Year 1 Spring Guide: How to Make Money and Underwhelm People (TL;DR: Fish and then Plant)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shoukry, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Filmstudy

    Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

    That's where I am on gold parsnips. You don't need them and the energy/fertilizer investment needed to go that route is significant as compared to incremental relative value of 5 pumpkins among a harvest of perhaps 1,500+ on fall 14-15.

    I played another game to see if I could keep up with your fishing goals to buy the fiberglass rod on day 3, but I failed on the first shot. No fish got away, but not enough total revenue to afford the rod. Should I be eating spring onions and selling the chub for that first day of fishing?

    Can you give me an idea of your top 2-year earnings number coinciding with Grandpa's evaluation?
     
    • Shoukry

      Shoukry Big Damn Hero

      @Reuter
      I do not use the fishing mod, but if you need/want to I would say go for it. This guide was never meant to be considered a challenge, hardmode, or anything like that. And I would say fishing is probably my least favorite part of the game, so I am with you on that. Having said that, it seems to be a necessary part of the game if you are planning on
      1. Completing the Community Center
      2. Completing the fishing collection
      3. Completing the Museum Collection
      4. Cooking all of the dishes
      So my thinking is, "Why not get all of the fishing done early on?" I still fish a decent amount during the first two weeks of Summer, but after that I have no need to, if I do not want to. This guide is only meant to really push you through the first three weeks of Spring and it hopefully helps you then to be able to mine, ranch, farm, craft, or gift to your heart's content after that.

      I do not think mining is completely viable as a source of income at such an early stage because you will likely not have the energy to mine enough to get to the deeper levels where mining becomes a more lucrative option. This was a big reason why I started fishing, because I used to try to farm and mine only in the Spring for money, but the energy drain was too severe. Every pickaxe swing drains energy and you may not get anything back from it: you may find some Cave Carrots or Green Algae, but at some point your energy and food will be gone. Except for the occasional trash catch, everything you catch while fishing in the lake can be consumed for more energy than it took for the cast.

      Hope that helped. Also, any feedback on potentially more realistic numbers for fishing levels by certain days or Mine level depths would be great! I have played several games starting out this way so I may be completely out of touch with reality.
       
      • Shoukry

        Shoukry Big Damn Hero

        @Filmstudy
        That is a tough one. Since I have started making the Fiberglass Rod a priority purchase on Spring 3, I have only once not had enough fish to pay for it, but I had enough foragables and quest rewards (100g from How to Win Friends and Archaeology for 250g) to get it and some bait. What time did you start fishing on Spring 2? After chopping, running down for Spring Onions, and then heading up to the lake, I seem to get there between 10;30-11:00. If you are just short on cash though, just stop and fish in the town river on the way to the Fish Shop for a few casts to catch some Shad and Smallmouth Bass, which should put you up to the 2000g for the rod and ~40 bait.

        Ha, most of my games only go for about a year. I stopped playing the savegame I used for this guide on Summer 1 and started again to do better with the Strawberries. I was planning on playing that save until the end of Year 2 but I stopped at the end of Year because I was not thrilled with using Sheds instead of Barns for crafting stations, and using Preserve Jars over Kegs. I also had good intentions of trying a "prettier" farm so I scaled back on my farming , but that plan never happened. Anyway, some screens from the end of that game...
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
         
        • Filmstudy

          Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

          Regarding the fishing earnings, I had an extra 350 I could have converted from a forage set I wanted to save for a bundle, but did not get the 250 for the museum. I was ending in the 1400-1500 range total, but I did eat a number of chub. Should I have saved as many of them as possible and eaten the original spring onions?

          As you know, preserving is less lucrative than wine, but when you end after 2 years, you'll have 2 seasons of pumpkin (primarily), so you do well to process it all if possible.

