Important BETA RELEASE DISCUSSION - DECEMBER 4TH (*ALL* beta discussion goes here. Other threads deleted)

Yes. But the part about the preorder money speeding up development was a lie since he stated it would be out 2013 no matter what. There are very few possible reasons for this, and none of them paint CF in a favorable light.

-Feature creep killed the chances of beta/release coming out at any point before Q4.
-Seeing all the money, they took the opportunity to cram as much as they could into it before the end of the year. This is a bit like the above, but this one implies it was very deliberate.
-Instead of using the money for starbound as they should have, they used it to start up their publishing end of things, giving a good part of that money to Stardew Valley, Risk of Rain, and TAW.

Those are the only ones i have right now, but yes. If the second or third reasons are true, it was a lie. In the case of the first outcome it was a lie but not so intentionally. I fear for their future as a publisher, and i hope it doesn't hurt the developers who come to CF for publication to get off the ground. All these poor choices/unprofessionalism/poor management of funds or time in the end are going to hurt quite a bit. If the idea of starbound wasn't so fantastic, this sort of thing wouldn't have gotten them very far. Their goose laid a golden egg, and no matter how poorly they handle it, it's still a golden egg.

 

Don't forget going to I49... that must have been a pretty penny, paying for tickets, food, hotels, floorspace, etc.

 

Will do the same probably if the dev decides to put the beta release in October,November,December or even next year.

 

True as that is, that was for the promotion of starbound, which is 100% expected and acceptable.

Now that's from a factual standpoint. My opinion? Should have kept it just people playing and youtubed that instead of headlighting yogs. Did it help them a good amount? I have no idea. But the biggest problem i have with the i49 situation was that they didn't release that "demo" to the preorders. That would have been the best move they could have done. Not some big advertisement that preordering the game you get the demo, not some massive thing about it. Just a "We're letting people play the game, and since all the preorders helped us out monumentally and you're all cringing for a beta, here's a copy of what they got to taste. It's buggy, it's unfinished, and it's not going to be patched. But it's a thank you and something to mess around with and get a taste. Beta is still coming, just bare with us"

I would have had plenty of good things to say about that move. It would have been a step in the right direction. But instead they set threads like roadmap and this one so we can talk about it here and they don't have to see it. Don't believe that? Stalk the devs when they're on here and see what they're reading. Since these topics were made, i think i saw one of them glance once. Period.

 

As someone who pre-ordered day one i'm getting a bit twitchy about the wait. The part about youtubers and press getting a release before beta even though we all paid is a bit disheartening I understand you want to get more eyes on the product and hype it up a bit and maybe i'm just really excited to play the game but it just doesn't feel right, let the press and youtubers play the beta.

Don't get me wrong though, still glad i pre-ordered and love the devs.

 

Thing is Chucklefish as a publisher will actually get that money back and more.

Also there is only so much you can really spend on development. I've read somewhere that CF only needed 250k to be able to fully commit towards making of the game. The rest is just surplus they can spend on whatever really.

 

This would be a perfect point if Tiy didn't say in more than one place "preorder money will help speed up development" and here we are, year almost over and there's not even a mention of a beta date. That is a lie.

Also unless the staff list on that interactive house page thing with the pictures on the wall is out of date (like everything else) they only have four coders and like 12 artists. It's too late in the game to correct now, but something tells me if they stepped it up to 6 coders when they hit 500k ish, it wouldn't have dented the wallet that much and it would have actually done what he claimed.

On that note, i fully understand that by supporting Starbound development i am in turn supporting CF. Whether that was what i wanted or not is irrelevant (though it very wasn't), but i can say based on what i've seen so far i don't see me purchasing another CF title. It is a shame too, cause Stardew Valley looks nice and i'd love to support that developer. But since there is no way for those funds to not go to CF as well, that is some coin they won't be getting. Now yeah, one guy and all. Drop in the bucket, whatever. But I'm just someone who voices his opinion on the forums. There are possibly more who feel the same way and realize that spending the time talking about it is a waste of time. So this drop in the bucket may be more than they think. And i truly do mean it when i say it's a shame that the indie developers are going to suffer from it, but then again if they're published are they still considered indie? Whatever the case. Here's hoping CF as a publisher gives them whatever cash needed to keep them in business and offsetting whatever purchases they lose because of it.

