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WIP SunDrop Village (A Collaborative Effort)

Discussion in 'Mods' started by Androxilogin, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Androxilogin

    Androxilogin Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Anyone interested in a collaborative town mod? I've started a few things, such as the "Outlet Valley Mall", I'm just losing steam because there is nothing to build on outside of this. What I have in mind is a separate town, maybe some new npcs for this new area, some stores, etc. I have a few stores in mind and unique items to purchase. Just wondering if anyone would be interested in such an endeavor.
     
      Puffjiggly, Minakie and tegobash like this.
    • Mr.Mudkipss

      Mr.Mudkipss Starship Captain

      ooo! I would be interested in helping!! :0
       
      • TenkoKuugen

        TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

        That sounds like a lot more work than just making maps
        I don't find making maps actually that difficult, just a tad tedious and I am more about functionality than aesthetic when it comes to maps, too.
        I repurposed Tedgo's maps into a forest clearing, hills connecting to a wilderland map that connects to a separate skull cave entrance (and a one-way ticket from the desert to said wilderland map if you walk back the street)
        I also made the desert a whole lot bigger in case I want to expand upon the desert with ALL.
        I was planning on just releasing that soon because I stopped giving a shit about permissions.
        But honestly, I just don't see where to add maps without completely ignoring the "worldmap" so to speak.
        What's your plan there? Going through the mountains? Going through the wilderness to the east of town? Going across the ocean with a boat? You gotta get out of the standard overworld map confines somehow since there is only so much space you can have in there.
        I make my own tilesheets all the time so that is not an issue, but I haven't actually made new tiles since I am just horrid at pixel art.
        I could see going through the desert to the north since there is already a street there (and it should be easy enough to make 'new' tiles by rotating the street tiles)
         
        • Androxilogin

          Androxilogin Subatomic Cosmonaut

          There re afewdifferent entry points I was considering. One would be the road after the desrt or in the reverse direction. Or at the mountain or off the the path to the left above the farm which isn't open by default.
           
            IronZelly likes this.
          • IronZelly

            IronZelly Astral Cartographer

            I always found it weird how the train station in the mountains hadn't been used for travel despite a train constantly passing by. I did also research some of the world building elements in Stardew Valley and one of the item descriptions under hats - the earmuffs, specifically - are "lined with artisanal velvet from Castle Village" -- which implies a village like this exists somewhere in the game's universe. It'd be an interesting location to expand upon, especially if it can be reached by train. Something about the item choice (given how earmuffs are usually reserved for winter) hints that the location might be someplace cold, like further into the mountains, and lucky for modders, an unexplored location is possible to implement on the over world map (and also the train conveniently travels towards it)!

            [​IMG]

            How mysterious!

            Something about a hidden village in the mountains just sounds so exciting! Plus, it would invite a lot of interesting gameplay opportunities. I'm talking seasonal dungeons, exploring castle ruins, maybe include a university for some of the NPCs to visit, more cutscenes/quests/story elements (perhaps including character development for your spouse?), new festivals and items exclusive to the region which you can bring back for your farm, and perhaps a summit area that includes an observatory! Or, I dunno, maybe a cave system where you can harvest crystals and silk worms? I take it that if artisan goods are produced in this region, it's likely a "make your own (or for NPCs) clothing" option will become available. I mean, what's the point of cloth if you can't use it?

            I also think having the village be mostly isolated could be used as a plot point later. Maybe forming relationships with this village would allow upgrades to Pelican Town, and actually give the community center more purpose post-endgame? And once the upgrading process is done, the towns could agglomerate? This way, the economy would improve for both parties, Joja Co would have less control over their regions, tourists become more commonplace, and there would be more to do for the player in the long run. Sandy could even move in! The ideas just write themselves!

            Alternatively, Zuzu City could be opened up, though trying to construct an entire city would be bit of a hassle, especially considering the corporate hierarchy of JojaCo was the reason the farmer character (and Leah) left for Pelican Town in the first place, I imagine it'd be better to discourage the player from visiting. Maybe small parts of it could be shown in temporary maps? Programmed like mini-festivals (but not actually a festival, just an interactive location with shops that demonstrate how you're better off investing in Pelican Town), where you're just stopping by to see how bad it is? I mean, Sam and his band got to visit at one point to perform on stage, and I'm assuming the arena Shane takes you for the sporting event takes place in Zuzu City given how the characters take the bus there. Essentially, if the Castle Village project seems too ambitious, aiming for a smaller community project like just making standard places in Zuzu City for cutscene/storytelling purposes would be your safest bet.