          Here is a picture of my farm on W28 of year 2 with 6 preserving sheds (396) and 9 with kegs (594). I sell off all animals and remove unnecessary buildings like the mill and silo ASAP. Nonetheless, I still got to the evaluation (where I always quit) with a good bit of produce remaining. I know it's possible to make a more efficient combined orchard/ancient fruit greenhouse, but I don't think it's something that can be converted to value by the end of year 2 given the practical limits on brewing. Maybe someone else could demonstrate to me how they do it.

          upload_2017-3-6_15-23-33.png

          I didn't get married in this game and as you can see, I never really came to appreciate having a pretty farm. Mine's always been about maximizing the space. Awaiting Grandpa's recommendation:
          upload_2017-3-6_15-31-42.png

          4 candles. Didn't get married in this game, but I got 16 points towards the evaluation from friends, CC, and earnings.
          upload_2017-3-6_15-32-54.png

          I've been thinking about a Joja game to see if I can beat the earnings with your nice early greenhouse, but if I can't make the fishing work on day 3, I'm not sure if that's in the cards.
           
            Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
          • Filmstudy

            Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

            One more thing...you briefly mentioned sheds vs barns for crafting. Are barns better for processing space per unit of farm space sacrificed?
             
            • Shoukry

              Shoukry Big Damn Hero

              I never eat the Spring Onions or Green Algae during the first few days, unless I am under 8 energy and out of Chubs for some reason. If you fished from 11 AM-1 AM, missed no casts, received nothing profitable from chests, and found no hotspots I would say that is a rare and unfortunate RNG day. (Kind of like the day I just had where I ended with 29 Carp, 1 Chub, no Bullhead, and 1 Largemouth Bass...) That kind of day is not a gamebreaker though, I think. As I said earlier, I would just catch the 5-6 fish from the river and you will only have missed the few extra casts the bait would have given you (unless you find a hotspot in the river) since it is on the way to the Fish Shop.

              Your earnings after two years far exceed anything I have tried to get to. I think I hit ~25 million one time and that was before the berry nerf in 1.1. With my setup from my last playthrough, if I processed all of the Rhubarb, Starfruit, and Pumpkins I would have planted, I would be in the low twenties. You farm on a much grander scale than I. I had more than 2,000 Ancient Fruit outside one time at the beginning of Year 3, but that was easily the biggest farm I tried to maintain.

              Barns are better. A regular Barn is 4x7, costs 12,500g (350 wood and 150 stone are 6,000g from Robin), and holds ~90 Kegs/Preserve Jars/whatever for 3.2 spaces per farm space. The Shed is 3x7, 18,000g (300 wood), and holds 67 Kegs for . . . 3.2 spaces per farm space. However, when money starts becoming superfluous, upgrading to the Big Barn allows -- if I remember correctly -- ~120 Kegs, and the Deluxe Barn can hold 135. (134 is a better layout, in my opinion.) If you want cost efficiency: it's the Barn. If you want to maximize farm space: it's the Barn.
               
              • Filmstudy

                Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                Thanks for the fishing response. I'll give it another try and check the time I reach the lake.

                This is also good news on the barn in terms of relative space and it saves a building (the original barn) from demolition. 69,500 increases per barrel/keg cost by only about 246 over the shed (69,500/135 - 18000/66 = 246), which seems worthwhile to save roughly 14 spots (2 sheds is approximately 1 deluxe barn) of arable land.

                Now I might play again. I'm intrigued with several play style changes
                • Incorporating your fishing techniques for an optimal fast start
                • Trying your early horse method with accelerated foraging and a double-sized salmonberry harvest
                • Seeing if I can maintain a 0 balance system and fall asleep outside every night without screwing something up
                • Finding a way to ensure the largest possible harvests of starfruit, rhubarb, and pumpkin per season, without having to settle for any of the 2nd-best crops (I have some ideas to improve, but I'm not quite fast enough yet to get 5600+ unless I get lucky with rain on day 2)
                • Figuring out how to optimally kickstart ancient fruit production (I think this means Joja for the early greenhouse plus remedial bug farming)
                • Playing without the albatross of livestock
                • Manage the oak sap production to scale to a 750 (or 804 if 134/barn is optimal) keg system
                • Determining what is lost from playing Joja. Can I do the ink quest, for example and still get the obelisks?
                • Trying to accomplish some of the objectives I set in the challenges thread under "grandpa's extreme evaluation"
                 
                • Reuter

                  Reuter Space Spelunker

                  So I maxed out fishing on the 15th, alot faster then I thought. Got the better fishing pole on the 3rd but I restarted the day a couple times because I missed a lot of fish but it got easier. I think I'm getting better but I still hate fishing! But I can't catch the catfish with that little bar lol. Restarted the rainy day after I missed a bunch of em and went up to the lake instead.

