Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hollow, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Hollow

    Hollow Phantasmal Quasar

      Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
    • Leth

      Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

      Indie Games has always been a tough business, but even more so now that people are unwilling to pay full price for games on Steam (when Wanderlust Adventures launched there were over 100 games on sale for that same week).

      There are 492 games on sale as I write this...

      I don't blame Steam Users for the strong 'wait for sale' mentality - Steam has brought this on itself. We'll have to adapt to this new market.

      As for our reviews, this rationale is also apparent there: The majority of our 'non-recommended' reviews are people that believe the game is 'overpriced' for the content it has, but we believe this is a symptom of this 'wait for sale' steam market and not a true reflection of the game's value.
        Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
        Hollow and Dunto like this.
      • DoEFotGS

        DoEFotGS Void-Bound Voyager

        I buy a game to full price, complete it and have same feeling: game is overpriced for the content it has. And if you look at the reviews, I am not alone. So I believe that it is not 'waiting for sale' symptom.

        I'll bought both of them. Yeah, Gringea is incomplete, but it has much less useless mechanics, true story, not a set of almost unrelated quests and also visually looks better in my opinion. Arcade mode is pretty good, but not a cause to delight.

        Also I bought Starbound around a year ago and it have same problem that Wanderlust Adventures: a lot of game mechanics, but much more of them is useless to gameplay. The game seems empty. Sad but true.

        I do not leave negative reviews to WA only because I hope the game be expanded.
        • Leth

          Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

          I don't think you can boil a comparison down to simply "same genre and released at the same time". There are so many more factors to consider.

          Grindea, for instance, has been in development for at least 2 more years than Adventures. If we were to spend the next 2 years adding content to Wanderlust, it'd become an insanely large indie game.
            Dunto likes this.
          • DoEFotGS

            DoEFotGS Void-Bound Voyager

            Yes, but you already said: "We agree that more content would be awesome, but we also feel that there's already plenty of content in the game for the price".

            But game right now like a empty bucket - great potential, but empty now. Fishing, mining, soul charge shrines, random events, luck-box... it's all useless and have no effect on gameplay. Just extra treasure chest with common loot to this location. if you will remove all of this from the game - core gameplay will not change.

            If you want to compare a same part of it with Grindea - OK.

            For example, fishing. In both games you got fish/presents, that needs to feed pets/companions. In WA presents is a just blue/orange items, that give same value of EXP, that any other blue/orange ingredients. Only legendary presents - unique item, but 25 000 EXP for each one, oh, really? In Grindea you gain a fishes, that need to lvl up a one parameter of your pet. Fish give a more EXP, than any other ingredients, that you may give to pet. Also pets parameters is an additive values of percentage to your character parameters. Better? I think yes.

            Also in WA companion so weak even on max level, that feels like a cosmetical visual effect. Only two or three of them may be useful, but only before or after battle, because in battle most of them always dead. Also all of them have same parameters and differ only in the skill set. Ranged or meele, warrior or mage, human or beast - does not matter, all companion have 5000 HP and 125 ATK. In Grindea pets is a part of equipment, that gives you bonuses to parameters, and the visual effect of the presence of. You need to feed em to be stronger - it's a reason to buy, grind or fishing a food for them. Food, that boost a parameter, that needed to you.
            • Leth

              Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

              A simpler answer to people disagreeing on the value of Wanderlust Adventures is... People value different things in games.

              For example:

              • Dislike fishing, mining and shrines because of a lack of apparent utility (since you offered no explanation here I assume you mean they do not immediately advance your character).
              Alternatively, I...
              • Enjoy the fishing and mining for the skill it takes to master them and appreciate the bonus of getting materials and money for being successful at them. I think they're worth playing just for fun.
              • Enjoy that the shrines present a strategic choice; "Do I give up an opportunity to revive to get this bonus for myself and my team?"

              Because you and I value different things in the games that we play, we consequently have different opinions on the value of Wanderlust Adventures. It's really not any more complicated than that.
                Dunto likes this.
              • DoEFotGS

                DoEFotGS Void-Bound Voyager

                It seems you do not understand what I want to say. I like it's mini games and events, but it pointless. It's just a chest. Chest with common item than I can obtain in any other chest. OK, fishing give you a presents for companion, but spend time to it - pointless, because I can open a big amount of treasure chest for beating mini bosses and obtain same blue food to companion in less time. Mining give you a gems sometimes, but it also pointless for the same reason that fishing.

                When you start a normal life in the arena you gain all common material include gem shards + 4 orange ingredients from each chest. While I was trying to get the required amount of trophies I leveled 4 companions to 25 level. Stack of orange ingredients give 792 000 EXP. A total on 25th Level needed 7 500 000 EXP.

                Exactly, but how it really works: on normal you spend all of you soul charges to shrines, because die on this difficulty is not so easy, and you need materials to craft gear. That's all. On epic you have a choice, but it pointless, because shrine chest never give you something unique - only common loot to craft blue gear that you already have + gem shards. Common loot < resurrect. Always. Because an ambushes on epic - it's HELL, but fair (it's EPIC).

                Actually the core gameplay is: create character => spend some time to craft tier 1 green gear => move to third area => spend some time to obtain blue recipes and ingredients => craft blue gear => complete area 1 quests => complete area 2 quests => complete area 3 quests => complete area 4 quests => move to Mountains => spend some time to obtain recipes and ingredients => craft a best blue gear => augment a gems => finish game and move to Epic => spend some time on Barbuda to obtain recipes and ingredients => gain a Trophies => craft +1 Auto-Revive helm => beat a requared dungeons 10 times => gain a Trophies => craft favorite gear => finish game on Epic.

                Fishing, mining, soul charge shrines, random events, luck-box... all of this may do not participate in the process at all.
                • d2king10

                  d2king10 Guest

                  Just a side note, from the very beginning of Wanderlust Adventures development, we wanted players to be able to do whatever they wanted and not feel held back by doing that. We did not want people to be REQUIRED to fish or be REQUIRED to use shrines to get certain things; they are all optional. Because of this, it is only natural that they all offer the same rewards as if someone were to roam around an area and collect chests. The moment you add things that you can only get by doing specific stuff, like activating certain shrines or fish, you start to force certain players to play the game how YOU (the designer) wants them to play, rather than let them have the experience they want.

                  Many things in WA are there as an option for players to do, and in many cases, to receive the same rewards as another player who is doing something else completely. WA is all about playing the way you want, and adding online play on top of that, we had to make sure that a player never felt they were missing out on things they need while playing with others. Thus why you get the same chests for an area no matter what event you do; it is all about doing what YOU as the player feel you want to do. If you don't like using shrines or fishing, then you aren't missing out on anything, and that is okay in my opinion. Playing a game, especially an RPG game, the way you want and still being able to progress at the same pace as someone else who is doing different things is a design feat, even if you feel it portrays a lack of content/useless feature.

                  I am looking forward to Secrets of Grindea, I think it is a fantastic looking game, but I don't even think you can really compare the two. Both games have clearly different design goals from each other, even if some of their mechanics overlap. For $15, you can get 40 hours of content out of WA, and while you may feel that you have mastered the way to rush through and play the game, at least it is a game that allows you that luxury, while so many RPG's today force you into doing things you might not feel like doing.
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