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Outdated Avali Race Mod 0.12.4

The only fluffy nomadic space raptors!

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  1. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    This. the next patch i am working on (one of the last 'big patches') will add random encounters in the wilderness which reward data chits and are much more frequent than avali settlements. Data chits are designed to reward and encourage exploration and discovering stuff about the Avali (Eventually they'll be found on info terminals in settlements too)


    Well then maybe you'll understand some of this...

    *Refreshes self and double checks the notes... comes to a different conclusion*

    Okayyyyy....

    There's a few mechanisms at work ....but on re-examination for myself the danger posed CHEMICALLY by water is really badly overstated, the original sources I got my information seemed to think ammonia and water reacted directly; on closer inspection for myself I'm not so sure this is the case

    At any rate - as you probably know, acids/solvents do not exist just as their molecular form, but dissociate into ions - ie liquid water actually consists of both H2O molecules, but also H+ cations and -OH anions. Ammonia is a strong base (If memory serves it has an unbonded electron pair forming a tetrahedral pyramid), in water it dissociates and is thus soluable in water. In other words it'd serve to dessicate and dry out tissue by locking away ammonia in solution. It certainly reacts with OXYGEN, but the bonding in the -OH anions is far too strong to strip it all the way down to oxygen simply through dissociation; not in any useful amounts anyway. Also while water in this context is an acid, Avali structural biology is carbon based like humans, so I wouldn't expect their tissues to be particularly reactive to acids.

    But that really doesn't seem to be a big deal at the end of the day. A bigger issue is simply thermal; that liquid water and liquid ammonia have grossly different boiling/melting points, and will rapidly vapourise the ammonia into gas form on contact. However, again, unless the water is coming into DIRECT contact with Avali soft tissues or blood or they are completely immersed and thus experiencing rapid conduction of heat into their core body; I don't see this being nearly as big a concern as xenobiology discussions in the past have made out. On paper, being splashed or rained on, or even wading in shallow water should have minimal effect if body temperature is ignored. Even being splashed in the eyes, mouth or soft areas is more likely to sting than cause a re-enactment of the scene from raiders of the lost ark.

    Think i may need to revise the wiki after this; it seems more like water is inconvenient and extremely hot, more than it is chemically dangerous....

    That is handy, because mechanically then in Starbound, I can represent water exposure purely in terms of a massive heat modifier, rather than an acid or lava like substance that deals direct hitpoint damage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
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  2. Deathedge736

    Deathedge736 Giant Laser Beams

    getting back to my ship issue: is the lag while on the ship due to the mod or the game?
     
  3. Calabrese

    Calabrese Guest

    I have zero lag while on ship, but on the planets it does lag a little... I think it's a game issue, the mod doesn't add anything the game doesn't already have plenty of AFAIK.
     
  4. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    People've been reporting increased lag since last (game) update even unmodded ones. I'v e noticed the same thing on my ship but I cannot see any way this is related to the mod.
     
  5. Deathedge736

    Deathedge736 Giant Laser Beams

    I didn't think it was the mod but you know more about code than i do so I thought asking you was good for confirmation.

    nice to know its just the game.
     
  6. hydran101

    hydran101 Void-Bound Voyager

    yes, I could use that weapon but Id rather use only the meat, armour bandages and chest from that mod and the unlockers, I use the mod mainly for building and stuff. Plus if I find only one chit I can duplicate it with the duplicator (x100)
     
  7. Silavor

    Silavor Pangalactic Porcupine

    Ryuu, back in the day (like, 200 pages ago) you pointed out that water to an Avali is less 'deadly lava' and more 'melted candle wax'. I always liked that analogy, and it fits with what you pointed out in that last wall of text. Molten ice might scald your soft tissues, it might solidify on your body and get caked between your feathers, but it's not going to instantly melt you into a pile of goo at the slightest touch.
     
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  8. RyuujinZERO

    RyuujinZERO Supernova

    Hyperbole aside, his point is, that by design, chits are meant to be rare and are a reward for exploration. By duplicating or crafting them you are undermining their purpose in terms of gameplay mechanics; of course, you are free to cheat your pants off if that is what you desire (In single player anyway), that's the beauty of offline modable games.

    At any rate as I've explained before, their current rareness and the limited upgrade options are simply due to the fact the feature is in an incomplete state. next patch you'll be getting random encounters that reward chits. Then after that I'll be adding additional upgrade pathways and ways to upgrade items between tiers.

    Yeah it was between then and now that someone in a xenobiology forum discussion suggested that there was actually a hazardous CHEMICAL reaction going on due to the dissociation of water into -OH anions. But having re-investigated that for myself i believe his calculations were way off and my original statement still stands.



    EDIT: All this chemistry talk leads to an amusing realisation.

    The Avali tech level is plenty advanced enough for them to mass-produce refined diamond in huge quantities from graphite feedstock (Like, sufficient that they could manufacture diamond sheets from graphite to use as building material)... I guess that is one tech I won't be introducing for balance reasons
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
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  9. Calabrese

    Calabrese Guest

    I had thought it was weird that people were referring to an ammonia + water reaction as dangerous, when my chemistry knowledge does not include anything like that. I had assumed it was just me being uninformed, or that they were referring to a reaction in exotic conditions, but now I see it's not the case. I'm not a xenobiology expert, but I majored in Chemistry, studied a little biotechnology and worked five years in a lab, so I thought I'd give you my thoughts on this matter.