                  Didn't have enough money for the stable on the 14th because i bought strawberries. Should I have skipped the strawberries? I almost got 90, I have like 88. i don't know how you can have enough for the strawberries and the stable and a upgrade the next day. Do I need to buy more potatoes for the 16th now with my strawberries? Because I still don't have the stable but I got the upgraded backpack instead. And the mines took longer then you said too. I had to spend part of the 10th down there getting iron. I didn't get all iron tools the first time I played until the winter and the 2nd time was fall so I'm kinda impressed with the spring iron tools.
                   
                  • Shoukry

                    Shoukry Big Damn Hero

                    @Filmstudy
                    Is this supposed to mean 5,600 crops? My interest has been piqued, after seeing your farm, as to what the perfect ratio of crops to barns with kegs is. For example, the final harvest of Pumpkins on Fall 28 would be finished in the kegs on Winter 7, (it might need to be Winter 14 with 3 Pumpkin harvests) and, by that time, Crystal Fruit from the initial harvest of Wild Seeds (Wi) would be ready to make into wine -- even though it is unlikely you will ever have close to the same amount of Crystal Fruit as any of the other seasons' crops.


                    @Reuter
                    Do you mean you restarted Spring 2 a couple of times? Because you then mention restarting Spring 3 at the end of that quote. Doesn't really matter, I guess; that is good to hear you improved your fishing. Catfish are really tough to catch with such a small bar: I miss some every time on Spring 3. The lake isn't quite as lucrative as the river on rain days, but it still isn't bad at all.

                    Yes . . . the steps I tried to outline build on each other, so if you miss one benchmark, it will likely push everything back a little bit. An extra day mining means one less day of fishing, which can be several thousand gold. I don't know when you bought the first backpack upgrade, but that may also have contributed to not being able to afford the Stable; without knowing exact specifics, I couldn't rightly say whether that is the case or not. Also, the Stable is not mandatory: it makes things easier, in my opinion, but it certainly isn't a must-have.

                    I think you were right to buy the Strawberry Seeds, and I would further augment them with Potatoes, (probably 91 if you can afford that many, and if you did have 88 Strawberry Seeds and the 9 Cauliflower Seeds) depending on how many you can afford while still being able to pay for your pickaxe upgrades. I planted 218 Strawberry Seeds on Spring 15 and started watering them on Spring 16 in my latest game, but I think it may have been a mistake because I don't finish watering until ~10:00 AM, and it takes a little more than my entire bar of energy so I'm using more Salmonberries than I normally would. We'll see by the end of the season.

                    Last little blurb, the Steel Watering Can isn't a necessity either if you are pressed for time by the end of Spring. I do it more out of principal of having all steel tools, but I seldomly use the watering can after Spring 27: the Copper Watering Can is generally enough since I don't water most of my crops (Blueberries) on Year 1 - Summer 1.
                     
                    • Filmstudy

                      Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                      Yes, 2800 is the approximate arable limit with all iridium sprinklers and 15 sheds. So 5600 is 2 cycles of a 13 or 12-day crop. Producing 5600 of a wine crop, like starfruit at slightly better than 594 per week (9 sheds @ 66) is too slow. Using barns instead should increase wine making capacity by 50% for the same space (each barn takes 4/3 as much space, but produces a little more than double the wine). Fall is pumpkins (pickled) and winter is nothing (or crystal fruit produced in much lower quantities; or pomegranate; or previous leftovers). You also have to set aside almost 1 complete barn (116 kegs) just for ancient fruit wine making. With an expansion to 6 barns for non-ancient fruit (804 kegs), you could process all of the starfruit in 7 weeks (finish early winter). Those 5,600 starfruit wine from the Summer 2 crop have a market value of 17.64 million gold, which could easily be half of your earnings from a 2-year game.

