A Powergamer's Build Order for your first Spring

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShneekeyTheLost, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. Jerev

    Jerev Pangalactic Porcupine

    Ok so I replant the spring seeds when the parsnips are ready.
    I didn't want to keep a whole batch of strawberries just 3-5. Those I will put into a seed maker as soon as I got one. When I get the greenhouse (presumably in fall) I will plant them and use them to generate more seeds. This will not give me huge amounts of strawberry seeds until spring but perhaps enough to matter.
     
    • ShneekeyTheLost

      ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

      Keep in mind that you're going to want 30 fruit trees (Peach or Pomegranate) in your greenhouse ASAP, and they won't grow if anything is adjacent to it, which makes it difficult to use the greenhouse to do that. I suppose if you've got room, go for it, but the thirty trees are spaced out in a grid that pretty much keeps anything else from going in there until they are done growing.
       
      • Jerev

        Jerev Pangalactic Porcupine

        Well I guess this is the moment in which I have to tell you that I am no die hard powergamer. I use your build to get a fast start for my orchard farm (run). I will even build them so that they look nice.

        Here is my 'main' farm in summer year 3

        [​IMG]


        [​IMG]


        So yeah I like your build order for the first spring and I want to build an efficient farm but I will build it nice and as an orchard.
         
          Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
        • ShneekeyTheLost

          ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

          Well, in that case... go for it!

          Personally, I get my Greenhouse up ASAP because it's going to be generating roughly a million and a half per season, above and beyond and in addition to your regular farm, and it gives you the ready cash you need to do whatever you like with your farm... but if that's not a priority, then you can absolutely keep four or so strawberries and use them to multiply in the greenhouse for the following spring.
           
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          • Jerev

            Jerev Pangalactic Porcupine

            This my farm on the 14th of Spring:

            [​IMG]

            In the top left corner I planted 24 oak trees for later tapping.
            Here is the upload.farm link if you want to see the stats: http://upload.farm/1Cu84V
             
            • smileytechie

              smileytechie Void-Bound Voyager

              Since the dirt area in the greenhouse is 10 rows high, you'll have one row not adjacent to any of the trees. So you can start using that row immediately while you wait for the trees to grow.
               
              • ShneekeyTheLost

                ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                In my experience, this is untrue because you have to skip a row in the middle or else you won't be able to place your iridium sprinklers properly.
                 
                • smileytechie

                  smileytechie Void-Bound Voyager

                  Yeah, but since that skipped row isn't next to the trees, you can use it right away, right? Or am I visualizing this wrong?

                  If it helps, this is the sprinkler+trees layout I'm thinking of. The row with crops on it should be usable. Since those sprinklers can't be added until the trees grow, you'd need to use some of the row for temporary sprinklers, if you don't water manually, but that's still a good few usable spaces.
                   
                  • Filmstudy

                    Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                    Outstanding writeup.

                    I agree with the vast majority, but by excluding discussion of non-farming elements, it underplays the need to make rapid progress in the mines, which is the path to sprinkler heaven. So, don't think of this as a contradiction, but simply a complement to Shneeky's build order.

                    The mines goals in order:
                    • Get in on first available day and go to level 5
                    • Kill slime for guild next day
                    • Advance to level 15 (1-2 more days)
                    • Farm bugs (125 required) to get insect head (your primary weapon all the way to level 80)
                    • Plough through the levels as time allows to reach level 80 (I've done so with just a 4 combat skill on day 22 on my current playthrough). Your goal needs to be descent, not salvaging every scrap of ore (you'll scarf up a mess of the easy ore as you go), which is a delay trap. The other golden rule here is to avoid slimes when able, rather than waste time killing them.
                    • One requirement here is to assign a higher priority to 2 improvements to the pickaxe in month 1. That kills off 4 days of mining, so it should be done thoughtfully in combination with other farming responsibilities (like salmonberry foraging and acorn collection)
                    • Farm gold/quartz for quality sprinklers (perhaps 20-40) to begin month 2. It should take just 1-2 days of farming to gather all of the necessary gold once down to level 80. If you're just a little behind this pace, I still suggest planting all your crops with a spot left for a sprinkler.
                    • Open chests and kill some monsters in the 80's. You really need a better weapon at this point and you might luck into a Lava Katana or shard for the galaxy sword. EDIT: I think the bone sword (6,000 at the adventurers guild) is a great bridge weapon from Insect Head to Galaxy Sword.
                    • Before going to 120, farm slimes and sprites to earn burglar and slime rings. The slimes are more of a pain--go back to early levels with improved hoe and get some cave carrots and artifacts (level makes no difference for all but scrolls) as you go. Sprites take 2-3 days max.
                    • After reaching 120, farm the hell out of caster monsters 80-119 and one will drop a prismatic shard in a reasonable amount of time (I'd say mid-late Summer would be my latest expectation), particularly with burglar ring on.
                    • Get the galaxy sword and graduate to skull cavern
                    • Slime and burglar rings are your 2 for skull cavern. You won't have magnetism, because you'll want to be using crabcakes or spicy eel for the speed. That can be an annoyance, but it's a lot less annoying than the alternatives.
                    • Learn timing of swing to kill the flying serpents and you'll actually appreciate seeing them appear. They drop the spicy eel (speed + luck) and lots of other goodies.
                    • Look for the huge purple slimes and you'll have all the iridium you need by the end of year 1.
                    • In a previous playthrough I did 1 mega run in skull caverns where I went down 100 levels and collected over 500 iridium (someone on Youtube got 2000 iridium with a bigger investment in stone), but that cost approximately 200K gold. Fun, but it's not a good return on investment unless it's the first time you're doing it.
                    • Depending on the layout type, by Fall, you should have a full or nearly full set of quality sprinklers and start year 2 with a fresh iridium system across your entire farm along with all iridium tools.

