Outdated Avali Race Mod 0.12.4

Hilariously enough, I've been talking to my communication teacher about this very thread. We're studying group mechanics, and this thread throws an hilariously malformed and lumpy cog into the beautiful works of my textbook's section on group mechanics.

We do agree that it isn't a group run on democratic methods. I disagree with her when she says that it's actually an autocracy run by Ryuujin.

The tricky thing seems to be that the group is so fluid. It grows and evolves so much more rapidly than a normal group. Shadow went from a pest to a psuedo-leader and group server organizer in under a week. And it isn't run with a dedicated leadership. It's not like Ryuujin's actually telling us what to do, or requesting us to do anything at all. He just provides vision and inspiration, and then things happen in unpredictable ways. *Metal-collars-interbreeding-genetic-transfer-stims* *cough*

Anyway. It's just about the only thing that's keeping communication class interesting at all. Cheers fellas, this one's on you.

Hmm. Well we know that packs can break up, so they're not completely-set-in-stone-you-will-be-with-these-other-people-for-better-or-worse-the-rest-of-your-lives levels of permanent. That implies that Avali can and do form other packs. However we also know that packs develop private memes, shorthands, and in-jokes for rapid communication. That sort of thing takes time. Pack animals on Earth are usually family units. But we know that Avali packs are usually composed of unrelated Avali.

If I were to guess, I'd say that tribes probably have communal nurseries. About the Avali equivalent of toddler age, the parents start putting them in "tribal daycare." Avali kits will spend more and more time in the communal nursery as they mature, making friends and forming ties. I'd say that the formation of a pack is probably a natural process for Avali, particularly at a young age like this, so by the time they're 10-12 human equivalent their packs will be mostly formed.

Small packs would probably be okay, but again fairly rare. Avali are by nature more social than humans, and mostwould not likely be satisfied by only having a few good friends. Outsider Avali, who never manage to get into a pack, would probably be rare. I imagine that supervisors would try to help these kits out in the integration process. If that failed, I'd expect them to be trained in jobs that don't require teamwork or much social interaction. Solitary duties, or things like data crunching. It's possible that such individuals would eventually team up and bond around their shared experience of being the 'loner'.

I think what Ryuujin was aiming for with Avali who have lost a pack is that they are essentially suffering from PTSD with a touch of "Don't befriend me, I can't let people close to me so that it hurts when they die". Add in the fact that Avali go slowly nuts without others to socialize with, and you get a very toxic vicious cycle of weird.

Avali who get forced out of a pack will probably be bitter and angry, and suffer similar symptoms to someone who loses their pack.

Either way, Avali aren't very stable on their own. I imagine one of the more common forms of insanity caused by lonliness would be to create "pack members" out of inanimate objects. A lone Avali hunter who gets into arguments with his rifle as to how to take down an animal, and confides his deepest secrets to his backpack, as a for instance.

I don't think, though, that the "loner" Avali is very common outside of severe mental trauma or mental conditions. Suggesting that an Avali wouldn't form a new pack after losing their old one somehow is like suggesting that people stop making friends if one of their friends moves away or dies. Or suggesting that humans never remarry after a dearly-beloved spouse dies. Avali need socialization even more than people do, so it makes sense that they'd hurry to form these new connections even faster. The only reasonable exceptions being, again, mental illness or mental trauma.

 

The thing is, if packs are just "families" (albeit not necessarily blood related), then why are they special and not just called "families". I mean, humans are like that. If a human loses their family (although usually blood related), they are distraught as well.

 

But, pack hunters.

 

Interesting take on it, that does sound like a logical system that would arise from how I understand the avali. As for the PTSD sort of things like avali talking to their gear, HUMANS have been known to do that, and given that the avali society practically revolves around social interaction, I'd assume that would be a rather common symptom of pack-loss as well as schizophrenia, self-imposed exile, or what have you.

As for your "loners are rare" kind of thing, think about how you would feel if all of your closest friends and family were killed. That wouldn't be a pleasant experience in the slightest, and you might hesitate to befriend someone if there was a risk of it happening to them too, to prevent that kind of psychological pain again.

 

Thus the distinction I made at the end, that the only justifications are mental illness and trauma. PTSD has "traumatic" as it's second word, and is exactly what you're describing in your last paragraph. Sudden, irrational terror when something reminds you of an unpleasant experience.