    You're almost completely right in saying that the problem with water and ammonia is more thermal than anything. Certainly, the introduction of water into the body of an organism whose primary liquid solvent is ammonia would heavily shift the delicate chemical equilibria required for enzymes to work properly, and generally for proteins to maintain their structure, which would be disastrous and basically equivalent to direct poisoning with an acid or base. This is probably what the person from the xenobiology forum had in mind.
    However, taking into account that liquid water and liquid ammonia cannot co-exist at the same temperature in anything but around and over 5 atmospheres of pressure (sources: [1] - [2]), this risk is irrelevant: an Avali exposed to large amounts of water would have their blood boil before they could be poisoned.
    Now, let's suppose what would happen if an Avali went to a planet with such high pressures for ammonia and water to co-exist. Even when I don't know what effect such an increased air pressure would have on the tissues themselves, I believe it wouldn't be so troublesome: for example, deep divers are subject to tens of atmospheres of pressure and survive breathing pressurized gas mixes. Rather, the problem is that high pressures increase the solubility of gases in liquids, and having more gases dissolved in one's bloodstream can have dangerous side-effects. Nitrogen narcosis in divers is a good example, as well as oxygen toxicity, and both of them seem to begin having dangerous effects at around 5 atmospheres of pressure. In short, this means that for a human to survive in a planet where water and ammonia could co-exist in liquid form, they would have to at the very least use a breathing apparatus; this could theoretically be extended to the Avali, and in that case they could just be using a closed full-body suit with breathing systems incorporated and solve two problems at once.

    Still, there are other risks. Depending on how exotic their cell composition is, there could be a chance of dangerous reactions with water or other substances; however, I don't remember having seen any data or speculation on this subject in your Wiki.

    EDIT: Oh! Another thought: liquid ammonia can dissolve substances that water cannot, most interestingly, metals. If water managed to enter an Avali's bloodstream and mix with it, there would also be a risk of water-insoluble matter precipitating and causing embolisms.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2014
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  10. J_Mourne

    J_Mourne Pangalactic Porcupine

    Ah, do you smell that? It's the sweet, sweet, odor of science...
     
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  11. Glitchfreak

    Glitchfreak Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Hey there.
    I don't know if this bug has been brought up yet, but the Am2 Firelance gun allows you to shoot other players on multiplayer servers. I think it requires a full charge in order for it to hurt another player though.
    I truthfully love that I can shoot other players though because I can annoy my friend with it. :sneaky:

    Anyways I just wanted to post this bug here incase it hasn't been brought up yet.
     
  12. Calabrese

    Calabrese Guest

    LOL! I wish science smelled good for me... in my years of working at a lab, at best it smelled of acetic acid, alcohol and esthers... at worst, I was coughing on sulphuric acid fumes, or running to switch on every ventilation system when somebody accidentally spilled pyridine. And let's just not talk about the year I had to work with pesticides... I became too well acquainted with chemical cartridge respirators at my job.

    First time I hear that. Does it only happen with the AM2, or with the other snipers as well? I don't play online, so I haven't seen this issue, obviously.
     
  13. Glitchfreak

    Glitchfreak Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    I have no clue. I've only tested it with the AM2. My guess is it will most likely do the same thing with other Firelances.
     
  14. Calabrese

    Calabrese Guest

    Well, I'm not an expert in modding, and there are a few things in the relevant mod files that I don't understand so I'll let Ryuujin take care of this. Just in case, are you sure you can hurt them only with this weapon, and that they don't have PvP activated?
     
  15. Glitchfreak

    Glitchfreak Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    We didn't have PvP enabled and we tried to kill each other with the other guns that we bought from the merchant in an Avali settlement. The Firelance was the only gun that could damage other players.
     
  16. Zaffa

    Zaffa Void-Bound Voyager

    I can confirm that all Firelances will deal damage to non-PvP players in multiplayer servers, as will any Blizzard HE's (or any vanilla explosive gun for that matter). I think it might be because of the piercing modifier (just as it's because of the explosive modifier for the BHE), but I've yet to test this with my vanilla piercing gun. I'll report back when I do.
     
  17. SKyWee

    SKyWee Void-Bound Voyager

    huuh?:lod:

    sorry I don't understand :cry:
     
  18. Calabrese

    Calabrese Guest

    Nice testing! Vanilla explosive guns hurting other people sounds like an oversight by part of the developers, though. You shouldn't be able to force PvP on other players that might not even be able to fight back.
     
  19. SKyWee

    SKyWee Void-Bound Voyager

    hum guys is this my pc only but....why can't I remove the ship's lamp? :oops:

    Sorry if this question have already be answered ....:notworthy:
     
  20. David Wolfe

    David Wolfe Void-Bound Voyager

    well here it goes...

    ive been looking all over the enternets for some coords for the avali settlements but i cant find any. someone halp me!
     
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