Important BETA RELEASE DISCUSSION - DECEMBER 4TH (*ALL* beta discussion goes here. Other threads deleted)

I'm not even going to bother with a full answer. If you really think C++ can't handle such basic things as events, you don't really know C++.

BTW, in case you didn't notice, development of XNA has officially ceased some time ago. It doesn't support D3D10 or above, Windows 8, Windows Mobile 8, or XBox One, isn't available for Visual Studio 2012, and chances are good it will never have that support. I expect to see C# lose space in gaming, except as a scripting language running on Mono for Unity-based games.

You seem to mix language and libraries. C++, being a lower level language, can do anything C# can, and then some. In fact, the .net framework virtual machine is written in C and C++

The opposite is not true because C# is a high level language. Being high level means being easier to learn, easier to use, but not as powerful or well performing. And, depending on how much of the game world StarBound wants to simulate at a time, they might need better performance than what C# can provide.

BTW, while I don't work with programing for a living, I have used in the past, and do know my way around, about a dozen programming languages, including C++ and C#. I'm well aware of their characteristics, and their proper niches.

Also: Terraria could get away using C# because of it's small scope, and even then it can sometimes cause slowdowns on machines that should be able to run such a game a few times over.

 

Molyneux

 

no idea who that is

 

Peter Molyneux is kind of a big name because he was behind games like Fable and Black and White. He is also famed for saying that there are going to be a whole bunch of very interesting and groundbreaking features in a game, and most of the time failing to deliver said features. Somebody will probably come along and elaborate/correct me on this.

 

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND!

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Molyneux‎

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm pretty certain there are sources where you can get sounds. Probably same with the others, but I'm more sure about sound. Main reason being is that I've heard the same sound used in different games by completely different developers. For example, the charge sound effect for the main weapon in the Metroid Prime trilogy can also be heard as a charging sound in a game called Hard Reset. I'm pretty sure someone in Flying Wild Hog didn't send and e-mail to Retro Studios asking if they could use that sound effect.

 

So you feel that means you have a better grasp of programming than someone who does work with this kind of shit for a living and has received a formal education on it?

 

Psst... http://www.freesound.org/

It is actually is were quite a bit of minecraft's early sound effects came from if a recall.

 

If said person seems unaware that multiple libraries to handle events in C++ exist, and isn't aware of how to handle IPv6 traffic outside C#, then yes.

BTW, while I don't have a formal programming degree, I do have an engineering degree, which included formal education on half a dozen programming languages (though I don't remember much of Fortran, never having used it for anything more complex than a "hello world" program). Not to mention that some of the best programmers I personally know have no formal training, and that quite a few persons with a degree in programming I personally know I wouldn't trust to be able to code a bubble sort routine without consulting Google.

 

Many of the iconic game sounds from the 8-bits and 16-bits era can be easily replicated with little effort; they were created, after all, for game systems that had very primitive capabilities when it came to sound effects. As a result, later games that imitate those old, iconic sounds, can sound very similar to one another despite not using the exact same sound sample; I believe this is the case between Hard Reset (a FPS that intentionally went "old school") and the Metroid Prime series (which, obviously, attempted to evoke the older Metroid games).

 

Nethaufer: Good point but given everything done so far it is very likely they made some if not most of their own sound effects for their game. I would imagine it may be more likely for it to be a mix stock, remixed/reworked sounds, as well as team made sounds. A while back when they were talking about monster sounds that they had largely made their own.

Also your statement on Molyneux is correct. Though it seems with Cube and Goddus he has reigned himself in. But that is going a bit too off-topic.

Aphosis: Indulge me a bit here. Assuming the work the devs have done is honest and is progress towards the final product what do you think of the work so far? I am of mixed feelings in some areas. I like the variety the game looks to possess but the enemies are almost too cartoony. I like the growing spaceship idea but I also liked the idea of building onto your ship yourself. Thoughts? Least favourite thing most favoured thing?

 

These are all assumptions made by you. So no.

Thats great, but it basically confirms that programming is not your focus and that you are less likely to be correct in this instance than Apophis is.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. This guy has a formal education and an occupation that involves programming. Regardless of your own personal experience, I'm willing to bet he has a better grasp of programming than the average joe.

 

Sorry to clutter up this uh, riveting discussion , but man, I just wanted to say I'm super excited for this game, I've been keeping my eye on it, and decided that it was worth helping out now. This just adds another title to my list of various game's I have supported during development, and I have the highest regards for the team, and their work, and would like to drop a thank you for the team working hard to put out all this great stuff and updates! Can't wait for the beta!!

 

i actually dont think that anything here proves anything. formal education or not, the proof will never be here for either of you, but ill have to give passion for the hobby more credit then education

 

There are points where despite having zero formal education in a field can still let you make reasonable judgements about it.
Some things overlap, and in many instances we all can use common sense about certain things regardless.

That said, this isn't the first person to speak up who has had a background in such to say something is wrong. Won't be the last person to either. Despite what people want to believe there are a chunk of game developers (independent and professional) out there for who Starbound is becoming a example of what not to do in regards to some things. Those few we see speaking up here only represent a small number.

Unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

Yes, Mr. Molyneux has that nasty habit. Fable III for instance. I had such high hopes for that game. I get to be king, YAY. Oh, wait, it's over? Already? That...that was it? The whole game lead up to THIS?! Now what do I do with my limitless power? Kill peasants I suppose...

 

When someone points as a disadvantage of C++ that a busy loop must be used to pool events, I frankly assume he doesn't really know the language. I've personally used proper messaging systems in my C++ programs, you know; it's not even hard. Heck, even before Windows came around I was already dealing with DOS interrupts in C, which already allowed fairly efficient handling of events without a busy loop.

If he was right, we would be seeing C# used as the main programming language in almost every program created in the last few years. Which, at least for anything where performance is important, is clearly not the case. And can be verified with ease if you have the proper tools to inspect executable files, BTW; it's easy to tell if a program's executables or DLL libraries uses CLI, which every C# program does (or at least I assume so; I don't know of any C# compiler that compiles to native code instead of CIL, which would be required for a C# program to not use CLI).

Than the average Joe, likely. The average Joe doesn't know anything concrete about programming.

But, given the amount of clear nonsense he said about C++ and how C++ compares with C#, I'm not sure he is proficient in C++. Which wouldn't be too strange anyway; many professional programmers nowadays are not proficient in C++.

 

Actually if he was right, you'd see some level of debate on the internet over whether or not C# or C++ is better than the other, with several sources confirming either side of the argument. Which google search seems to reveal is the case. As he isn't arguing that C++ is complete garbage and that no one would use it ever, and is hence another assumption on your part as to his argument.

EDIT: Also this is getting off topic. So I'm not going to respond to your next reply.

 

Care to cite your sources on these game developers for whom Starbound is a cautionary tale? Or are you just assuming they exist? Professional developers are going to know enough to see that there's nothing out of the ordinary with the development cycle here. They're producing an ambitious game and it's taking awhile, but they're making good progress. You seem to badly want a huge group of people to be as upset with Chucklefish as you are, Xander, but it just doesn't exist.