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Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by thevlad, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Palicence

    Palicence Star Wrangler

    I fail to see how turning off stacks for anything will help anything. Even if you only remove stacks for materials and upgrades you still have the major issue of thousands of stacks upgrade modules (of all kind) filling all of our chests, I would really like to keep a mildly decent number of lockers in my ship as to not cause clutter.

    Also you talk about "Server Side Characters", and personally would make servers unplayable for me. I have a habit of going back and forth from servers to single player to build or mine, and what if the server goes down for a while, then what do I do till it comes back. I am not in the mood to make several characters for each server I may play on as well as my own.
  2. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Spaceman Spiff

    /admin is no hack
    EvilDylan182 likes this.
  3. FOE

    FOE Void-Bound Voyager

    no, what you saying is total nonsence!
    since save is stored locally, its imposibble to make anti cheat
    i play my character and i bring it where i want, if your server wont allow it, screw your server
    you are making problem out of nothing, its sandbox game, dont want cheaters? - play offline or with friends or any other planet with noone around

    what you want would need either server wipe or huge workarounds, it wont save from cheating, only make it slightly harder, it would rise a lot of inconvenience for players, place huge load on servers, if you want serious protection anticheat, you'll have to pay for it and rewrite most of the game and that obvioulsy wont save you from cheating anyway
    who needs that? noone but you
  4. LilyV3

    LilyV3 Spaceman Spiff

    whats the sense of removing the stackable upgrade elements, all this causes is spamming some more containers on the ship and running forth and bakc more. thats not an improvement at all. Just more grindy.
  5. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    This is an oddly specific and highly uncommon form of cheating, though. Most players who want to "cheat" will just /admin in what they want, and changing stack size doesn't prevent that.

    As noted the upgrade materials you propose limiting are intended to be asymmetrical anyway; players ARE NOT intended to have identical upgrades, or even upgrades of the same "value."

    So again I ask: what problem are you trying to solve?
  6. DBGhasts101

    DBGhasts101 Void-Bound Voyager

    I'm going to have to side with the point that this is NOT a competitive game. If you're playing on a vanilla, public server, chances are all of the players are worlds apart doing their own thing. Even if someone does cheat in thousands of resources, they probably spawned on a planet on the opposite side of the galaxy with no way to reach you or affect your game whatsoever. Even if they are bugging you directly, you still have the ability to fly to a far away system and do whatever you want there. Multiplayer Starbound is NOT a game where you try to beat all of the other players. Multiplayer Starbound is a sandbox where you can check out your friend's builds, or go raid a space dungeon together. You can effectively choose who you want to play with and who you want to ignore using the party system. And even if you're still hellbent on getting cheaters off your server, you can just get a mod to disable sacking instead of having CF making a major game change that will affect EVERYONE, even people who don't play on multiplayer servers.
    Mooncalf99, EvilDylan182 and D.M.G. like this.
  7. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Heh =) I will answer all

    In occasion of, whether game is competitive:
    Hmm ... this is a subjective assessment. For now, you are only the 2nd person who said this. What will the rest of a couple of millions say? I believe that everything depends on the goal of each of us. Try to agree that there is no point in the network game, if you do not have to communicate with anyone. So in fact? And if there are two, then there is also a small competition. Otherwise, this is a single player game.

    Regarding the inevitability of hacking:
    And there is. All super modern super super protection systems have only the probability of resistance against hacking. About this and I say that you need to complicate life cheaters =)

    About the complexity for the players:
    Everywhere should be the principle of intelligence. The same ideas can be implemented in different ways (conveniently and not conveniently). By this post, I'm just looking for ways out of the problems that seem to me relevant. For example, I do not like the crafting system. It is very uncomfortable. Do you like it? I created a post with a proposal. Who responded to me? I can grunt and I can. Try to offer something.

    Regarding server characters and migrating them to other servers:

    Who prevents you from visiting a server where there will be no server characters?

    Regarding the large number of enhancement modules:
    The same can be said about food in refrigerators. You on this forum a lot of indignant about this? Or do you proceed from the principle of sufficiency?
    In other words, why do you need 1000 modules?

    Regarding "/ admin":
    AllowAdminCommandsFromAnyone: false

    About creating mods instead of global changes in the game:
    Nobody says that everything should be implemented at the level of global changes. A good idea!
  8. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    Your English here is very poor and I'm having trouble parsing some of it, but I'll address what I can.

