Are Hellavators still a problem?

This makes me wonder what they have in store for the cores of planets.. Different types of cores (imagine a hollow planet a la Journey to the Centre of the Earth ), weird stuff to find, rare materials to mine etc. And what sort of things they'll have in store for us as preparation for core-diving. Would be pretty cool to discover your way through different tech and personally develop a way to traverse the molten cores of planets safely.

 

Or possibly even... frozen cores?

 

If it works at all like it did in Terraria, certain materials will only be found in certain biomes (deserts, jungles, underground jungles, etc). If I were designing such a system, the true trick of finding the ores you want most would not be to just land on a random planet and dig down. It'd be in locating the specific biome you need in the first place. Which may not even exist on the world you're in. And, in the case of purely underground biomes, it may be tricky to locate them without a more extensive search. In an effort to encourage "proper" exploration, it would be easiest if my cave system generator ended up being the best way to locate various underground biomes rather than random drilling from the surface.

As long as better loot doesn't automatically equal the core of a planet, I don't think hellavators will be a problem.

 

I've played many games with durability mechanics and I've had no problem with them.

You can say all you want about statistics, but I could say the same exact thing about the opposite of your argument.

Durability is seriously not as big of a problem as you make it out to be. If you're out and gathering resources then you use resources to keep gathering then there is some sacrifice, but you can still keep going. Big friggin' woop... Resource sinks like that are all over every single game that you play. Resources are meant to be used.

That's what I've been trying to say, so yes I agree with you.

 

That would be epic. Imagine going to a cold rocky planet or frozen moon and finding giant ice caves at the core. Or breaking through the depths of a planet and finding yourself inside a gigantic geode structure. Hopefully the devs have thought of all this too, because I could literally spend hours just going from planet to planet looking for awesome natural wonders like that.

 

I'm not sure where the best place to post this is, but since this very similar thread exists, I'm adding it here.

I've read somewhat on the issue of cheddar-cheesing the surface of a planet. I didn't play Terraria with people that I didn't know, so I didn't really have this problem (since every hellevator was planned by the group). So, I had to think through the issue a bit, and wanted to share my logical thread (fila logica) with you all.

The first question to ask is, "Why do people want to dig massive holes to the center of a planet?" After all, this isn't a thing that happens a lot IRL. There are a few very specific reasons people dig deep on earth, but it doesn't happen all over, and certainly not near cities.

So, why do people want to dig massive holes to the center of planets in Starbound?
- Rare finds
- Rare exploratory opportunities
- Griefing

Griefing is just stupid, so any old artificial solution would be fine. But the other two are legitimate reasons to try to do something in the game, and so it's a game design issue, and a game design solution should be sought (as, I believe, most people already agree).

This brings us to the second question that needs to be addressed. What’s wrong with getting to the center of a planet?
- Ugly holes all over
- Removes exploratory experience for others.
- Dangerous to other players

The danger issue is present no matter what you're doing, so it doesn't strike me as a major issue... I mean... if someone else decides to run away from a monster in your direction, that's dangerous too, but we don't make shoes have durability.

Trying to think through this more realistically... what would we do if someone was digging up ugly holes on earth?
-Levy a tax for digging beyond a certain depth.
-Arrest them.
On colonized planets, artificial methods like these could be implemented. A civilization or a player (on their home planet) could charge a fee for digging beyond a certain depth. Players that don't pay the fee could be hunted down by an interstellar fanatic/policing organization that seeks to preserve the natural beauty of civilized planets. When the group finds them... who knows what they'll do.

On planets that aren't yet colonized/explored, there is no reason that a player shouldn't dig deep... unless it is a foolish thing to do. So, I would implement more natural solutions for uncolonized planets.
- Cost (such as durability) - it is expensive to fund a trip to the center of the earth. Perhaps deeper digging would have more significant effects on durability.
- Practicality - Most planets might have insurpassable stone layers (bedrock) that cannot be passed by man-made tools. In these cases, only exploration or complex digging procedures (chemical alteration, perhaps) can be used to get deeper
- Lack of Value - Rare items are not found at the center of planets, but dispersed throughout.
- Danger - Two categories here. Dangers that already exist in the earth, and dangers that we create by disrupting the earth.
- Present Dangers: Poisonous gasses, lava, dangerous creatures.
- Produced Dangers: Deep pits are more likely to collapse than shallow ones, digging deep produces a breeding ground for a dangerous creature (such as an acid secreting creature that loves filling deep holes as quickly as possible). Also, some creatures may be safe and passive on the surface (like rabbits), but if they fall down a hole, they become crazy... or... explosive or something... or they rot and spread disease.

I feel like having a variety of less direct solutions is cooler than a single solution that alters core gaming mechanics unassociated with center-diving.

Thoughts?

 

Last I knew it's impossible to even reach the core of the planet.

 

I gotta ask...am I the only one who just took a crap ton of dynamite and made a giant hole and then flooded it with the nearest river?

 

I did that in the ocean, rather than a river. But yeah.

Also, I still say that Hellevators are not a problem. If you're on a multiplayer server, the server admin sets the rules and can enforce them-- this is entirely a social issue, after all. If you're not, why do you fucking care?

 

No I did that too. But if I remember correctly, dynamite was rather expensive in Terraria, so by the time you had enough money to buy a bunch of dynamite, you typically had pretty fast mining tools as well. If you factor in the time it took to make the money you needed to buy the dynamite with, it still takes a long time to accomplish. That or your hacked your stuff.

