Important BETA RELEASE DISCUSSION - DECEMBER 4TH (*ALL* beta discussion goes here. Other threads deleted)

Denial an't just a river in Egypt.

First, it isn't the first time you've dismissed facts Calris and it wont be the last. You called people chewtoys to avoid an issue.
Second yes.. saying you'll deliver something in 2013 no matter what then saying no we wont is a lie. Blunt simple direct.

Now onto the main point of this. Again it doesn't matter if you want to call it disco instead of lying. It doesn't matter one bit. The fact is how people are reacting. 70+ pages to Tiys responce and a general tide of people saying they have no confidence in Chucklefish, the beta, or full release.

What will it take before you realize that is the issue here. THAT is a huge problem. They are burring their reputation and burning bridges with posts like that with the fanbase. You don't get that people are here desperately trying to stop them from PR suicide. Eventually at this rate Chucklefish will be known as a Publisher/Team that released an okay game but which you should NEVER preorder from.

It'll kill their funding in the future. Nobody will have confidence in them. Yet people want to continue to ignore this thinking its fine so long as they release a beta. Well beta isn't going to solve every problem, not by a longshot. Notch is still known negatively for his work ethic.. you think Chucklefish can escape being known for someone you never preorder from just by releasing a beta? This isn't going to vanish by ignoring it, it is going to take work to clean up their mistakes not just one petty post here and there.

Yet people want to downplay it? Go ahead, I honestly would rather Chucklefish be known for release a great game AND being a publisher you can trust. If they keep this up their reputation is going to endup shot though and that will have consequences down the line. Heck if they don't deliver by Jan1st it likely will have some heavy ones right then.

Pretend it isn't an issue, and keep arguing about stupid definitions, but it isn't the point. You are making a mountain out of a molehill to avoid talking about the fact Chucklefish is still prettymuch on track to be known as the publisher equivalent of Phil Fish(I don't believe it but people have said this) in terms of reputation and I for once would rather not see that happen, and want to see them become a publisher people can fully completely trust... or even reasonably trust at this point would be an improvement.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, beta release /will/ help mend bridges. Just stopping there will not address the issues that cause these fires to spring up or completely solve the reputation they are garnering. This can all be traced back to decisions Chucklefish made and they need to change, and begin making improvements in planning and other areas. Being able to manage and judge time being a key area I would think with how much trouble it has caused them. They can do better but not if it is ignored.

 

You'll notice (possibly, because I don't think you even read my post) that I based the rest of my reply on the assumption that there is such a thing as an unintentional lie. Nice try, but a swing and a miss.

As for the chewtoy, you've got no idea what I was referring to, and I didn't make the comment in reply to anyone or any argument. Oh yes, Xander swings and misses again! Two from two!

Let's step away from wikipedia, shall we, and go somewhere that discusses things in more depth. Try http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lying-definition/ - pretty sure a university philosophy department will have their finger on the pulse here. Everywhere in that document, from the initlal definition from the Oxford English Dictionary throughout the rest of the discussion probing the complexities of situations where lying can be defined, one thing is consistent - the intention to deceive.

Nowhere is there any evidence that CF intended to deceive us. There is no motive for them to do so. Ergo, they were not lying by any common definition of 'lie'. Furthermore, using the word 'lie' as it is commonly used, most people would assume, by the dictionary definition of a lie, that there must have been 'intent to deceive', which was not the case anywhere that CF communicated with us. Ergo, use of the word lie has an emotional impact with anyone who reads it that far outstrips the actual wrong that CF have done - I.e. you are trying to make them look bad.

Maybe you see them as being that bad. You certainly are going out of your way to slander them (and yes, I do mean slander.) But the language you are using, even though it might match your emotional attachment to this, does not accurately portray CF's actions, whether you like it or not.

I believe that makes it three swings and three misses.

 

These two fighting is more entertaining than the thread itself.

 

It's not like there's a lot of other stuff to discuss.

Glad you like the show, we'll be here all week! (or probably month or year at this rate. )

 

I would like to add:
This silent silencing of views and thoughts is chilling on this forum. In this thread I have had posts deleted. I just did elsewhere. No warnings no nothing.

This also reflects poorly on Chucklefish and hinders beta discussion, any discussion really. I'm leaving this here because this has been the thread I've noticed it happening most in.
Beta discussions /will/ become heated as will any discussion on Tiys posts. Removing posts that don't break the rules just because they /could/ be problematic?

