Coloured Blocks

I honestly doubt I'll be building with 'raw' blocks often enough for this to matter. I said earlier I'd prefer #1, but now... meh.

 

You know what, you're right. Clearly there can never be too many items.

Maybe each individual dirt block should be unique, just like IRL. Each one meter square of dirt on Earth has slightly different moisture levels depending on the location and weather in the area. Don't forget nitrogen levels and biological content. The soil needs to have more variety! Each block should have it's own slot! It's not enough to have thousands of items and hundreds of blocks to collect, I need to multiply them by the total number of colors possible using an HSL color system! (that's 16'581'375 different colors!)

 

Not sure how this suppose to help the conversation, from the looks of it Starbound will have very large amount of blocks even if they do combine the colors, so you either will be very surprised and disappointed when you will find out, or you just blowing things out of proportions for the sake of been smart ass because you can't come up with any reasonable argument as to why dirt colors should magically change just because you are on a different planet.

Either way, I made my case, hope devs gonna consider it.

Good day to you sir.

 

Option 1, definately. Sorry but, I don't really enjoy the idea of having it all in a single block, I want to be able to drop orange dirt, on a pink planet without the use and need of a paint tool. That adds another layer of complication to the builder's life sorry. I can see both sides of the discussion for sure, my vote is definately option 1, with the ability to combine stacks at player's choice. (Toggle-option maybe, if that's not to complicated.)

 

That first part isn't even relevant to what I was trying to get at. My point was why should people be FORCED into using the paint tool if they've already harvested a material that is supposed to be that color in the first place. If I harvest red dirt, I want that dirt to be red when I place it back down; not turn blue simply because I'm on a different planet.

Also, to answer your edited question, just use dirt from that planet?

Second, I never said you HAD to deposit EVERYTHING when you put stuff away. I just don't see why people are saying they'd have like 15 stacks of various dirt with them at all times taking up massive inventory space. It's a bit absurd.

 

LOL. Now maybe you're the one getting a little out of control?

 

Fortunately, regardless of what is implemented, it is likely a Mod will come out for the option that doesn't go in. I'm still hoping for a simple method in Game Options allowing us to just choose how we want it to work per our particular tastes. Devs? Could this be done? And if no, why not (since the mechanics to do them already exist in the game)?

 

Wow. Seems like some people starting to get really argumentative about this.
Since "the engine is ALREADY capable of all of these things, so there's no development time involved. It's purely picking which to go with." Why not just add all of them in an options menu and let each player choose what they want?
People who wanna landscape with different-coloured dirt outside the narrow color range of the paint tool can do that and people who don't like 20 stacks of different dirt in their inventory don't need to have that.

 

This would be nice, but in my opinion mixing option 1 with option 3 and making it work out for everyone would be the best solution. No need to change game settings that way. All you'd have to do is choose if you want to place the block as default (matching the planet block color), or if you want to place the block as another color that you have picked up. And of course you could stack all the dirt into one inventory slot which holds 1000 dirt? - I don't see why it has to be one way or the other, why not have both options put together so everyone can be happy.

 

Tough one. I like the second option, just for the sake of inventory sanity. The first option I suppose will keep us from wasting too much time repainting blocks.

I suppose I would be happy with the first two options.

 

he's got like 3 people borderline insulting him and telling him that Starbound isn't the game for him because of his opinion

and now you're poking fun at him too

It's pretty understandable that he isn't going to be the nicest person back

 

So if I understand correctly you mean that the game would track the color if each separate dirt in a stack of up to 1000 and let the entire stack be placed as any color of which there is a minimum of one block present, the color being chosen via some type of sub-menu?

 

I'm saying that yes, a lot of variety is good, but more is not always better. It IS possible to have too much variety. Having 16'581'375 different possible dirt blocks each having it's own slot is too much variety. By the way, if you're wondering where I got that number, it's the number of possible HSL colors that the game is likely using.

Eh, I just made a sarcastic post with a few exclamation points in it. So sue me.

This was also in response to someone who specifically said that anyone supporting option #3 was "fking stupid".

What color the dirt is "supposed" to be is subjective. I think it is supposed to match the planet.

Why should people be FORCED into using the paint tool if they want to use dirt from another planet and have it match the new planet? Either way people will get forced into using the paint tool in one case or the other. My point was that you either get forced to use paint while exploring (option #3) or you use paint while building (option #1).

But then I have to start each new planet by harvesting dirt, when I already have tons of dirt already.

