Feedback What's the point of Teleporters when I can use flags?

Kind of embarrasing... since ive logged over 80 hours in the stable build and around 40 in the unstable...

But I had no idea flags had that functionality, I assumed that since there were teleporters, flags were just for decoration. So I never made one...

I also recentlt discovered that the little magnifying glass or the n key (default) was how people were getting their character to talk about what they were around. I thought the pc just said stuff as they encountered new things just by being near them...

The more you know huh?

 

What sort of mod is frackin universe and is it good?

 

Very good. Probably one of the best SB mods out there.

It adds a LOT of world variety, a LOT of new weapons, and armor. It's all about scientific research, there's lots of new materials, crafting machines, quest lines, and there's even a rather cool mission with it's own boss.

Some of the content is rather difficult if you're not properly geared, and the vanilla nanosuits do not work in FU planets (Chromatic Worlds, for example, will kill you with radiation even if you have the radiation nanosuit from the vanilla quests. You need armor that makes you radiation proof).

Some of the crafting machines require power to use, and there are power generators and batteries (finally, a reason to actually use wiring in SB!) and fuel is used for more than just your ship. It highly encourages you to build a whole laboratory filled with stuff like a chem lab, and even gene research (to make new plants!), and stuff like extractors (dump dirt and rocks into these and get useful materials back). You make computer components, and lots of other stuff like centrifuges, and even a console that allows you to buy a lot of materials.

It's awesome!

EDIT: Here's a screenshot of my lab:

I'm also using the Avali and Felins mod as you can see. Nearly every single piece of "furniture" in this screenshot is functional in some way. There's a table, on the bottom floor and a switch on the wall... but everything else is functional, either crafting machines, storage lockers, batteries (the 6 objects on the modern platforms in the bottom room), and resource converters (like the black one hanging off the ceiling underneath the wiring station).

 

Kool, does that all work on the nightly?

 

I would highly doubt it. Usually any difference in the build makes any mod incompatible.

And nightly is highly volatile as far as stability goes as it changes day to day.

But that (those) mods sound amazing. Been trying to wait for 1.0 but I might have to try those out before.

 

The mod's author keeps track of Nightly, but no, that mod is NOT designed for Nightly.

Highly suggest you try it if you want some stable SB experience if you're tired of crashes, and unplayable stuff, invincible mobs, etc.

 

@Xylia:

As amazing as Frackin Universe is, for the purposes of this debate, I'm focusing solely on how balanced Flags and Teleporters are for vanilla Starbound only. As such, I don't care if it unbalances other mods, including Frackin Universe. If someone finds that this kind of change imbalances their favorite mods, including the mods' authors themselves, then they can take steps to rebalance Flags and Teleporters in their own favor, such as adjusting crafting requirements, like, say, making Flags cost less Plant Fibre to make, or making Teleporters more affordable by reducing Pixel Costs, by making them movable, and/or by making Teleporter Cores more common to name a few.

 

I was speaking about Vanilla Starbound.

There's literally no damage done by having Teleporters and Flags both. Flagging a planet for fast-travel once you've been there already isn't anything game-breaking, and Teleporters still have their use. My earlier comment of "Use which one you wanna use" still stands, even without FU.

However, many changes proposed by people in this thread is a huge case of "trying to fix something that ain't broke".

It works fine the way it is. Trying to "fix" it by your standards of "balance" removes options for players because of a problem you perceive the game to have is not good game design and it only hurts players who like having said options for little to no gain for everybody else.

 

Right. This is not a problem. At all. It is at WORST a minor redundancy, and not even much of one. They're Flags Plus. The teleporters cost a bit more for some extra functionality AND extra aesthetic value.

Remember aesthetic choices? One of the fundamental ideas this game was built on? Which is why there's a metric shit-ton of different tables and chairs and block types and decor items that don't serve all that much of a technical purpose but are there so players can customize the looks of their builds to their liking? Which is why you have seven different races who all function basically the same, among other options?

I just don't get this kind of reductive thinking at all when it comes to this game. Its wealth of visual options is absolutely one of its principle selling points.

 

And some of those teleporters look pretty sweet when placed in a lab or something like that.

Also, Avali flags look awesome.

 

I always found flags useful for marking down spots to get mission items, or towns that sold stuff I might want to pick up at a later time.

And yes, flags are super useful for FU. The amount of added content from that mod is staggering, but basically extends Starbound out about 4-5 times more to do.

I second the Avali flags looking awesome. Makes me wish the other races could craft flags from the other races, if you "learn" them.

 

Actually, it's not good design to have items that overlap each other so strongly. Flags arguably make teleporters completely useless, which is a problem since I remember CF talking about the reason teleporters cost so much is not because of their aesthetic, but because of their functionality.

