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Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by thevlad, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    Server-side characters almost certainly won't be implemented at all as it's a feature very few people want. That aside, you're missing the point.

    Do players have access to their own save file?
    1. If no, then players cannot spawn additional materials without being given admin permissions. Stacking is a non issue.
    2. If yes, then players can spawn in additional materials or finished items through several means, including just editing in plain text. Limiting stack size does not prevent this.

    In either scenario limiting stack size is ineffective.
  2. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Where do I suggest removing the stacks?
    I think the theme is called "anti-cheat." And the extension of the mechanics of the stateless craft is one of the proposals. Expansion, not disconnection.
    Perhaps my knowledge of English failed me, but nevertheless, read the first post please. =) And offer your scheme anti-cheating, if you want to talk about it =)
  3. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    The desire to be enamored and the real actions of cheating depend on the simplicity of achieving the result. If you can download the program and get a great profit in 2 minutes - they will do it. To edit a file, it takes more time and knowledge, which people do not have, even if you show them in which particular file you need to change something.

    So, such programs can not hack objects without stacks. They are effective, but you are very much fixated on "disconnecting stacks". I'm talking about complex measures and the expansion of the principle of one stacking craft, and not about its turn-off. =)
  4. Mooncalf99

    Mooncalf99 Phantasmal Quasar

    You know what, I'll do you a favor and make a mod that removes stacking: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gnegj0x6wkk3ugz/mini.pak?dl=0

    It's basically an adaptation of TazNukeTerror's "Megastacks" mod - it reduces the default stack size to 1, which makes stacking impossible. (With the exception of items with specific stack sizes, such as from mods.) This should satisfy your first requirement, so please download it and add it to your game, then play with it for a while and see how it feels.
  5. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the easiest way to spawn items is via 3rd party apps, when by far the easiest way is to use the built-in admin commands.

    You also seem to be under the equally mistaken belief that a save file editor can only modify the size of a stack of items already in your possession, when in fact you can use it to just grant yourself any item in the game in any amount.

    This is what we have been trying to explain to you: this change you're proposing DOES NOT discourage item spawning AT ALL.
    DraikNova likes this.
  6. EvilDylan182

    EvilDylan182 Master Astronaut

    In the first sentence when you say "turn off stacks whenever possible" implying crafting materials would not stack at all where they currently stack to 1000.
    I do not understand what you mean here.
    I did read it, and I heavily disagree. Turning off stacking would be the worst.
    Moderation. Banning problem players from the server.
    Speaking to them about cheating and asking them not to.

    Server-side characters, which are stored by the server, as an option for servers.

    Heck, make save data less editable.

    Anything else that wouldn't involve an overhaul.
  7. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Master Astronaut

    i know i said i was done but

    The problem is you seem to think this is a different kind of game than it really is. You seem to think this game is a level-grinding-based MMO where people try to kill each other a lot. It isn't.

    This game is basically Minecraft, and like that game, collecting huge amounts of materials is not needed to progress in "power". "Cheating" to get more materials does not affect how the game plays significantly.

    I can spend twenty minutes casually digging underground and obtain enough ore to make hundreds of ingots, more than I would ever need to "win" the game or obtain the "best" gear. I often do this just to relax. Without "cheating", I have acquired more ingots than I will ever "need" to spend. And really all I can do with those ingots is make new blocks or furniture, which do not affect my "strength". Yes I can make weapons, but I have found better weapons through exploring anyway, because the developer wants people to explore and find better gear, not just make everything.

    The only way people on multiplayer can "cheat" to make themselves too powerful is by modding completely new gear with overpowered stats that do not exist in the normal game. This can be a problem, but changing item stacking will do NOTHING to solve it.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  8. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Wow! You are my best frend! =) Thanks! But disable stacks quite extreme too. =) Sorry for insolence, but could you try to disable stacks for (Manipulator Module, Tech Card, Upgrade Module) only?