                    My lone disagreement with Shneeky's farming strategy is the energy management component re: wild seeds. I don't think the wild seeds are truly worth the energy investment relative to mines activity, but they can be turned in for 350 per set of 10, so they have a good return on foraging. I actually don't know whether those "crops" count towards farming or forgaing skill when harvested. Does anyone know?

                    One other piece of energy management advice...have your scythe as your default farming implement that you wake up with. That way if you accidentally use it, you don't waste 2 energy or worse, destroy a plant. Care is also required for fishing where those errant casts inland cost 8 energy each. Energy loss won't matter later, but it sure as hell matters in Spring 1.
                     
                      Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
                    • Filmstudy

                      Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                      I'll answer this one...convert them to seeds and then sell them. 10 seeds =350. 4 component forageables are worth 180 (all plain) to 270 (all gold). The extra gold is nice and the 30 free seeds from the library are worth 1050.

                      You will have absolutely 0 need for wild seeds in year 2. Your primary concern will be getting winemaking capacity up to support rhubarb and ancient fruit plantation.
                       
                      • ShneekeyTheLost

                        ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                        If you'll notice, I state at the very top of my guide that this is primarily about farming efficiency, and only casually mentioning the other things around it (such as mining). You'll also notice that I mention several times a focus on needing to get at least to mining 40+ before the end of spring.
                        They count as Foraging, and that is why I focus on them. Without that additional boost to Foraging, it will be very difficult to hit Foraging 6 before the end of Summer, which you need for the lightning rods for the batteries you will need later. Plus you will immediately need Foraging 3 for the Tree Tappers, the sooner the better.

                        True, although I had assumed this was a given.
                         
                        • Filmstudy

                          Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                          I have to disagree on this. If wild seeds planted count towards foraging I'd still defer to summer for skill ups with automated watering. By about the 10th of Summer you'll have a big pop to foraging from the first harvest and another on the 17th if needed. The lightning rods are scaleable at what is then (mid Summer) minimal cost (1 refined quartz, 1 iron bar, 5 bat wings). I've never built more than 7, but if you want more battery packs sooner, one could easily build more.

                          Energy usage in spring 1 is so precious, I think you need to review every available case for deferral and the watering/hoeing necessary to get the foraging gains in spring is significant.
                           
                          • Filmstudy

                            Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                            Another point that combines foraging and acorn collection required for tapping...on a day when your pickaxe is being upgraded, chopping down the 6 oak trees by the spring onion area and the 2 at the bus stop will provide most of what you need for your oak grove. When those trees regrow, they should also be tapped, since they don't use any precious farmland.
                             
                            • ShneekeyTheLost

                              ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                              You aren't going to GET to 6 foraging by the end of summer if you don't start off early. Heck, you're going to be lucky to hit Foraging 3 by the end of spring without them.
                               
                              • J.J. Maxx

                                J.J. Maxx Intergalactic Tourist

                                This thread is great. Really enjoyed reading the numbers and the systems.

                                The only thing that's missing is a benchmark. Like, how much money could you get by end of Spring, Year 1? or end of Year 1? Or how soon in the first year could you hit 1 million?

                                Then we could try and beat the current amount. I think the first season would be a fun challenge. How much money could you accumulate in Spring 1? Granted, some randomness is going to play into every playthrough but I would be interested.
                                 