As we've already discussed in my original thread, this is a totally different perspective that I can't really argue with. If players actively want to work harder to get the same thing, then simplifying the system is naturally the opposite of what they want. That said, most gamers want to have the game simplified (especially casual gamers). I think most people voting for Option #1 are doing so for other reasons, particularly that they think it will be better for customizing colors compared to the paint tool.

 

I can see what you mean by this I think. But if that's the case, if people are just exploring, are they really that concerned with the color of the dirt bridge they just made over the lava pit with death in it? If you aren't using it as a temporary structure (That's how I see it being used in exploration) then you're building something permanent with it. I don't think it's going to matter what color dirt you use for exploration (Which lends itself well to the single stack size, since it's all in a nice neat little pile.) However people building may not want to pull out their paint tool to change the color, again playstyle can't be brought up because it's not implemented yet.

Or...you could just place down odd-colored dirt? Maybe I'm missing half the conversation, I don't see why this is an issue.

I'd say that's two sides to gamers in all honesty, yes, you and I have had this discussion before (I was quite pleased it was rather long and we are both generally level-headed and had a nice discussion) I was more re-stating my opinion here, in Tiy's thread then replying directly to you. You say you're actively working harder to get the same thing, but we don't know that yet, as we aren't sure as to the limits and range of the paint tool. If it brings up a color pallette ala custom colors in paint then I'd have less issue then if it only has X numbers of colors to choose from. (8 for example, though I doubt it's that limited.) If it's all in the code anyway, I'd seriously opt for an option server side or client side. (Server side so the server sets it etc) This way both audiences can be satisfied, I don't see why it has to be one or the other, and force the use of a mod, or for players to have a feature they don't enjoy unless coding in an option is truely that much more work.

 

I mean, you would have different colors of dirt, but every dirt would be able to stack up together, so you could have like x10 Red Dirt, x42 Green Dirt, x74 White Dirt, and they could all be in the same stack in the inventory, taking up only one inventory space together. Then when you click on that stack, it would give you another menu, like a sub-menu like you said, and from that menu it doesn't have to say the color name of the block, it just has to have the block pictures in that menu. So you could have like all the different colors of dirt in that stack menu, and you just have to click on a color you want and tada~ you can place that color on any planet you want. Or you tick the "merge color" option in that menu if you want the dirt to merge to the color specified on the very same planet you are currently on, of course, in the spaceship this would be nullified automatically.

 

it'll look ugly

you have to understand this isn't JUST for dirt. This will be fore wood that is different color and stone that is different color. It's going to be a huge amount of items that we're going to have to hold. Where as if you do option three? All you do is place the blocks down and paint them when you're done if you want to change their color. That's even if you want to change the color. Maybe you want it to match the planet.

If you pick option one, you're forced to have ugly colored blocks clashing on a new planet. You'll have to mine for more resources just to make a small little home to look right if you want.

Option 3 is the better choice, even if you're building huge grand things. It allows you to keep multiple huge stacks of dirt, stone, wood what ever you want and place them down. When you want to change the color, you simply paint it up real quick. It's easier to put down a building and then paint it rather than do the whole thing at once one color at a time

 

Easier? Maybe... unless I'm on a planet that has red wood, and I want a giant green wooden home, I place down 2000 blocks of wood, then have to go through and paint them all because...well damn, I like the terrain and generation of this planet but not the wood, to bad I farmed wood in that other planet cause I liked it's color more, since it's all useless now and has to be painted. (Admittedly this is somewhat negated if the game releases this way, it'll be farming certain items without care for looks, because you will be forced (More or less) to change it if you want to preserve that look on each planet.)

What happens if you're on a multiplayer server, and you want to leave a calling card so to speak? Every planet you visit you leave say, a little red shack built out of this type of dirt, you'd have to paint it each and every time.

Again I get both sides of the arguement, you want it to be easy and just slather paint on it if you want a different look, I'm not a fan of that option and the other 12 people whom I've bought copies for feel the same way, it's kind of why we get along so well in games etc. I have a friend who collects one of everything in any game he can. ( Terraria, Minecraft, any RPG that allows that sort of inventory space etc) He'd love collecting dirt from hundreds of planets instead of just getting one stack of dirt and calling it good, it's less fun for him if it all merges into a uni-color that shapechanges into the dirt on the planet.

 

This would make my OCD explode. I'd actually take the effort to toss my old dirt and harvest new stuff. In fact, my desire to leave the minimum possible footprint on the world would lead me to carefully taking little bits here and there instead of getting it all in one spot. Crazy? I'll admit it.