                      Major constraints on maxing out starfruit wine production in this manner:
                      1. Getting the entire crop planted in 2 days. I've got ideas on how to do this more efficiently, but I'm sure I don't need to explain them to you. Suffice it to say, hoeing, manual watering, and unnecessary movement on Summer 1-2 are the enemy.
                      2. The up-front capital for starfruit seeds (2.24 million gold in 2 installments by Summer 1 and Summer 15).
                      3. Perhaps the biggest is oak resin (938 for 7 complete barns). A large oak farm is going to cut into arable land and income.
                      4. Other materials for the kegs (1.618 million if purchased for 938 @300 for the wood, 525 per copper bar, 900 per silver bar)

                      It's a significant operations research puzzle, but I think the key is Joja with a big kickstart on ancient wine production from a Spring 1 greenhouse. I think it's also possible rethinking of the choice between gemologist and extra metal per node is worthwhile.
                       
                      • Shoukry

                        Shoukry Big Damn Hero

                        Just a couple of quick thoughts on these:
                        1. If I plant Rhubarb in Spring, (or Starfruit or Pumpkins in their respective seasons) I'm laying down Deluxe Speed-Gro to get 3 harvests. During the last harvest, I plant Parsnips while harvesting since they're only a 20g investment to scythe away and have the ground watered for Summer 1. I use Coffee Beans for the end of Summer and I don't bother with it at the end of Fall since there is a 2-day grace period to get in five harvests of Winter Seeds with Deluxe Speed-Gro, and, of course, I'm using Winter Seeds crafted from the last harvest to put back in the ground to start the cycle anew.
                        2. If 5,600 is the number simply because that's the most you can plant then this can be ignored; but if your goal is to have 5,600 total you can do the three plantings and only do ~1,900, which seems much more reasonable to plant in a day with everything hoed and watered already. I know slightly more than 2,000 is possible, for sure, with Spicy Eel and Coffee since I've done that once before.
                        3. I like to plant a lot of my oaks for tapping off of the farm. The train station, in particular has a lot of space that no villagers walk through. Almost 200? (Don't quote me on that exactly.) If I recall correctly, ~55 oaks can be placed around the lake in Cindersap, the Backwoods, and the Bus Stop, and if you planted along the river that is a whole lot more to keep your farmland open.
                        4. 1.6 million seems really cheap for so many!
                         
                        • Filmstudy

                          Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                          Good stuff.

                          Now I want to try the train area for planting oaks. Will they stay through the seasons or are they reset at some point? Do they drop seeds while standing like oaks on your farm? Same questions for the desert. That would certainly meet the space needs for oaks.

                          To answer your question, 5,600 is approximately the max with 120 iridium sprinklers, a small grove of oaks, 15 sheds, and no unnecessary animal or beautification options/mills/silo/slime hutch on the standard farm. I'd love to see any configurations people can come up with to produce more. I should mention that's also with no paths. I don't feel like I need paths since horse speed is similar (if not the same) over crops or other terrain.

                          I've almost never used fertilizer or speed gro, so I don't know about the time involved to lay down 1900 of it. Does that time requirement present a secondary constraint? Can you get 3 harvests of a 12 or 13-day crop?
                           
                          • Shoukry

                            Shoukry Big Damn Hero

                            @Filmstudy
                            Looks like you can get ~170 trees in the Train Station. I couldn't find a pathing map for the Train Station so I had to make one. The trees don't drop seeds like on the farm so the paths between stay clear without floors. No idea about the desert: still haven't tried it.
                            [​IMG]


                            You can get whatever kind of fertilizer down with 2,000 crops if you have only to scythe dead crops away. I don't think it would be possible if you're trying to hoe and water as well. 12-13 day crops become 9-day harvests with the Deluxe Speed-Gro. It seems to round down after multiplying the harvest days by 0.75, which I've never been one to complain about.
                             
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                            • Reuter

                              Reuter Space Spelunker

                              Hey so I finished spring but I didnt meet all your goals. I got all the silver tools. Farming was 7 mining was 7 foraging was 6 fishing was 10 and combat was 5. I had 50 sprinklers but i didn't have enough gold to buy all my melons and blueberries and the other crops i wanted because I still went the CC route. Only had about 20000 gold. Maybe it was because I built a barn and coop to? But you had a greenhouse in your's. Finally built the stable on the 19th and i got a whole ton of salmonberries. Like more then 500. The first 2 days I barely got any, but the last 2 days they were there I got almost 400. I didn't get everything exactly how you said but this is more then I've ever had before so I'm not complaining or nothing. Might wanna back down your goals for people doing this the 1st time a bit. Good guide though. I'll probably try again if I start a new game to see if I can get more then I did this time. thx
                               
                              • Filmstudy

                                Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                I couldn't match @Shoukry fishing success either, but I don't think it would delay your CC finish by much not to have the barn or coop in Spring. My best Spring so far by the mining only route is 61 sprinklers and about $37.5K in available cash on spring 1. You're also ahead on some tools you might not need with all those sprinklers...the watering can in particular. For 2 melon harvests, you only need get your crop planted by day 4, for example.