                                • ShneekeyTheLost

                                  ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                                  There's going to be a substantial amount of variance depending on the variables which occur in your particular playthrough. For example, a couple of extra rainy days could well mean five or six thousand more gold by the end of the first season, depending on how one spends their time. However, the setup I've laid it out will assume you have at the least 15.5k in your pocket to buy summer crops with.
                                   
                                  • Filmstudy

                                    Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                    That's just not true. Current playthrough 6 foraging achieved Summer 14 or 15 with 3 foraging end of Spring from various tree cutting and collect-as-you-see foraging plus 1 round of 10 spring seeds. I'd estimate that included approximately 70-100 summer wild seeds planted.

                                    I think there may be a foraging benefit from the quartz or mushrooms found in the mines, but not sure. If so, it could be that repeating mushroom levels is a path to quick foraging skill ups (found my first after I had already hit 6, but if I find another, I'll test it). The quartz would be just a side benefit.

                                    Is there a tool that allows you to see experience as a number instead of a skill rating?

                                    Basically, having played the game as a pure powerfarmer and miner/farmer I'd say rapid mining descent is the fastest path to farming success, because it fuels all your farming automation needs. So every morning beginning Summer 3 (of year 1) has been harvest of crops, plant seeds to replace harvest, quests/errands, farm mine. The big missing component is watering.

                                    One more point to convince others who are reading: It had been suggested that getting a few gold off ghosts or perhaps buying some gold from Clint helps a lot to begin Summer. Gold is good, of course, but standard farming methods will yield 50-200 ore on a noon-midnight mining day once you reach level 80. You only need 1 such day in spring, with a similar farming day for iron to produce 20 sprinklers (the quartz will all be there in good quantity as you go).

                                    I reached level 120 on Summer 8, but I know it can be done faster, because I took a 3-day delay to farm 500 dust sprites (double loots from Burglar's ring), plus perhaps 3 more days to farm gold/silver to build my sprinkler system. I mention this only because 120 is significant for improving loot drops of some (all?) mobs in the mines. New this play, I started using the savage ring (never used before), which is extremely useful in farming when you are killing mobs like dust sprites, slimes (for the slime ring), and the caster spirit mobs on the fire levels.

                                    SV is a great addictive game, in part because there are viable differences in terms of play style. It seems every group has a strategy to beat all strategies (Shneekey did not claim so). The fishermen, the coffee growers, the strawberry hounds, etc. all have something that can work. I'm suspicious of strategies that minimize or handwave past the time/energy needs of farming, which is why I'm an automation proponent.

                                    Shneekey gave an excellent starting farming strategy and I'm simply trying to provide additional material to complement.
                                     
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                                    • ShneekeyTheLost

                                      ShneekeyTheLost Black Hole Surfer

                                      There is a benefit for anything that is picked up, instead of mined, as they do use the foraging skill.

                                      There's a couple actually, as seen in my Season 2 LP of Stardew Valley. The more important one is Lookup Anything, which will tell you, in numerical value, exactly what your skills are at. This can give you precisely how much of what skill each action grants.

                                      Rapid decent is important, sure. But foraging is more difficult to get to the levels you need by the time you need them, so if you don't focus on that first, you're going to find yourself locked out of getting lightning rods in time for your iridium quality sprinklers for a mid-fall greenhouse unlock.

                                      Getting down to level 80 in spring without sacrificing everything else is simply non-viable. Sure, it's theoretically interesting, but I've never been able to manage it without losing far more than I gain.

                                      Wait a second... three days for the burgler ring? Either you've got FAR more skills than I do (entirely possible) or you're just pulling my chain here. These are extremely unrealistic timings, in my experience.

                                      Everyone's input is valuable, I'm just concerned that you may be setting unrealistic expectations of what you can get out of the mine in your first spring while also trying to manage 80-120+ crops manually (because you don't have sprinklers yet) AND trying to get all your bundles done. Summer? No problem. You can dive down to Gold levels in the summer easily. But spring? I've never been able to manage it myself without crippling my crops.
                                       
                                      • Filmstudy

                                        Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                        Farming sprites has been posted on these boards and Steam. Rapidly go between 45 and 55 finding high concentrations of sprites. Avoid the slimes and knock back ghosts as you pursue sprites. So to get 500 sprites, I had approximately 150 on the plough through of levels going to 80. Then I went back and completed the sprites in a little less than 3 12 hour days using the 45/55 method. Prior, you use a similar method on 5/15 to make the 125 insect kills and get the insect head. After you get to 15, that's about 1 full day and it requires a little skill to manage health when you don't have much healing. Run from flying bugs before hit, kill every vertical/horizontal path bug, which are no risk. Kill the catepillars before they start morphing/run when they do.