Normal, healthy Avali, have a drive to socialize. Even Avali suffering from PTSD have a drive to socialize. It's part of being a pack creature. Humans are that way as well. The only reasons they would seek to overcome this drive is either they are mentally broken and this drive does not function normally, or because they are irrationally terrified of forming new connections because of pain in their pasts. Neither of those are the sorts of things that create happy, healthy, sane loners.

I have nothing against the idea of "loner" Avali. I just suggest that they should be profoundly, tragically broken individuals. What must have happened should have been truly terrible to give them the will to refuse to socialize again, and to keep refusing even after the initial grief has faded.

 

Oops, sorry, I missed that bit. In that case, I agree with you completely. I still doubt you could consider the non-PTSD avali who lose their packs "normal" simply because they're able to cope with the loss of their packs without prevalent psychological damage.

 

Friday, i'm in love!~

Clothing, you're both hard to draw AND paint D :<

 

I think the Avali would cope with loss differently. Say we have an entire pack of hypothetical Avali, dying of uncurable drama-itis. The one healthy individual has time to accustom himself to the idea that his packmates aren't gonna be around much longer. The experience will be unpleasant, but not traumatic or scarring.

Avali form tighter bonds than humans do, so they will likely feel grief much more strongly. But because of the stronger drive for socialization, the Avali will seek out others for comfort. If you then have several loner Avali all comforting each other, guess what? That's the first step toward creating a new pack. It won't work as smoothly as a pack that's been together since they were kits, but it'll function well nonetheless.

(To clarify: I think losing a pack and then resocializing is less like losing a hand and more like breaking your wrist. You can get function back in the hand, but it'll never quite be as good as before you broke it.)

Basically, I doubt that going "loner" is a healthy, normal response to loss for an Avali, since they are so extremely pack-focused. It could happen, but, just like PTSD, would takes more extreme circumstances than your average Avali is likely to face. And just like PTSD, it seems likely that many Avali would eventually learn to cope with their trauma to some degree and reintegrate- some more successfully than others.

One thing that does seem sensible is that Avali would not just induct new members to replace dead ones (Aw, you just lost your friend that you grew up with and was closer than a brother? Have a replacement!). Packs would probably dwindle down to only one or two members surviving before they would be desperate enough for socialization to seek to merge with others.

 

I am trying to imagine a Robert Smith Avali now >.>

 

Thanks for the clarification. Again, psychology isn't really my thing. I can make educated guesses, but those are usually only partially correct, as you pointed out.

Also, pack of hypothetical avali. Aren't all avali hypothetical?

 

Maybe to you they are...
Or maybe somewhere in the vast infiniteness of space they exist. *cue twilight zone theme*

 

These were more hypothetical than most.

Or maybe deep down I really believe, and it just slipped out when I wasn't thinking...

 

ASIDE from Spore, we need an Avali simulator.

 

I understand, I get it too. just not as bad

 

Well, there are theoretically infinite universes, so if we ever develop dimension jumping there's a possibility of that. On a more likely note, given the incomprehensible number of stars in the visible universe, there's a good chance that a planet near-identical to Ryuu's Avalon somewhere (heck, Titan is pretty similar, and can be seen with a moderately powerful telescope), which leaves us again with the question: are the only living things in the universe, confined to this one planet in this one planetary system in this one galaxy?

I'll let you think on that overnight. G'night y'all.

 

Guys, a lot of this stuff regarding pack formation was hashed out months ago, and has been on the wiki ever since.

 

Ah, but we push off of the wiki's intermittent detail to make wild, spinning flights of the imagination!

How do Avali go about reforming packs? How do they deal with grief? What pain could drive an Avali to exile himself from others? I hesitate to paint my assumptions of Avali lore in broad strokes. I prefer to extrapolate from existing information a little at a time. Sometimes I guess right. Sometimes I guess wrong. But slowly I am creating a picture of how it feels to be Avali. What they desire, what they fear, how they think, why they fight, how they love.

Every step we make, even if it adds only the slightest amount of detail to the existing framework, moves us all closer to the ever-receding goal of creating, from nothing but ideas and knowledge and the fairy-dust of creativity, a fully-realized alien race. I cannot be an Avali, so I merely wish to understand them that I may tell their stories better.

...

And I get poetic when I get tired. When did that happen.

 

Caught myself playing Starbound for the last day or so only to play music.

Which gave me an idea to eventually paint my Avali, with a harp.

 

Since when...

 

For a while, it seems.