical with option 3. I just don't like it. But I also realize that it's not that those who disagree with me don't understand the problem I have with it, they just don't care for whatever reason they might have. I see that isn't going to change so I'm just going to leave it up to the developers to decide what they want for their game. I hope they stick with their concept of uniqueness and variety.

And, as one of the most vocal on these forums and a staunch supporter of option 3, DeadlyLuvdisc, I just want to say that I appreciate your obvious intelligence and respect your point of view on this matter. I understand your perspective and find you make good points, but I just cannot agree with option 3. It's not my vision of the game. But I'll just wait and see what Chucklefish's vision ends up being and go from there.

I'm not going to hate Starbound if option 3 ends up being the mechanic they employ. it will still be epic. Sure some of my dreams will be altered drastically, but I will just find other aspects to pursue. Plus I think we all know that whichever option is used, there will inevitably be a mod that makes it the other. Or the mythical option 4 might see the light of day. But still I hope for a game option allowing players to simply choose their preferred method.

Oh ya. I almost forgot: resistance is futile! Only option 1 is acceptable!

 

Hey everyone, remember option 2? HA.

 

Holy shit, there are so many incredibly long posts about dirt and colors that I have all but completely checked out of the intellectual and rational conversations we once had here. I have skipped past probably over 20 walls of text. Is there a TL;DR for this insanity?

 

tl;dr some people want stacks of dirt/wood/whatever in all the colors of the rainbow, and some people don't.