Better ship fueling mechanics

Discussion in 'Mechanics' started by Seven Dollers, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    I don't see how limiting somebodies exploration range limits their play style in a negative way. Players would be free to explore a large region, but with a built in reward mechanic instead of a grind process. Mining for armor rewards you with armor that you have as long as you keep it, mining for fuel rewards you will something that is consumed when you travel. Once again, the bow using energy instead of consumable arrows is a good mechanic and feels natural, and this is is very similar, and once again, suspension of disbelief is rarely a factor in anything but ultra realistic games. If you can explain it in some way players will often enjoy it.

    You have failed to address the initial problem of designing a system where players are able to set up a home base.

    *Sigh*
    There seems to always be people who cling onto things because it is familiar... Unwilling to consider a better approach. This idea that things shouldn't be changed because "It's already part of the picture our brains paint of the game's universe. A change of fuel types wouldn't impact your suspension of disbelief." is frankly ridicules for a beta.
     
  2. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    That last comment offensive and uncalled for. Either way, new fuel types are LOGICAL. An arbitrary limit on jump range is completely illogical.
     
  3. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    It seems logical to you because you arbitrarily decided you liked the idea. Looking at it through the lens of design, you haven't given any reason why this decision is ideal. The only justification you have attempted to give is that it builds on a current system, except that this current system is flawed, and that it doesn't ' break suspension of disbelief', a meaningless assertion in a game where you summon mechs with magical technology.
     
  4. AbhChallenger

    AbhChallenger Astral Cartographer

    As I said in the other topic. The current fuel cost system is absurd. And completely discourages exploration. For now the best solution is vastly reducing the cost of travel within the same solar system and nearby systems. Later on I think there should be a way for your home base to automatically generate fuel.
     
  5. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    Well yes, that is true.
    Essentially we have two problems:
    Number 1 is that fuel is a silly idea all together that only discourages people from establishing a home because it costs too much to keep traveling back there, and makes exploration more tedious. Solution is to either make fuel costs significantly lower, or better yet just remove the concept. It is unfun busy work. Were this an MMO where the devs wanted to make people addicted through this sort of tedium I would understand, but the point of the game should be something enjoyable.
    Number 2 is that exploration is totally redundant compared to just getting the coordinates to good planets. Solution is to either give every player a unique universe, or only allow the player to access a section on the universe at a time. Considering that as quests become a more important aspect, keeping the player in a region that is big enough to fill their needs but small enough to make them want to explore outside it serves as both guiding and rewarding mechanisms.
     
  6. Cire44Wolf

    Cire44Wolf Intergalactic Tourist

    Oh alright, sorry about that.
     
  7. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    As in, it's illogical from an in-universe perspective. And this current system is not FLAWED. NOT HAVING FUEL is a silly idea. Maybe you could have it in the form of energy or something, but free travel is far worse than grinding needed for travel. This way you at least need to think about where to jump.
     
  8. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    Not really. I have already come up with a possible wrapper for the mechanic with gates and batteries. It makes about as much sense as your ship being able yo teleport you across the universe to another persons ship, but not to the surface of any planet but the one you are directly over.
    The gate and batteries provide power to your ship, thus you must stay within range, there, logic done!

    And no, you don't need to think about where to jump to, you open a spread sheet online that tells you where the good stuff is.
     
  9. Gonzo18

    Gonzo18 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    whats wrong with you guys xD you just need some plutonium you can find it on the most asteroids ??
     
  10. Roxacemn

    Roxacemn Void-Bound Voyager

    I think the problems that arise from the proposed change in mechanics is that the freedom of travel anywhere is supposedly tied into the community-based aspect of the game. You can share co-ordinates with friends and set foot on soil that your friends have in the past. If anything the current system is just a seed generator dressed up and geared towards the community. I like the idea but I still think we shouldnt ditch the fuel system entirely.

    As it is, its more of a gambling mechanic - you spend resources at the chance of coming across a planet that has a pixel-rich dungeon or tech chest or good merchant (if you didnt get the co-ordinates from someone who already knows). Sometimes you just spend resources to go to a planet that has nothing noteworthy on it whatsoever and have to spend time making back what you lost.