            I imagine expanding on the location would be a good character developing experience too!

            For instance, how would Sebastian feel once he actually got to visit Zuzu City legit and end up unsatisfied by how much of mess everything is (especially on the city's beach), how everything is super expensive (and all about money / thanks Joja), loads of crime is rampant on the street, and so many people (which could trigger his anxiety)? I hated how that character arc was sort of dropped once Sebastian marries you. It'd be nice to officially give him closure, so that when he says "I realize now that living in the city was just a romantic fantasy", it has a lot more weight for the player.
            It also builds character for the player, given how their character's backstory was set in the city, so roleplay elements and dialogue options can be used to help teach Sebastian to traverse the city safely and ultimately let the player "choose the context behind their backstory", so to speak.

            Where does Sam's band go from here? They make one performance, and that's it? What happens when the music goes viral? Are they approached by corporate sellouts who try to milk their service for profit? Leah's return to the city would be fascinating too, cause maybe we'd get more in touch with her past life or her family and learn more about what drove her to get involved with her ex, and what inspired her to move to Pelican Town. Maybe she'd have something insightful to say about the city's art community? Maybe Abigail would want to visit for a video game convention or a carnival at the docks, or Haley (given how she's visited multiple times before) could show you the high life and expand more on her family setup? Emily would probably take you to a night club for a date, Alex to the town's park to compete in a running competition, Shane/Penny could take you to the cinema, or Harvey - to visit a history museum dedicated to planes? The list goes on.

            Likewise, Zuzu City sounds like an appropriate place to host a mall, though if you're aiming for a small-town mini/outlet mall, either the desert or Castle Village could possess that, so it just depends on which place suits your interests the most.

            Personally, I'd be very interested if this project became a reality! Although I'm currently new to the modding process, making assets would be pretty cool (once I'd figure the process of making custom tile-sheets/maps and cut scenes out :notworthy:).
             
              Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
            • TenkoKuugen

              TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

              I think you need to calm down and be a bit less excited because you're totally losing sight of scope and reality. What you're describing would be a monumental effort for CA, never mind a bunch of modders.
              Making new maps is limited in how useful they can be unless you add a SMAPI component. And I for one have really no interest in learning Smapi.
               
              • IronZelly

                IronZelly Astral Cartographer

                That's true, course - it wouldn't be impossible. I think it's a matter of finding those who have a higher experience with SMAPI and taking things a little at a time. Still, I can understand why the scope would be too big, and it would probably overwhelm people to aim for such an ambitious project given how it's not just a matter of making one map mod, but involving sub mods, keeping it regularly updated and compatible with other mods, so it would probably be too much of a hassle. Idealistic, maybe, but if ConcernedApe were to release a DLC pack like that, I'd play it.

                Otherwise, yeah, if we're aiming realistic and you just need a place to put a shopping mall, you don't necessarily have to make a separate town. There's an open area behind Jojamart in town where you could create staircase leading up there for and a spot where you could place a building. Alternatively, you could do something with the already abandoned Jojamart to make it like a little shopping district for the NPCs to set their businesses. I think there's some mods which allow you to work with that kind of feature, but if you're going to be working with shops at all (I mean, that's what malls are for), you need at least some SMAPI to have it run properly, cause as of yet I'm not sure if getting a custom shop to work with just .xnb files alone is enough or even possible. :unsure:
                 
                • TenkoKuugen

                  TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                  The fundamental issue with expanding the game other than just adding more maps for existing gameplay is that the effort is just enormous. New items are doable, as seen by the additional crops mod. New crafting I haven't actually seen.

