Important BETA RELEASE DISCUSSION - DECEMBER 4TH (*ALL* beta discussion goes here. Other threads deleted)

They got a supplement that supported Dakkajets and the like, but not a true codex update.

 

I think that the complete derailing of the "complaining about the Beta release delay" thread into a WH40k discussion is a fantastic idea. This thread is the ONLY place for Beta discussion, but it doesn't say that it's a place ONLY for Beta discussion!

I haven't played 40k in about 12 years. Still have a large Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine army sitting in a closet somewhere, all badly painted by 12-to-15-year-old me. I think about returning to it from time to time, but then I a) remember how stupidly expensive the damn models are and 2) think about the pain in the assitude of stripping all the crappy paint jobs from my old models (this was actually part of the reason I stopped playing, as at 15 I was already really dissatisfied with my older paint jobs but unable to find a good way to remove old paint)

I'm really interested to see how 3D printing impacts GW's absurd prices. Resolution is still way too low on most consumer 3D printers right now, but it gets better every couple months. Within a couple years, you'll be able to buy one box of models, scan them still on the sprues, and print enough for yourself and your friends at a fraction of the cost of building even a small army right now. And for people who don't enjoy the assembly process, they can print them fully-assembled. AND people who make really awesome customized models (what's the damn word for those? There's an term GW always uses and I can't remember it) can scan those, and now everyone can get those awesome customized figures we see in the back of the codex and wish we had the time/talent to create.

I'm fascinated to see if they adapt fast enough to avoid being completely put out of business. I feel like their policy of MASSIVELY overcharging for everything has put them in a really bad position when it comes to fan goodwill, and if I had the opportunity to print my own models, I'd jump at it - they've gotten plenty of my money, thanks. If they see the writing on the wall, we might get mini prices which could actually start attracting new players, as opposed to just serving the same ever-shrinking market of old vets. I also feel like that's hugely unlikely, and that they just won't back down from their prices, even if it becomes complete suicide, in which case they'll go out of business, and people who want to play 40k can just print their own armies from the easily-available scans, and download fan-made rule patches and updates forever, for free.

I don't hate GW, but I really think that they'll need to adapt to survive, and they haven't proved very adaptable thus far.

 

Yeah… So, new weekly update tomorrow? There definitely should be "beta" word somewhere… At least I hope they will tell us what would it be, this month or the next one. Let's cross our fingers all together now? ;D

 

I'm not expecting any news, but we could be pleasantly surprised. *shrug*

Also, I just now noticed the countdown on the Starbounder wiki. How long has that been going?
http://starbounder.org/Main_Page

 

If you are thinking thats beta release countdown you would be wrong.
That is a countdown to the end of the year the time till the beta has to release.

 

Yeah, I know. Though it's still helpful to know the maximum wait time (and the exact wait time for people who think the beta will be released on december 31st )

 

We have a 30k 3D printer at work and I can tell you there is no 'scan something in' coming any time soon. These things take detailed 3D models (SolidWorks as an example) as input and output a 'decent' model that still has to be cleaned up, sanded and prepped. I don't know of any consumer setup that 'scans' objects into a 3D model in any kind of detail that would be usable.

 

http://www.nextengine.com/
http://store.makerbot.com/digitizer.html

3D scanners are coming to the consumer market very soon. They're expensive, certainly, but people are working really hard to bring resolution up and price down. Unless there's a nuclear war in the next two years, I think it's safe to say resolution is going to get a lot higher, and price a lot lower, very fast.

And honestly, the scanning part isn't really even necessary. Check this out:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:182173

The only thing keeping THAT (and its ilk - just think about all those 3D models buried in the files for Space Marine) from getting me back into 40k is the fact that the printers can't really do that kind of detail yet - certainly nothing in the average consumer price-range so far is going to give you a GW-quality model. But they're improving super duper extra fast.

And certainly, another aspect is refinement - there's still no clean throughput from scanner/model to printer. You have to massage the model carefully, and massage the damn printer a bit too much for a mass-appeal product. But that will doubtless improve, and even if it remains something that requires the operator to be a bit detail-oriented, well... that would put it nicely in the purview of tabletop gamers! Also, I think we'll see improvement in the final product quality once we start doing 3D models in parts rather than a whole - this guy is made of dozens of separate "shapes", and there's no reason not to break it up into arms, shoulderpads, gun, head, spiky bits, etc. and print those all separately, once we get higher-res printers.

As much as I really don't mind waiting, it does seem odd that they're delaying at this stage. Even if your product is a mess (as it should be!), it seems like there would be little harm in releasing it into the wild even if you already know what the first 10,000 bug reports are going to be - just dump it onto Steam (with plenty of disclaimers) and then go back to work exactly as if nothing had changed.

This makes me think that they're delaying because of infrastructure issues - setting up a solid, accessible database for bug reports, building netcode, putting together some sort of multiplayer infrastructure - I think it's a "meta" issue along those lines.

 

CF don't have to release anything. Beta 2013 is just another estimate like all the ones before it, and I think we all know by now that any estimate made by CF should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

 

I don't think they need to worry about the multiplayer infrastructure - I'm thinking it'll work like Terraria where most multiplayer is with small groups of 2 to 6 people, with the largest servers being 20 to 50, just because of the nature of the gameplay - but certainly the bug reporting system is a big deal. You can't just have a section of the forums named "Tech Support" or "Bug Reports" because that'll be filled to the brim with things that aren't bugs, duplicates of things that are, user-related bugs (e.g., their hard drive is dying and so they get data corruption, resulting in a game bug/crash), and the like.

With smaller projects (or extremely large, AAA projects with money to spend on people to be tech support), it's easier to have that, or a dedicated "bug report" website or area like a Github or Google Code bug report system. With this, though, you need a good ol' fashioned "bug report" button in the pause menu so that when you come across a sword that doesn't swing or doors that break if you walk through them a certain way, you can hit Escape (or whatever you want your pause key to be), hit "bug report," and tell them in a private message "OMG GAME SUCKS SO BUGGY" instead of it being blasted all over a forum .

But the next issue that arises from that is that you need somewhere for those bug reports to be collected, analyzed, and then fixed. Talk about work! They have to get all this infrastructure ready for beta. I suspect that, along with bug fixes like what Bartwe does on a daily basis, that is what "getting ready for beta" means.

 

To be honest, they kind of do have to release before 2014, or else all hell breaks loose on the forums.

 

All the hell will be directed into this thread where it can be conveniently ignored.

 

I mean, it's not only that, but a bunch of people will ask for refunds and it would really hurt Chucklefish.

 

As long as there isn't enough refunds to start putting a notable dent in CFs' economy I don't really see them caring about it. And CF are probably (in all likelihood correctly) assuming that most people who request refunds will buy the game at some point after release anyway.

 

True.

Still, I doubt Chucklefish would purposely piss off their fanbase.

 

They are by no means deliberately trying to piss people off, they just don't really care if they do.

 

I guess.

 

Except Tiy promised on twitter it'd be out this year. Estimations be damned, if it's not, he made a HUGE mistake.

 

They said before that Starbound was gonna see full release 2013 "no matter what". They clearly don't mind breaking promises too much.