    Is Starbound competitive? No. It is fundamentally non competitive. The game allows cooperative multiplayer. This isn't a controversial opinion, it's a fact.

    Is hacking/cheating inevitable? Yes, in any game hacking is going to happen if a player wants to badly enough. Yes, we should take reasonable action to make games more resilient to cheating. However, your proposals fail to meet two very important criteria for them to be considered reasonable:
    1) You have not established that the behavior you're trying to prevent is undesirable; and
    2) You haven't established any reason why your proposals will be remotely effective.

    I have no comment about complexity because I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.

    I also have no comment about migrating characters to the server because I'm not even sure where that idea came from.

    Is having upgrade items in separate stacks problematic?
    Yes! Unlike food, these items reside in your first inventory tab, where most of your loot (clothing, weapons, consumables) is placed. Also unlike food, which you can reasonably expect to find "in the wild," these items must be hoarded.
    It's also worth pointing out that non-stacking food is controversial and several popular mods remove food spoilage and make food stackable again.

    Can you prevent the use of admin commands by players? On a server, yes, admin commands are disabled by default. However, you can work around this limitation by simply loading your character in single player. The config flag you specified prevents players from abusing God Mode but doesn't prevent them from spawning items.

    I don't object to these changes being made as a mod, since that makes them optional.
  9. EvilDylan182

    EvilDylan182 Master Astronaut

    Money. Upgrade modules are my biggest sellable source of late-game money.
    D.M.G. likes this.
  10. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    With server characters, this will not be a problem.

    Maybe. You can not use the expression "This is a fact" without reference to the original sources. Moreover, everything is developing and yesterday's facts will not be relevant tomorrow.

    From the first message in this topic.

    Just like your statements are subjective, so are mine. Personally, I can not prove anything to you if you do not want it.
    This can only be determined by voting.
  11. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    No. You can't just handwave this away with "it's subjective." You have an entire thread that is literally 100% opposed to this idea. There's nothing even here to discuss, it's just post after post of people telling you why it's bad and you insisting that it isn't without actually addressing (or even seeming to understand) their points.

    If you want to have an actual, productive conversation about your ideas, then you need to give us something more than just saying "nuh uh." Show us that you at least understand what we are saying ffs.
    DraikNova likes this.
  12. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Master Astronaut

    or the mods could shitcan this thread because really
    Masiakasaurus likes this.
  13. Mitroll

    Mitroll Big Damn Hero

    I agree that serverside characters needs to be an option. I don't think they need to get rid of stacking though. Just make the server check a user's inventory when they try to use or drop an item, if the user's inventory doesn't match what the server thinks they should have, then delete the offending items.
  14. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    What's the idea? Me was 4 pieces. But the post is not about the idea... =))
    99% of the threads are discussion about the stacks. And in an extreme degree. And it's the same people. Every next post think up something new that wasn't in the theme of this topic. A topic dedicated to the problem of those players who are faced with the problem of cheating. It is offered to think about it or not write at all. To prove something to you makes no sense.

    Left to learn how to do it? =))
  15. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    Yeah, this is going nowhere.
  16. Mitroll

    Mitroll Big Damn Hero

    Chucklefish needs to change some things before it becomes possible to make something like that. Not all of it is possible through modding. Serverside characters were apparently at one point possible via a server wrapper, but people could still cheat via clientside item spawning mods.

    I really hope CF doesn't forget about this, Starbound could be so many things if this was fixed.
  17. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Spaceman Spiff

    It. Does not. Need to be fixed, dammit.
    Besides, don't feed the trolls
  18. Mooncalf99

    Mooncalf99 Phantasmal Quasar

    "Even laggier than it is now" being one of those things? Constantly having to send messages to the server and waiting to get them back isn't exactly going to speed up gameplay. But I guess for some players it's an acceptable tradeoff, as long as they can deny some other player somewhere else some free stuff.
    DraikNova and D.M.G. like this.
  19. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Master Astronaut

    Not even free stuff. Imagined free stuff, making things worse for everyone including themselves to "fight" an overblown non-threat because they think certain people who aren't them are getting things they don't deserve and goddamit am i talking about a video game or right-wi
  20. LilyV3

    LilyV3 Spaceman Spiff

    It's not about free stuff it's about spoiling the game with cheated items. When did people lost the ability to "play games"?

    Also, it's not about denial, since no one would have to go to these kind of protected servers. But there is currently no way to even protect anyone online from these kind of people.

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