                  One idea would be to use the base function of the Mill and clone that into something else. Say, put a minecart at the 120th floor of the mine, it takes you to a maze, at the center of the maze is a special <thing that has to be sprited> where you can put in gems to create prismatic shards.
                  Or a separate cave deep inside the an expanded desert where you can use a cloned kitchen (altar) to create existing items but with different recipes. (specific minerals become specific items. Tigereye? Becomes Starfruit seeds. Fire Opal? Becomes Strawberry seeds. Diamond? Becomes 10 coal.
                  Or a forest to the east of the quarry, the "4 Seasons Forest", where you have four seasonal forest maps (easy enough to make with the seasonal sheets and cloning the sheets for all seasons) where you can find seasonal forage around the year but the forest is populated by shadow brutes and shamans. (spawned by SMAPI)

                  All of these use existing game mechanics (mill, kitchen menu, monster spawning and forage spawning) but would still require heavy SMAPI usage but it is definitely far less in scale than what you're suggesting. Personally, I don't really believe adding more shops is a good idea, especially not for items already available, given how easily you can get millions and millions of gold.
                   
                  • Entoarox

                    Entoarox Parsec Taste Tester

                    I am hereby giving my support to aid with the SMAPI side of things in case requirements are beyond what ALL can do. :)
                     
                    • Mr.Mudkipss

                      Mr.Mudkipss Starship Captain

                      this is really exciting :0 maybe we should make a discord or somethin for all the people working on it? So its not in the strange confinements of a thread
                       
                      • TenkoKuugen

                        TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                        What would actually help a lot is if you could provide something like a "general basis of what SMAPI can do and can't do" since a lot of us don't know that and it is difficult to get a handle on it if you don't understand C# or the way the game handles code. By knowing the confines of SMAPI we can actually plan something specific.
                         
                        • Entoarox

                          Entoarox Parsec Taste Tester

                          Within the confines if SMAPI, you cant do *anything*, because SMAPI is not a modding API, but a modloader and event provider.
                          But as it gives us direct access to SDV, we can do quite a lot there, if something can be done or not, is 99% of the time a case of "Can we find a way TO do it" rather then "Is it possible" :p
                           
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                          • TenkoKuugen

                            TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                            I was thinking about making a quicksand maze in the desert. Essentially, there are three components I'd need SMAPI to handle for that. I am just proposing this here and asking you how much work it would be to make this.

                            1) Stamina deduction when stepping into the quick sand(most likely by defining the tile positions in the dll. I could also clone tiles to create a new tile ID and declare that entire tile ID as having that property, depends on what is easier. Cloning a tile since it is supposed to be difficult to tell if it is just dark sand or quick sand) , and detection whether stamina is already empty -> health deduction at half the stamina value then. I can set the tiles with ALLShift in the map editor so I don't need SMAPI to handle the back-to-start warp factor.

                            2) A custom action that when you step on a specific tile you will receive, once a day, an assortment of random items (5 random items, chosen from a pre-defined pool like the traveler cart but some items being just a high quantity instead of being inherently valuable, like 150 wood)

                            3) An internal counter of how many times (and how many times in succession without missing a day) the player has reached the center. This counter would have to be called when rewarding items and if it is a multiplier of 10, the random reward is skipped and a pre-defined reward id awarded instead. A free iridium sprinkler for 10 days in a row, 5 large iridium milk for 10 times total. This would basically go on until the list is exhausted (at which point, every 10th time, the last entry on the list is provided) or reset (by missing a day for the in-a-row reward tier)
                             
                            • Entoarox

                              Entoarox Parsec Taste Tester

                              The quicksand should be easy, I can add a new Back layer tile property that lets you drain stamina easily, the reward would require a separate mod or a new ALL mechanic (Likely the second, I can see a lot of fun uses for generic puzzle tile properties)
                              As to rewards, a puzzle property that acts as a counter combined with on-demand condition-based edits that react to counter values would work wonderfully there :p

                              Edit: Ok, here is my idea for the "Quicksand", A new Back-layer property called "ALLEffects", while the character is on that tile, any effects (Positive or negative) defined by "ALLEffects" are applied to the player (StaminaDrain, HealthDrain, StaminaRegen, HealthRegen, etc.) and you can stack effects simply by having multiple defined (ALLEffects: StaminaDrain HealthDrain)
                               
                                Androxilogin likes this.
                              • TenkoKuugen

                                TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                                I am not exactly an idiot when it comes to modding but you lost me with "puzzle property". Is that what you would just call the property? Like "Warp"? I.e. Type<Action> Value<Puzzle>?
                                How would that back layer tile property work? Would I define every tile that I need to have that property in the manifest for ALL? How would this property interact if the tile already has a property defined in the map, namely ALLShift, or even TouchAction Warp (If that actually works, otherwise I would need to specify like 100+ warps in the manifest if I want to drop the player into a small cavern below the desert)
                                I can see a possible conflict where the warp property would fire before the stamina reducing property fires and thus causing the stamina reduction to not occur since the player is no longer on that tile.