                                        I'm OK at the monster farming in terms of chasing and killing, but there are better I'm sure. What I'm really good at is minimizing the time spent on unproductive activities like killing ghosts or slimes that don't need to die and making good choices abut dropping levels with obstacles to the goodies that aren't worth the trouble. For example, one of the key moves is to enter the level, immediately turn and hit the elevator out. With the buttons up for choice of floor, you can then assess the level as a whole and decide how/if to approach it. One important point...you should always be playing with widest possible view via zoom to aid in this assessment (turn on zoom buttons and use min zoom %).

                                        In terms of the descent, it's important to ignore a mess of iron and copper as you go down and if you are fully invested (as you will be for much of spring), it's OK to fall asleep (not die) in the mines in pursuit of that 10th level in a day. So I'd say it's not only viable to get to 80 in month 1, it's easy and should leave some silver/gold farming time at the end of the month. I reached level 80 with a 4 combat skill, so you know I'm not fighting my way down, I'm avoiding my way through with exception of the insects and initial 125 or so sprites. An additional benefit of hustling through the mines like this is the minecarts up and running very early (I don't recall what day I completed, but day 22-24 is reasonable if you reach 80 on day 20-22)

                                        It's important to note that racing down in the mines takes relatively little energy, which is the ultimate resource in Spring 1. Combat is free, but you need some energy to clear stones. A side benefit of descent is a significant amount of cash from the diamonds and other gems. That's one of the few things I go out of my way to collect and please don't feel obligated to turn in a diamond to Gunther until you need to for the sewer key.

                                        I started as a pure farmer and as an actuary, that's what attracted me to the game. However, once I figured out the relative mine payoff, that's where the bulk of the Spring 1 effort needs to go and why I simply hate the idea of wasting energy on farming wild seeds before automated sprinklers. You will have 4 days for generalized foraging during month 1. Those are the days when you upgrade the pickaxe, collect salmonberries, and cut the oaks in SE forest for the acorns necessary for oak farm. That will get you to forage 3 with the other in-the-course-of-play foraging. With the enormous sprinkler system available in month 2, I suggest all melons, but more sprinklers will come on the first couple of days as you turn in the summer forage bundle (30 seeds) and expand farming area in blocks of 8 crops. The wild seeds are an amazing (and not well documented) source of wealth in month 2. There are only 3 components which have a combined base value of 210. However, make those into seeds and they sell for 550 for a pack of 10! I wanted to save some grapes for Vincent or health in mines, but that's wayyyy too juicy a return, even on the gold level ones.

                                        I might do a single screenshot per day post of progress using my method if I do another playthrough.
                                         
                                          Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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                                        • Filmstudy

                                          Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                          Regarding a benchmark for the mining/farming strategy...

                                          I really should have done this on the first day of Summer and Fall, but here are screenshots from first day of Winter, year 1:

                                          upload_2017-1-25_0-1-56.png

                                          upload_2017-1-25_0-0-59.png

                                          upload_2017-1-24_23-59-51.png

                                          upload_2017-1-25_0-18-42.png

                                          A few notes on this:

                                          • I expect most powerfarmers with a standard farm to work with will have substantially higher total earnings, because the river farm has severely limited (and awkward) arable land and mining value does not run through the earning total when it's directly applied to infrastructure (said otherwise, all the iron, gold, and iridium I applied to make sprinklers isn't in income).
                                          • Most of the value of this farm is in the infrastructure already acquired including sprinkler coverage on every piece of land except the barn/coop island
                                          • Still 2 animal products (large white egg, large goat milk) short of greenhouse.
                                          • 2 iridium tools, 2 gold tools, galaxy sword, slime ring, savage ring, burglar's ring
                                          • 44 iridium bars, 63 iridium ore, 14 iridium sprinklers
                                          • Deluxe barn/coop
                                          • 1 shed up with 33 preserving, 33 kegs. 2nd shed being built.
                                          • 435 pumpkins held back from fall harvest for pickling
                                          Obviously, this river farm can't compete with a standard farm for long term earnings.

                                          Biggest revelation was the relative value of wild seed sales, which are an enormous geometric bump to wealth in spring (you can turn in the 30 free ones for 1050 extra gold on day 2 or 3) and summer (550 per pack of 10, which you can make in huge quantity with a fully automated quality sprinkler system).

                                          Let me know if you'd like to see a 1-picture-per-day (or week) post of progress. I'm considering 1 more play with a standard farm to see if I can improve on some of the mistakes I made here. Biggest mistake was spending 6-7 mine days trying to farm casters for a prismatic shard when I should simply have finished the slimes earlier and gone to skull cavern. When I did finish the slimes, I got a shard on my first day there.
                                           
                                            Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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