Yes, before you say it, i suppose i can be considered butthurt. Really it's cause and effect. If they act a way i feel is poor, then i won't give them money. The difference being i'll also give my reasons why.

 

"Eventually". Yea..that is the problem.
You simply don't donate to red cross for them to play in casinos and say, they will eventually win some money back and help the ones in need.

I am not saying I know what they did with the pre-order fund, just simply pointing out the logic problem in the first statement. No offense is intended...

 

Then how come other developers can give dates months and months in advance. Sometimes even a year or more?

Before you say well those a "professional" studios.. what about Terraria?

Right now Terraria suffered setbacks BUT was open, set dates but explained why the update was behind.. and now people trust that come Oct 1, there will be an update.

Is it really that hard for Chucklefish to be open and transparent with its customers?

I see no reason people as skilled and creative as those on this team can't do something so simple that a majority of game makes do. Easily they could give us a hard and fast date. They have just lost the nerve to. This isn't new technology either as Tiy told me in a response. Random generation used procedurally has been around sometime in roguelikes as has Terraria style gameplay obviously.

This is not the undiscovered country here. This is the improved country, that a reasonable estimate for shouldn't be like pulling teeth to get. Not when publishers and developers do it /all the time/.

 

Because every studio is different. They are pretty transparent already. Just because a mechanic has existed along time does not make the programming of the game automatic.

 

1. Then Chucklefish isn't reaching for the standards it could achieve.

2. It is blatantly clear that to some fans this is not the case, as they are requesting more.

3. Serenity, you are ignoring the point hard. If I draw a house it isn't automatic - but its been done before. They DO have examples to work with and look at. In fact in coding streams they have even looked up examples! The fact is, the techniques used are NOT new even if this configuration of it IS.

I'm not asking for beta, but frankly? They could easily set a date. They could talk to people. Instead they have chosen to keep quiet and just code. So this overflow on the forum is the result in regards to beta. We are on page 52, this will probably grow to 70-90 before December. Yet if they could manage that one thing.. which with as much talent as they have shouldn't be that hard? This would not be an issue.

 

This is exactly what I think as well.

 

hmm, i want to know who in this forum ever been in a game company before. Well i already have, and one thing that i could tell is that making games is not easy as you think. Yeah, maybe they could take examples in other game codes, but i have seen many cases of one company suing another because of codes that looked alike. And yes, random generation of planets isn't really news, but the way that starbound does is, it's not like the planet is random, it's more like EVERYTHING is random, and things like this aren't really easy to make.

Answering the question made above, What about terraria? well, the story that i know, terraria wasn't that transparent at all, the last version of the game was in 17 of january, after that the devs simply dropped the project, people complained alot and they just ignored it, it's a surprise that they started working on terraria again. Another point is, the october 1st is just an update, what i mean is, they are not releasing a new game like starbound, they are just updating it (and that update is not that big) and updates are much more easier to predict the release date.

 

To be honest, and I don't mean to be rude or anything. From the sound of your post, I don't think you have been in the "coding beezknees"..
Sure, it is not as easy as they think, but given this much fund, and this much time..meh..nope..just nope..

 

Because they are forced to, either by a publisher, or by a public who simply won't give any credence to a game that doesn't have a stated release date.

Take a look around the games landscape. Of games which have been released by publishers, many have been released in a condition which you would expect a beta to be in, and in some they are closer to alpha. Why? Publishers generally insist on devs sticking to the release date regardless of the state of the game, and most are simply not finished. They are still in alpha or beta, but have been forced to release as it is. For indie devs, there isn't a publisher forcing a strict release date, so the date slips.

In both cases, the devs get bashed mercilessly, and in my mind completely unfairly. Given how often it happens, I'm amazed people haven't yet considered that perhaps the issue isn't lazy or time-management-challenged devs. People are apparently happy to think the entire software industry consists of such people, instead of there being an alternative explanation.

I am confident that at the time Redigit announced the release date of the update, any required coding for it was completely finished, and perhaps the entire update is. Coding aside, you can reasonably estimate the time it takes to create art assets for instance.