 

The thing is, durability in its' currently known form does exactly the opposite from the result it is designed for.

Currently known facts about the issue:

1. Durability is supposed to stop vertical well digging, making cave exploration a preferred method to explore the planet.​

2. Damaged tool can be repaired by spending some ore or, free of charge, by jumping to the ship.​

3. You can't jump to the ship from underground.​

Now compare these scenarios:

1. I am digging vertically down. My tool is damaged. I either teleport back to the ship instantly (if "underground" means "no natural/any blocks above my head) or (if "underground" meand "beyond certain y-level") jump upwards very fast, using small wooden platforms set at exactly the right distance vertically above each other, and then teleport back to the ship. I won't spend any ore because of GREED. Face it, you have GREED and you won't do it either.​

​

2. I am exploring procedurally generated cave to travel down. My tool is damaged, and I am screwed. It is either "spend some ore and be tormented by GREED", "suck it and dig slowly from now on", "try to return to the surface and then teleport back to the ship".​

Scenario 2 is way less efficient from gameplay economical point, where resources like "ores", "time", "safety" and "psychological comfort" are important. Its' three solutions are unpleasant by their nature.

2.1. It is unnatural to spend resources to achieve something you can get for free. Works in any game.​

2.2. Painful sluggishness as a reward for supposedly "fun" and "efficient" method of downward exploration instead of quick "spend durability, teleport up and down, continue"? No thanks.​

2.3. Similar to 2, high risk without any comfort, more downtime, for no reward.​

You can argue that "durability management" as in "spend 75% of durability, then go back" can help with 2.2. and 2.3. solutions, but, frankly, it just increases downtime.

So, this durability mechanic does not do the thing it is supposed to do in the first place. Counterintuitively, it pushes analytical players to the most efficient method of downward exploration: vertical wells with small stairs.

Of course, I purposedly ignored the "fun factor" of digging down vs. cave exploration. True, cave exploration probably trumps that. More than that, it is perfectly possible that natural caves are filled with nice loot and there are more ores spawn there than in deep solid ground. Yeah. But if I need to go down for some purpose, like really need and really down, then I am going to dig down. Absolutely. Although, of course, in most cases I will try to explore caves first, at least at start, because it is supposed to be fun if not efficient. But later, with experience, when I just need results? Hellevator.

Same as in Minecraft. Yeah, you can kid yourself and try to do whatever you want, but if you need diamonds and need them fast, you dig vertical well with torch holes and long ladder down to the level diamonds statistically spawn most often. Then you methodically dig around in whatever efficient pattern you are most accustomed to.


On page 2 of this thread there was idea about lessening Hellevators' efficiency by cave-ins. I am fully in support of this feature instead of durability system. Will expand on that idea now:

You saw sand physics, right? It is awesome. Now consider that when you dig vertically and you have non-naturally occured vertical wall, after certain height (depending on materials: less for dirt, more for stone obviously) it has chance to collapse and fall down like it is made of sand.

Let's say we are digging in stone. Dig 20 blocks down — safe. But from 21 block forward there is 10% chance for each block that all 20+ blocks will collapse, forming uneven and ragged, but "natural" wall and probably killing the player underneath. This cave-in probability can be evaded by setting "supports" from player-made materials, like bricks and even wood. Player-made materials are always immune to cave-ins, so the most efficient way to be safe is to change each 21th stone block to brick or wood.

But the thing is, we (players) don't need to know this magic 21 number. It should be somewhat more random. Sure, certainly more than, say, 7 for stone and 4 for dirt, but beyond that — who knows. This will force cautious players to invest more heavily in safety of their Hellevators, probably up to bricking all the walls. And this sort of Hellevator, with artificial walls, looks cool. It is definitely not something you want to get rid from.

If a player wants or feels the need to have fast way to go downward to do whatever he wishes down there, he should not be additionally punished for doing it. "Not taking all the fat loot in caves" and "work hard" are punishments enough.

 

I was just completely skimming this thread and saw this, although I agree it would be really cool, it would be hard to implement, also easy to get stuck in the planet.

Edit:

wat? I probably just missed it but can you cite this? In the hunger games Q&A Bartwe goes to ship from underground.

 

"Hellevators are an investment. You're either willing to make that investment or not."
-Donald Trump
On second thought, he's porbably going to sue me for this.

 

I always enjoyed hellevators...

 

I do hope they come back to look at the cores as some point (or maybe a modder will do something with them), something beyond the cores being off limits entirely as they are now. Even if we couldn't ever go to molten cores, there's so many ideas that could be worked into it (hollow planet, giant geode, frozen core) that it would be a shame to "waste" that potential.

 

My concern is just, if it is a hollow planet what happens if a low level player goes in without gear to get out?

 

Why are Hellevators a problem exactly?

 

Dig upwards. I'm sure from all of that hellevation you would have enough dirt to jump to the ceiling of the core.

 

Okay, let me re-propose that: Someone else digs to the hallow part and then a noob gets on the planet and hops in with nothing.

 

No, I can't cite this, but I am sure that I saw that statement somewhere a while ago. Nevertheless, if that is not truth, it does not changes much. "Dig down, exhaust durability, teleport to the ship instantly, teleport back on the planet, jump down" has way lower downtime than "explore caves, exhaust durability, teleport to the ship instantly, teleport back on the planet, go back where you was before".

Hellevators are just superb way to travel downwards. They aren't designed to explore, they take time to build, but they get the job — getting down fast — done.