Beta Saves Continue into Retail?

I'm saying, not basing on anything, that the saves will continue. In my opinion, there is no reason to force you to make a new save post-beta, unless there is a major change in saving system, which (hopefully) won't have any.

 

Just discussed about how BETA is only Sandbox and does not Include STORY Mode, Quests and Missions.


What simply means your BETA characters will be sandbox only, and Final game characters will include the Story. Just that makes them incompatible.

 

Yes, but for the sandbox characters, much probably will be able to continue, unless the saving system changes... And I'm just saying the same thing again

 

Wonder what it will be like...

 

I'm soo excited for this! SandBox with an Story Mode, never done in Minecraft, Terraria or other games like this... Just AWESOME.

 

I don't think it'll effect your character saves. Unless they add in core character mechanics then it might cause issues. Otherwise, world, creatures and weapon parts can be just throw into the random generator and it'd be all fine and dandy. But there's nothing concrete saying any of that so we'll have to see.

 

Everytime I come here and read some topics, I start to speculate and wonder how the game is going to be. It is so much information in my head, I can't handle it! But it is awesome, though.

 

I think it depends more on how they store their character save data. Which has not been discussed.

Adding whole new types of data to a save file does not automatically make old versions incompatible.
For instance if they chose to save characters in json for some reason, then they could easily just add new elements or ignore / convert old ones with every version.
So old saves would just be lumped with the "defaults" for new elements, for a quest system for instance the sensible default would either be, no quests started or completed etc / default starting quest.

A solid save system should be almost bulletproof going forward (maybe with a few "converting" functions in the games loading system). However backwards compatibility is almost never certain.

If they decide on a save format before the beta, one that is extensible. Then there should in theory be no issue using it in later versions of the game. Unless they change core elements and don't feel like providing compatibility.

in most cases like this the user base of a game will data mine the **** out of the save system and figure out what is what then create save editors etc.

I seriously hope that the team consider using human readable save files if possible.

If they intend to allow client side saves and let servers choose whether to allow them or run with server side characters, then i see no reason why save files should not be human readable.

It will give users more freedom in the game while providing no real cheating opportunities as the server can just say "NO, YOUR USING THE SAVE I HAVE, NOT YOURS". and if they are cheating in their own game or a server they run or one that allows any save then there really should be no issue with suers editing their save.

It will just prevent the millions of "cheat mods / inventory editors" being made and boil it down to a short tutorial on how to read your save file. Stop 10 year olds downloading random programs that promise to be a "starbound character cheater"

So long as saves can be overridden by the server I'm always an advocate for 100% human readable save and config files wherever possible. It just stops people breaking things irreparably.

on another note anyone that uses config files that aren't human readable should be quietly taken out back and "disposed of".

had that issue with some stupid game where I couldn't change the default resolution without being ingame, which I couldn't be because the default resolution didn't fit on my screen at the time, and the config file was just dumped serialized data.

--------------
TLDR:
good save systems are future proof
great save systems are human readable (when the server security can say no)
and config files that aren't human readable make good programmers cry.

 

About your wall of Text. We must wait and see. Since there is only Sandbox in BETA as announced. It will make more than sense CREATE A NEW character when the game launches for experience the game with the Story Mode ON.

 

Yeh sorry I got carried away.

Yes it would be a good argument for it.
However in a sandbox mode I don't see you needing a proper inventory or so, nor any leveld player stats.
So having those as separate things in a save file would still leave a good system perfectly fine with save compatibility.
If that were not the case then the game would need to forever have separate character types where you have to make separate characters for sandbox or story mode, something I hope they avoid.

 

Towards the end of beta it would probably be able to be carried over, but I'd be surprised if there was no feature added or bug fixed that broke save game compatibility at least once.

 

True, but you would hope that a community oriented team would provide "support" for this, thus creating compatibility layers that will convert old saves. Even if it is only from one version to the next and not older ones. however bugs aside. As I said before a good save system should be extensible to the point where adding new features never invalidates old saves.

 

That's very simple in a Way, characters you make in beta survive to updates, sure! Worlds/planets save files, NO. Even Tiy said in AMA that is possible that some world save files break in a update, but they are trying to make it friendly for Launch. They should not Worry about make there update compatibility in a BETA, a beta is a TEST is not for a complete gameplay and gameplay experience.

You character info is more about: Inventory, Tech, SpaceShip, Appearance, and not really much more.