That said, I guess I could just mod out flags if it made things too easy.

 

"Arguably" does not mean "does". "Arguably" the sky is a dome made of yogurt. It's not. But you can argue it.

Flags do not make teleporters "completely useless". At all. They wouldn't be completely useless even if they did the exact same things, which they don't, because THEY STILL SERVE THEIR PRIMARY FUNCTION.

This is not bad design on any level outside of really reductive pedantic thinking that obliterates much of the actual appeal of the game, at which point you might as well, oh, eliminate every chair in the game but one. I mean, they all do the same thing, so what's the point of having them? Or Vanity Armors? Or changing character colors or stances? Aren't all swords functionally the same? Why should they have different graphics?

 

I guess we better get rid of all guns except for one type, because hey... why do we need pistols, machine pistols, machine guns, when they all do basically the same thing?

Why do we need axes, swords, and hammers when they all do the same thing? We should just get rid of them all except for 2H swords. And why do we have 1H daggers and 1H swords? Don't they do basically the same thing too?

Where do we stop with this mentality?

 

What you just stated is a poor argument, as was the need to mention how useful Teleporters and Flags currently are for a mod like Frackin Universe. Let's focus strictly on the Teleporters vs Flags debate, for vanilla Starbound, and not attempt to get off track here!

Besides, even though this should be a topic for another thread, I'll just add that, even though quick weapons like daggers and assault rifles may deal more damage per second than hammers or axes, or sniper rifles or rocket launchers, I've found quite a lot of value for weapons other than the ones with high rate-of-fire. A high damage-per-shot weapon, like a hammer, sniper rifle, or rocket launcher, is quite good for hit-and-run style fighting, taking potshots at enemies, and then, in the unlikely event that they survive, moving back into cover before the enemy has a chance to bring its far higher damage-per-second to bear.

 

Straw man.

Different chairs are important because of the aesthetic. There is almost no other reason to have a chair. Your argument would be more akin to pushing for one flag type or one teleporter type and not teleporters vs flags. I don't care though. I'll just mod it out myself if it ends up being too easy.

Daggers, swords, etc. all have differences. Daggers are fast, swords are longer range, hammers are slow, etc.

Let's give the teleporter and flag some differences too, so they're more align with daggers, swords, etc.

 

I've stated that I was fine not using flags as my personal solution. I don't feel like my suggestion removes functionality, rather expands it by separating the purpose between two objects some as there may be a need in one direction that is unfulfilled. I don't think anyone is arguing that flags should be removed.

Perception is everything. I've argued that I don't use flags because I don't like cluttered lists. That is an actual problem as I perceive it. You perceive things differently. It clearly doesn't bother you. Because I perceive a problem you don't doesn't make the problem unimportant.

This doesn't correlate with your hyperbole weapon example, actually I think weapons could more reflect diversity than what you were suggesting. They do all serve a purpose of killing your enemy, but they do so in a variety if of ways, especially after the work they've done recently. Some weapons are better than others in certain situations, and player preference also comes into play. A shotgun and a sniper rifle work the same, but have different applications. One may even switch between the two as the situation changes. That doesn't minimize one over another.

 

Daggers = Low damage, faster swing
Flags = Cheaper, but can't teleport FROM.

Swords = Higher damage, slower swing.
Teleporters = More expensive, but can teleport FROM.

They are different already.

It correlates perfectly fine. All weapons kill the enemy. Some hit fast and light, others hit slow and hard.

When you want a fast-travel location, you can either use a cheap and easy to get flag, but you pay a cost: you can't teleport from that location. If you spend more, you can use a teleporter that DOES allow teleporting from.

Just like if you pick up a sword, you get harder but slower hits. But, if you pick up a dagger, you get faster but weaker hits.

 

That's like 1 second of difference. Cheap travel should have more drawbacks. It's like comparing your starter sword to a fire tier sword.

I'd still use flags if I could only teleport to specific locations on a planet while in orbit above it. I have a hard time justifying the use of teleporters though.

 

Some people value time heavily and some people use weaker computers and it's far more than a "1 second difference".

For me, it's 10-15 seconds and a 50% FPS drop for another 10 seconds.

It's annoying enough that I use teleporters everyplace I intend to build so that I do not have to go to my ship to get to a teleporter.

EDIT: And as @M_Sipher said above: Aesthetics. I don't want a stupid flag waving in my base. I want a sweet looking teleporter that matches the building I build specifically for it. With some of the blocks found in the FU mod, I might even trick out the background walls near it, make it look like it has metal conduits running to it and everything, so that it'll look way cooler than a stupid flag.

I'm thinking, I dunno, maybe a new room to the left of the vanilla machines perhaps... with some of those awesome metal pipes running to it, one of those techy-looking teleporters... it'd look pretty sweet.