                                What about making the puzzle property call a configurable list of IDs and quantity and then use a standard RNG to determine what it rewards? That would keep the list easy enough to update without having to mess around with too many dll files
                                The same could be used for when the counter value (which could also be just be a configurable number) reaches a designated multiplier, but simply calling the corresponding entry in the fixed rewards list (using my example of 10, if the count reaches 30 and the config specifies multiplies of 10, it would call entry 3 in the fixed reward list, like (355,1,0,366,1,0,407,5,4) (being item ID, quantity and quality)
                                 
                                • Androxilogin

                                  Androxilogin Subatomic Cosmonaut

                                  A Discord channel would be ideal but I wanted to get a pool of ideas together first. I need to get online a little more in the coming days. First we need an outside map and I'm terrible at that sort of thing so if anyone wants to throw together a concept to build on, please do share.
                                   
                                  • TenkoKuugen

                                    TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                                    Not a fan of discord, really.
                                    An outside map? You mean, like a typical wilderness map?
                                     
                                    • Entoarox

                                      Entoarox Parsec Taste Tester

                                      The puzzle properties would be things like "TouchAction/Action: ALLCounter [counterName] [Add/Remove] [number]", and then you could have a optional tile edit that has "ALLCounter:[counterName][=/</>][number]" in its conditions, in this case, it would be used to count how often the player has reached the center that day, and then change the "reward" tile to match
                                      From there, you could do pretty much whatever you want with the counter behavior alone, for the reward again, creating a tile action that allows you to spawn in a set of items or random items from a set could easily be done.

                                      Another action could be something like `ALLRisk [percentage] [action]`, where the [action] would then be a Action or TouchAction that has a [percentage] percent chance of actually firing....

                                      Edit: See https://gist.github.com/Entoarox/260e1d79c65e8fdfdeee7755310d0592 for a more detailed explaination of what I mean
                                       
                                        Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
                                      • TenkoKuugen

                                        TenkoKuugen Starship Captain

                                        I am not making a lot of sense of ALLEffects
                                        Where in that function does it specify numeric value? The way it looks it would be
                                        Type=TouchAction Value=ALLEffects StaminaDrain Slowness as a tile property, but where do I specify how much stamina is lose and how much speed I lose? Maybe effect1, value1, effect2, value2?

                                        With ALLCounter, I have some questions as well
                                        I realized I need some rather complex logic if I want to intercept a tile property rewarding items if a counter is at a multi of X. Basically, after the maze, I would have a small cave with an altar, which upon activation rolls ALLDrop from the pre-defined list of items. This would also set ALLCount FinishMaze to 1 which would in turn make the Altar vanish with a conditional (not even sure how to do that) to avoid repeat activation and ALLCount MazeGoal +1 and store that somewhere as a permanent value to check against. If MazeGoal is 10, 20, 30, etc I would need some logic to skip ALLDrop, make the altar disappear and spawn in a different altar OR just use a ALLDrop2 or something to that degree that would reward specific items with 100% chance.

                                        An alternative way would be to make a second altar in the first place that only spawns MazeGoal counter multipliers and then, upon activation, set the MazeGoal +1 and also set FinishMaze to 1, despawning both altars and making it not a multiplier of MazeGoal anymore.

                                        This sounds like a pretty complex setup actually and I am entirely unsure how to do most of it. The background tiles seem easy enough if the format is easy (effect1, value1, effect2, value2, effect 3, value3, etc) and would have some neat applications but the ALLCounter is a bit confusing and so is ALLDrop. Does the ALLDrop function require you to have the entire list inside the function? With a list as big as the travel cart, imagine how big that would be.
                                         
                                        • Entoarox

                                          Entoarox Parsec Taste Tester

                                          I've updated the Puzzle Actions suggestion file, see if the changes I have made make things easier to understand, I also added a few new actions based around your questions :)
                                           

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