    Perhaps try something like a passive refuel that fills the tank up over time, using resources just speeds up the process, but if you spend so long on a planet it will fill up by itself and you can travel elsewhere at no cost of resources. This will prompt people to stay on planets and explore rather than mindlessly chop down trees to get going again. Also, perhaps discounts to where you have already been to promote exploring clusters rather than at random.
     
  11. Badprenup

    Badprenup Ketchup Robot

    I say keep fuel, but reduce the use for it by making so it is only used to travel to other planets within a solar system. To move to another Solar System, make so you need to craft some kind of Warp Gate that allows you to escape from the planet you build it on to any adjacent system. Once you make a Warp Gate in the next system, you can travel to any Warp Gate that is connected to the one you are currently at for no fuel cost. Systems with Warp Gates will be a special symbol on the System map, and once you select a System that you can travel to you can choose any Planet that has a Warp Gate to launch to and orbit. But if you then want to travel to a neighboring planet without a Warp Gate, you need fuel to travel from the planet you are on to the one without a Warp Gate. This is very similar to the idea in the OP, but still retains fuel.

    For a better explanation, say there are 2 adjacent Systems. System X and System Y. System X has Planets A, B, and C. System Y has Planets M, N, and O. Now lets say there is a Warp Gate on Planet C (System X) and Planet N (System Y). You are on Planet A (System X). To get to Planet N, you must use Fuel to travel to Planet C because it is the only planet in your system with a Warp Gate. Lets say that costs 200 Fuel. Once you are on Planet C, you can use the Warp Gate to travel to Planet N of System Y for no Fuel cost. If you wanted to, you could travel between those two planets of those two systems endlessly, for free. But any planets without a Warp Gate you must first get to the System, then use Fuel to get to the proper planet.

    For some added randomness, some Systems could have a Planet that already has a Warp Gate. Who knows what you will find there? I think that would actually open up an entirely new avenue of gameplay. If someone wanted to colonize an entire area they could build a Warp Gate on every planet of multiple systems, and then never need to worry about Fuel again. Maybe as a late game item you can build a Warp Drive that allows you to travel anywhere for free.
     
  12. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    The freedom of travel mechanic isn't really fundamental to the community aspect. You can form a party with anyone on the server and warp to their ship. (Which, while affecting suspension of disbelief, is one of the few concessions to game design that can't really be worked around.)

    No. Just no. Replacing a fundamental system is going a bit too far.
     
  13. GoldenstarArtist

    GoldenstarArtist Cosmic Narwhal

    Answer to all: Craftable Fule & Planet spawn relocater (possibly a item of somekind you can place...)
     
  14. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    I took the liberty of correcting the spelling of fuel. As far as I can tell this is entirely off topic. Of course fuel would be craftable. And what does a planet spawn relocator have to do with ANYTHING?
     
  15. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    Still fails to address the problem that people are using dictionaries of useful planets as an "I win" button.
     
  16. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    You do realize that the items in a chest are NOT consistent across worlds? And I can find a planet with some form of dungeon within half an hour of exploring.
     
  17. Seven Dollers

    Seven Dollers Poptop Tamer

    High level weapon merchants are, and chests are still weighted to have better loot. If a chest contains tech once, chances are it will again.
    Between good tech and good weapons what else do you need?
     
  18. Dimitriye98

    Dimitriye98 Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Finding good tech is as easy as finding any dungeon, as to weapons merchants, I really don't see a problem with this. To me, the fundamental problem with the current system is that it discourages base-building.
     
  19. GoldenstarArtist

    GoldenstarArtist Cosmic Narwhal

    I personally just smack that random button until it feels just right... then I setup camp :D no need for seeds/cords
     
  20. octopussoup

    octopussoup Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Maybe the changed it but I can find coal quite easily. There are large amounts on the surface of most planets and even more just below. Gold is the only thing I cant find often on any pre Boss 1 planets.
     

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