You may as well begin banning any account that voices a dissenting view of Chucklefish. I've had to start copypasting up posts into a notepad save at this point, that I make in this thread, because Chucklefish is adamant about seemingly stiffling potential problems rather then addressing them. Yes moderators, you also represent them.

I wouldn't have said anything but this is starting to become a problem. Do you want Chucklefish to be known for silencing critical thought as well from these stealth deletes? You aren't helping by doing that.

 

if had post deleted and worst if had a mod openly attack me and give me a warning for posting something that mod did not like.

ofc posting this my get me banned from the forum but hm ho.

 

Why are you even here then? If you really know so many people that agree with you, why don't you use them? Make a petition or a poll or something, anything to prove that you're not just talking. I suspect a head count would clear some things up pretty nicely. Right now, I'm not seeing this "general tide" of yours, like, at all. All I see are a few dozen very vocal forumgoers who all happen to have dozens of friends that agree with them.

I'm not avoiding your point, I simply couldn't care less about it. I only even got involved because of your little off-hand comment that I felt crossed the line. A point which you still refuse to even consider I see, since you ignored what I said and insisted that it totally fits because they kinda-sorta lied if you think about it real hard and try not to think too much about what it actually *means* to lie. If you can't make your point without wildly exaggerating, you should find a new one. And while you're at it, share that advice with whoever thought it would be clever to compare them to Phil Fish (Please, let's not even go there.) >_>

Probably because it's off-topic. This is a betawhen thread, not a "CF has a problem" thread. There is a minimal amount of overlap, though.

 

I think it's intended to be used for the same, though. It's kind of big net to catch all beta release discussion and whatever goes along with it just due to the overlap, as you said. At any rate, in here is probably better than having a specific new thread for it.

One less thread to keep track of.

 

No, this is a beta discussion thread. "Threads about the release date of beta all beta discussion goes here other threads deleted". Got a problem with the development of beta? Where else you gonna put it? A thread that will liikely get locked within hours by mods?

 

I've gotten the sense that this thread is quickly becoming the metaphorical trash can of the forum. >_>

 

It kind of already was supposed to be.

 

I personally think that trying to have a thread pull a weight probably best reserved for a sub-forum is not a very good idea on part of the admins. It's like putting a bunch of argumentative people into a small room, you'll probably not get anything productive out of that. It'll just be a whole bunch of people shouting about different topics trying to be head over everyone else who is also shouting, it just becomes a loud and generally unpleasant mess. This thread has become a self-sustaining headache that all the moderation in the world won't be able to sort out because it is flawed on a conceptual level as a medium of discussion.

 

At this point, this whole forum must be a headache. Why do they need a forum at this point anyway, if not other then to cause one. There's no beta yet, they aren't taking ideas at this point, and if Molly's tweets are anything to go by, they have generalized the whole community as a headache. That being said I love this community, you really never know what's going to happen next! This place is going to be a madhouse when the release date is announced, I love it!

 

This thread is considerably more productive than any other complaint thread I've seen. Some people don't like these forums but I have a feeling they don't frequent many other forums. This is a very tame place as far as I've seen.

Besides, having a room where those people can shout to let off steam is never a bad idea. Then again, I am a firm supporter of a Colosseum like Rome's.

 

well said if you take away people's rights to complain they don't go why, they just came back with torches and pitchforks.

 

We could always try things Thunderdome style.
Two posters enter, one poster leaves.

That said it is chaotic in here, and a mess admitted. I do agree with them that its an imperfect solution for one heck of a problem. I mean before we had people voicing their views on different separate aspects... instead of a mishmash. Completely horrible that.

 

I don't like how the forums are managed, either, but I do know that forum management isn't easy. As long as they don't complain about extreme topic hopping in the thread, I'll support it.

 

I hope this wont turn into a Day one...

 

I've already been banned for my jokes about what Chucklefish and the Starbound Devs have been doing with out preorder money because 'Some people WILL believe me'.

Honestly, who would believe that they'd take our money and flee to Mexico? Thats ridiculous on many levels. And as stupid I believe the internet is, I don't believe they're THAT stupid, and neither should the admins. Even a yukster like me has some faith in the community.

Besides, we all know gamedevs were all banned/deported from Mexico in the 90s because their programming and dumping of inefectual coding infected the water.

 

Where have they does this to the whole community?

Please do not include the "we want the Beta now!!!" folks with the majority of others on this forum. Most people can find other activities or hobbies not to convulse that a beta is not out yet. There is two months left in 2013, so look at the bright side...you only have at the max 2 months left. If you cant wait that long, then you may need an intervention on how to separate the gamer world from the real world.

Paco