 

This were already Discussed! For launch, when the game get's an Update, they are trying to make it friendly:
- If there is planet new content is: Now there are 2 dungeons per planet and now only 1! The engine wont be able the generate again a generated planet (you generate the planet the first time Find it in the Universe Navigator). The way the Starbound is made is simple: The next planet you generate will include the 2 Dungeons.

And be aware: Most of Updates will not Break anything in your planet, or make it Outdated, most things are changed in the engine, or the game Core!

 

I am so sorry.
I have moronically completely forgotten about world saves. (which I wholey wouldn't recommend human readability even if its jsut for the sake of save and load speeds etc)

However even here backwards compatibility should not be much of an issue preferably.
Look at minecraft.
Old worlds can be regularly loaded into new versions.
It breaks nothing, but does lead to odd things such as newly generated terrain not matching the old one and none of the new items etc being available fore mining and so forth.

I'm not saying that they have to or should but that you might hope for it.

But I would disagree with that line. what with their apparent aim at making the final product modable and hopefully providing support for save compatibility in the release version, testing compatibility between version and the flexibility of their save format is exactly something they should test at some point in a beta. Most likely such tests would result in saves between beta versions being "dodgey" but towards the end of beta they should have between version compatibility nailed, along with an extensible save format. otherwise later additions of mod support will make saves nightmarish if it is no an extensible format.

Admittedly however it is probably not something that should be such a huge priority to begin with. However it would certainly be easier to develop a robust save format beforehand rather than changing it later. something I'm certain the team will have considered and/or licked long ago.

 

What? Minecraft does not break things on updates? Ahhh you aren't aware how many times big and older servers of Minecraft needed Restart from 0 in their maps because gamebreaking incompatibilities. Mainly server with MODs need to reset over even today that still happens.

In the making beta versions compatible it's something there that makes little sense. In Betas games usually do some big, others smaller changes to their content and systems, Plenty of Games I played in BETA's forced us to restart over when a new version comes In because that version is a version where CORE Game and it's Engine is changed, and that is far beyond of any Update Compatibility between beta versions. For example they simply need to remove an Texture or Item from the next Game BETA Versions, or BETA/Launch Versions, to break any World File that contains such Texture/Item.

AFTER Launch, then yes, they will surely be very careful with what changes they do and how they will affect the player / world saves. Only after they have an stable version of the game they can work in things like Update Compatibility and Optimization. ^^

 

Actually vanila minecraft maps rarely break between versions.
Just a week ago I loaded an almost year and a half old map into minecraft so that I could copy something out of it.
Items in the maps change behaviour but the save format itself stays fine.
Mods breaking things in minecraft is different because mine craft currently still has NO INTENDED mod capability. Which is something that starbound seems to want to address quickly so it would be easier to have a strong save system. Even then its more actually the mods fault for not dealing with the changes. There is allot of blame thrown at minecraft by modders, saying that minecraft broke their stuff. Its usually more "minecraft changed and I don't want to have to do the work to change my stuff"

That would be terrible programming. Saves would never contain textures.
And if a save referenced an item that no longer exists then you either simply remove it or leave a placeholder, to keep compatibility.

If it is a mechanisms behaviour changes then it may break something that works inside the game and you have to remake it. such as in minecraft people have to update their redstone contraptions between versions. But they still load.

 

Saves don't contain textures, they contain info to load the textures, when the world file requests the texture and the client doesn't know what you talking about ... Madness!

At an End, for me I don't want or Need that compatibility BETA/Launch. I want it, in the Final Game. BETA is an testy version of the game, it isn't the complete game, if you were loading the BETA saves into the Final Game you will not experience the Full Gameplay experience (that you wont have at the beta).

 

There's no way anyone can say that there will never be anything that requires a reset between versions. Maybe they didn't realize it needed to be converted between versions. Maybe the conversion fixed one thing and broke something else. Maybe something major changed behind the scenes and trying to convert between versions is incredibly complex and time consuming so they decided their time would be better spent elsewhere. Sometimes shit just happens.

 

I can say It wont need any Reset Between Versions AFTER Launch. Most of Starbound Updates will take action into an Save World file in the moment, since the content added is CLIENT side.

Your planet may not be updated for example if something in the Generation Engine changes. But as said in AMA; World files will be fine since the Updates will be done in a way friendly to them. The max thing can happen it's some mechanic that changed break something into your planet, but if that Happens in a Post-Launch Update, it will be an Bug!