There is still the inventory issue, but a lot of people don't seem bothered by it. I mentioned that there are 16'581'375 different possible HSL colors, and if you multiply that by even 100 blocks, you have well over one billion possible blocks in your inventory. That would definitely require a detailed search option just for your ship's storage, and that means yet more code for the developers. Of course, for your purposes this isn't really a disadvantage because you enjoy having less convenience, and I can't really refute preferences like that.

I think the biggest issue is that Tiy and GeorgeV designed this thread around "these are your options, pick one" instead of asking for us to problem solve. GeorgeV even said there is no "Option #4", and that sounds a lot like saying there is no room for compromise on this and they are not going to add any new code to help solve this.

We also don't know the exact range of colors possible with the random dirt colors on planets, or the range of possible colors that can be achieved with combinations of both different types of blocks and the pain tool. If say Gravel is slightly darker and grayer than dirt, that allows for more possible colors with the paint.

The question is whether having both in the game would create problems.

Just because they have code for both doesn't mean that both are compatible.

As I've said before, it would be really nice for a developer to weigh-in on this.

It takes very little time to paint blocks. From what I've seen in the streams, you could practically scribble around really fast and fill it in. Of course, I don't have much experience actually doing this, since the game isn't out. Maybe it will be easier to decide after playing with Terraria 1.2's paint tool.

 

See, this is where it gets tricky, because mining yellow dirt, and it being labeled dirt in my inventory, going to another planet and dropping it, and it magicially becoming blue? That'd drive me absolutely bonkers, sadly I think one of us is going to be severely disappointed if they are leaving no room for discussion and it's concrete one of these three options.

In a game where there is a number of planets higher then you can visit in a single life-time, and more weapons, armors and monsters then you can possibly obtain all of them of? No I don't think many people care about inventory at all to be honest, anyone who thinks this game won't be a testiment to inventory managment skills, I feel is sorely mistaken and is in for a suprise.

This actually makes me sad, and a little annoyed. I understand they want it to be easy to code, but we've waited this long for the beta, it almost feels like this statment is cutting corners and rushing it because they don't want the extra work, of course I may be the minority in wanting it to be player option, somehow I doubt that.

Exactly, this statment makes me worry even more, because there may be some colors you cannot replicate with the paint tool depending on how it works. Have you ever played Guild Wars 1? The different in the old dye system, and the new one made it so some colors were unobtainable that were previously. The new system if you mix purple and green, you get a strange light-ish blue color that is rather nasty looking (In my opinion) the old system, when you mixed green into purple, you got the same color however if you mixed purple into green you got a very very dark blue that had a sheen to it. The difference? You can no longer get the second color because of the new system, it made it so I never changed my Drok's armor on my warrior despite enjoying the overall appearence of other armor, because I couldn't achieve the same color, color is extremely important to me, if something doesn't appeal to me, I won't use it, unless it's a nessecity.

You would never have both in the game? If it's client-side you are playing solo, if it's server side the server has priority over everything. This may suck for people who don't want it one way on a particular server, however if the server owner wants it that way, or the majority of the players do, so be it. That odd-man out has to suck it up and play to the server, or find a new server. That's regardless of which option it is.

 

That's exactly my point. I can't really argue with you on this issue.

Needless to say, I'd rather you be disappointed than me, and I'm sure you feel the same.

As we decided previously, it would obviously be best if they found a compromise.

Well, logbook entries on monsters aren't an inventory issue, and I'm not sure how capturing will work (you might not be able to collect tons of captured monsters). I also doubt that most players will think twice before selling equipment they don't plan on using. To be totally honest with you, I have no idea what to expect when it comes to inventory management in this game, but I hope they keep it as simple as they can.

As a general rule, things shouldn't be more complicated than they absolutely need to be. I'd say that as long as you can make an attractive product and you have a lot of options (basically avoiding the problem with your armor in Guild Wars) then it doesn't need to be more complicated, but that's a very fuzzy line to draw. It's hard to say exactly when it isn't necessary or helpful anymore.

I'm okay with them cutting corners as long as the game is half as fun as I'm expecting. It's impossible for them to make the perfect game, since that's an idea that doesn't exist. The very best they can do is make their dream game, and we all have to remember that their dream is not always the same as ours.

Having the dirt from one system in your inventory might cause issues if you switch servers or changes your options. Who knows? There are all sorts of crazy problems you could never predict when it comes to this sort of thing. That's why I'd love to have Omni or Bartwe weigh in here, I want to hear some code-end specifics.