    We are alike in this. But we say "a Spoon of tar in a barrel of honey", which means even a small problem will ruin a great thing. You can disagree with me in the matter of the stacks. But I raise the topic of cheating, not the presence/absence of stacks. Not all ideas possible to come true =)

    The main question: "is it Possible to develop tools anticheat"? I suggested 3 options, invite yet... no? =)
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  9. Mooncalf99

    Mooncalf99 Phantasmal Quasar

    Wow, talk about moving the goalposts. I'm really not getting through to you, am I? I'm done here.
  10. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Here the problem is identifying those players. How do you know that the player did not behave honestly, if there's no means to catch them.
    You can think of "traps" for these players. For example, you create 10 virtual boxes. If a player wants to grow the stack by modifying a variable in memory, it will have to guess or be caught =) Crazy idea!
  11. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Master Astronaut

    Okay, this thread is pointless. Might as well be arguing if a gibbon can do macrame for all the relevance this imaginary "cheating" has to the actual game.
    D.M.G. likes this.
  12. LilyV3

    LilyV3 Spaceman Spiff

    no stacking would make it even worse because who does 1000's of trips to build something. That would just drive more people into using admin commands all day.
  13. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Spaceman Spiff

    Might as well end. This guy ain't getting nowhere
  14. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Well, I would even increased stack for building materials. But for some things removed. example: Upgade module/card/module for matter. What do you say?
  15. FOE

    FOE Void-Bound Voyager

    Floran ssays you need a Sstab!
    D.M.G. likes this.
  16. D.M.G.

    D.M.G. Spaceman Spiff

    *paints "D.M.G. Seal of Approval" on the knife's blade*
    Rather than stabbing the guy, stab his idea
  17. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    Upgrade Modules, Tech Cards, and Manipulator Modules are even less exploitable than crafting materials. Changing the stack size on them will sharply limit the amount of loot you can carry since they reside in the first tab of your inventory. Lastly, if you don't reduce the cost of upgrades higher tier ones become impractical (48 Manipulator Modules in separate stacks of 1 will easily fill multiple chests!) and if you do reduce the cost you actually make the upgrades EASIER to get since they're gated by the drop rate.

    The easiest way to prevent cheating in the way you define it is actually to just jump everyone to max tier right away since then everybody is forced to stay at the same level as everyone else.
  18. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    What idea?

    If you leave everything as it is, then you are right. =)
    And if you reduce the chance of dropping 2 times? And the cost is reduced 4 times? Sufficiently adequate. Moreover, it makes no sense to store these modules after the latest improvements. Moreover, there is no sense in adhering to existing mechanics. You can price the price, say on (1-4), but add 3 varieties of the module.
    1. Standart (for 1st update) on all planets
    2. Advenced (for 2st update) on 3-4 tier
    3. Super (for 3st update) on 5 tier or bigger

    It will be even more interesting =)

    Sorry for my English. I do not really understand what I've written, but I'll try to comment ...
    In principle, you are right about the meaning. But, if you go deep into such reasoning, you can watch films from the end =) Sometimes it's interesting to go from the very bottom to the top of the mountain. This is just my opinion =)
  19. Masiakasaurus

    Masiakasaurus Contact!

    Yeah, you can alter drop rates to make them rarer, in turn reducing the value of loot since the vast majority of what's left is either pixels or vendor trash. I would argue that's cutting off your nose to spite your face, though.

    It's especially pointless because those drops are intended to be asymmetrical - you're supposed to customize your loadout. Having all techs isn't even much of an advantage and having a maxed out Matter Manipulator could barely be considered one.

    I'm really confused as to what problem you believe this will solve.
    D.M.G., EvilDylan182 and DraikNova like this.
  20. thevlad

    thevlad Void-Bound Voyager

    Well, I think there is a sense in anti-cheat.
    If we talk about stacks ... it makes sense to turn off the stacks for the upgrade elements. With the right approach, this will not entail problems for players and will give an incentive to explore the universe. And exclude hacking for multiplication of the number of elements in the stack.

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