                                May I ask, did you go to level 80+ or did you do the iron conversion to gold method I have seen mentioned?
                                 
                                • Filmstudy

                                  Filmstudy Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                  Thanks. This is extremely useful. I thought I tried to plant trees in the forest without success, but this is a big new revelation. Bottleneck with this info may be the acorns to plant, but it's an enormous savings in crop space as well not to have that oak grove on farm and a time savings not to have to maintain it.

                                  I have to ask again...Have you have maintained trees there throughout the seasons to make sure there is no reset of plantings?
                                   
                                  • Shoukry

                                    Shoukry Big Damn Hero

                                    @Filmstudy
                                    Yes, the trees last just fine for me unless it happens to be in the way and a villager decides to morph through them. If that happens, I've noticed the tree remains, becomes unchoppable, and the tapper is destroyed. One time in the Backwoods, all of my tappers decided to spontaneously explode upon collection, but that was one time. The caveat is the ground needs to be hoed before you can plant an acorn/maple seed/pine cone off of the farm. So dirt tends to be the only option -- which is why I like the Train Station, and it fits in nicely with my Saturday round of foraging -- but if worms are hoed on grass, a seed can be thrown into that. Same rules apply that they need a space in between to fully grow.
                                     
                                    • Shoukry

                                      Shoukry Big Damn Hero

                                      @Reuter
                                      That's frustrating to hear you didn't meet all of the goals: I'm sorry. May I inquire if your total earnings were around ~100,000g? I never explicitly mentioned 100,000g as a benchmark, but it was what I was working for when I wrote this out. Off the top of my head, the figures roughly came out to
                                      • 3,000g for the Fiberglass Rod and bait throughout the month (supplemented by Bug Meat)
                                      • 28,000g for tool upgrades
                                      • 10,000g for the Stable
                                      • 12,000g for seeds to reach Farming 6
                                      • 2,000g for the first backpack upgrade
                                      • 25,000g in hand on Summer 1
                                      • 20,000g for other pursuits
                                      So, hopefully, since you got the fishing pole, hit all of the upgrades, got the stable, bought the seeds to reach Farming 6, upgraded the backpack, had 20,000g on Summer 1, and spent the remaining 20,000g for other pursuits on the final backpack upgrade (10,000g) you mentioned, plus your barn and coop (6,000 and 4,000g); and I assume you also bought some animals for those buildings. So, of no use to you since you ended up being short on seed money, I'm slightly hopeful that it worked itself out to how I was thinking it should. And for that, I apologize, as I should have put some of those figures in at the beginning.

                                      I am glad it mostly, probably, kind of, sort of, maybe, slightly in some way helped you out. Thanks for trying it and for your feedback.
                                       
                                      • Reuter

                                        Reuter Space Spelunker

                                        Yeah I wanted the silver tools though. Never thought I'd get em all in spring so I liked that as a goal for me. I got to the bottom of the mine to. Kinda happened one day when i was trying to get the stardrop and stairs kept appearing. Shourky talked about the obsidian edge being good in a note for the dusty's so I got to lvl 90. Then I went from lvl90 to 120 in a day lol. It was crazy fast.
                                         
                                        • Reuter

                                          Reuter Space Spelunker

                                          I was over 100000. it was under 110k but it was over 100. I bought 4 cows, 4 chickens, bought all wood with money pretty much. I'm gonna do more animals this time playing. 4 goats and 4 ducks when I upgrade those. And 4 pigs and 4 rabbits. Sheep are meh. Guess I could of saved some money chopping trees? Had enough stone though for both with all the mining. I'm not mad or nothing and that makes sense cuz I bought so much for animals. Bought a silo to but there not that expensive are they? How'd you get the greenhouse? There more then the animal buildings aren't they? I'm glad other people figure this stuff out so i don't have to.
                                           

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