 

You do realize that the PC update for Terraria, which Redigit claims will be out Oct. 1st, will be 1 year and 7 months behind schedule of the promised update. Redigit swore he would develop a final update before going on hiatus but he didn't. Yes, the the update he promised was more of a final bug fix and the one he will release is much more, but he left the community hanging for over 12 months before coming back to say he was going to work on the update, which has already taken him 7 months to complete.

The point is not to start a Terraria / Starbound flamewar, but to point out that your argument is invalid.

CF has been quite open and transparent with a lot of things including some they shouldn't be and that is why you and others continually roast them for it. While I will admit that CF has painted themselves into a corner over certain statements and actions, nothing we do or say will change that. The only thing you can do to make a difference is ask for a refund in the proper forum; otherwise, just let it go...

You already got your new release estimate, more transparency, at i49. Beta in 2013, release 2014.

 

but i didn't say that i went on an AAA game company, to be honest the company that i went was made of a crew of the same size present at starbound. I normally defend the devs because i already saw a company with a close experience with coding working. The game is too big for such a small crew, and yeah, i do think it's taking too long to be released, but i wont complain about that, just because the game is taking long to be released it doesn't mean that it never will. And yes, people have the rights to complain, but sometimes i think the community here crosses the line a bit, and no, you wasn't rude at all.

 

It's been quite long since me and many friends pre-ordered the game. We thought the beta would come out just a few weeks after the pre-ordering process, but I guess we were wrong, huh? The thing is, many of those friends are already asking for refunds because they believe they've paid for something they won't be getting on the set date (which is 2013, FAQ says it will be 2013, and some other places too). What if more people do that? From what I've seen so far, the game is pretty much playable to a BETA, and BETA means "for testing". It's been so much time already, my hype is fading away. I really thought I would be able to play at least the beta before GTA V, but I see it won't be happening...


+ Maybe the devs are excited with development and such that they simply forgot about beta.

 

Sorry if I'm not clear, I did not mention big studios or anything of that size.
You are absolutely right, it is not easy to code, and I have to say starbound looks hella amazing, however I don't think the community asking for updates/solid "real" beta release date is crossing the line, after all there is a "standard" of this kind of game development if you know what I mean.

If the team is well organized and communicating well, daily updates should be easy as pie, "no time/busy" just isn't a valid excuse. Timelines are being pushed back again and again, I can understand the devs want to create a perfect game, therefore feature creeping is a valid excuse(I also like that) in my opinion, but where is the promised 14th roadmap updates(yea, around 14th, but not around 14th next month).

I apologize for rambling on and on about this, and any grammar/spelling issues present in this reply, I am just too hungry to resist the fantastic smell of food downstairs.

 

You made some clear points and i'd like to address each seperately instead of one giant chunk.

You do see what's being caused by doing it this way though. Publishers know that just leaving a game up in the air with no tell of when it could be out seems unprofessional. Because it is. So they force a release date and also make sure they stick by it.

And here is where CF has the benefit of being their own publisher. They can set the date for themselves. The thing they all need to understand that i feel they really don't is that post release is not a dirty word. They could have done the coding for the core things, then taken the time for the addon things. Then when time is ticking away say "Okay, this feature is really awesome but it's gunna have to make it post release". And not NEARLY as many people will be upset at this.

And here is where real transparency comes in handy. Not the "transparency and openness" that CF has right now. Daily updates which amount to patch notes on a game we can't play is not being transparent. Admitting when something goes wrong. Giving an explanation as to why the estimated dates were missed. Answering actual well thought out questions rather than ones that are easy to troll.. That is being open. PR departments seem to be completely oblivious to this, but being open leads to more people being understanding. It's a shocking thing, but it's the truth. And the devs are getting bashed so "unfairly" because they fail to deliver on each and every front they try to say, and all without a peep. Self imposed estimations that pass with silence. A roadmap that starts growing mold. The Ask us anything thread that gets ignored for excessively long periods. The implication that preorders will speed development. All this and not a word on what's left to do. I'm sorry, but besides passing the 2013 deadline without a word, the only thing CF could possibly do to make us think they're any less professional is releasing a video of Tiy surrounded by 800k worth of hookers and them all snorting 1 mil worth of coke.