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Still waiting for the hunger bar to come back, what happened?

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by WingedSpear, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. WingedSpear

    WingedSpear Big Damn Hero

    The thing about the enemys and boss's is, they are too easy, and after the combat improvement they are way more easy, so with out the Survival theres not much to do, fight easy enemys is not one option, crafting is also easy, you can just enjoy the adventure and still, after a while you will already learn every single dungeon in the game, so at the end there will be no surprise, like, the only real goal theres in the game is collect all the cosmetic items in the chests, i see that as a way more interesting acchievement instead of beating one easy boss.
     
  2. drachasor

    drachasor Void-Bound Voyager

    But we've established that hunger was not a remotely difficult or interesting mechanic. It just meant you grew a little food and ate it. That's it. And I think attempts to limit food would seem very, very arbitrary in a sci-fi setting (unless it was about feeding entire villages/planets/whatever).

    Enemies can be changed easily enough to be harder. Balancing hunger so it is a meaningful long-term survival mechanic? I am not seeing how it can be done. I did state a way earlier to make it an early mechanic for starvation and a later mechanic for food buff duration. That could work, I think.

    Cold and heat by themselves are not very interesting mechanics unless there are multiple things that play off them in complex ways. If it is just "wear X piece(s) of gear" then that's not very interesting. Nor is it much different from the current increasing difficulty of monsters combined with tech to survive.

    Again, I am not against survival mechanics. But I'd rather have them be interesting (many methods and techniques to solve the problem) and at least optionally involve building things.
     
    STCW262 likes this.
  3. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Oxygen Tank

    You didn't even really need to grow it, as I got sooooo many Alien Steaks from ordinary combat there was no way I'd run out. Plus thanks to shops, you could just buy foods in mass quantities.

    I survived on simple bread for a long time, then stumbled onto Oculemon Stew's healing and way-stronger hunger killing. Then it was a simple matter of buying a couple hundred of each ingredient and BAM. Never starve again unless I'm AFK and haven't put my character in bed.

    I also wouldn't like this because I want food items you craft to also be placeable as decor items. I want to put a big Roast Dinner on the dining room table, or line shelves with jars of jam.

    Anything that potentially reduces the number of placeable decor items is not a good idea in my book. (I still want modeling dummies to place armor on, and racks to place weapons on...)

    Yeah, both hunger and temp really, REALLY need massive overhauling before they're gonna be anything more than binary egg-timers, and honestly, they have more important things to focus on.
     
    STCW262 and The | Suit like this.
  4. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    As Sipher mentioned one of the biggest issues when having a hunger bar is maintaining a limited supply.
    In games like "The Darkest Dungeon" or "Legend of Grimrock" you spend all your time adventuring you do not have a readily accessible supply of food. Making a hunger bar a feature which needs to be managed.

    In games like Starbound on the other hand you have an excessive quantity of food. Where it simply becomes an annoyance you must deal with. Since it is nearly impossible to ever not have food.
    You can run around with a hunting knife and kill a monster and get alien meat at any time
     
  5. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    This is exactly how I feel about hunger in minecraft... and subsequently Starbound, and all other implementations of needless forms ofhunger in other games.
     
  6. Rissquette

    Rissquette Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Hunger was directly related to farming---and I think the idea was you were supposed to grow your own food, but, personally; I never really used farming in the first place. Sure it was cool, but I all but it took longer than my attention span allowed me to stay focused on it, and I always ended up eating one of the many hundreds of cooked alien meat I had in my inventory.

    Frankly, I'm glad it's gone: it was kind of annoying and always got in the way. It makes idling easier too. Before, I'd AFK in my own server and come back hours later only to find out I had died... several times. Bye bye pixels and hello grinding for more.
     
    The | Suit likes this.
  7. UrsaRus

    UrsaRus Aquatic Astronaut

    I agree. Removing hunger and temperature the game lost some of its appeal. For children, this is a plus. For casual players this is a plus. For hardcore - minus. It would be good to have the opportunity to choose.
     
  8. Akre

    Akre Pangalactic Porcupine

    Yep, it's a pity they got rid of survival elements like cold and hunger.

    The best solution would be to bring them back to the game as a higher difficulty option in char creation menu. Everyone could choose to their liking.
     
  9. Rissquette

    Rissquette Subatomic Cosmonaut

    I think if I wanted a "hardcore" gaming experience, I'd look somewhere other than Starbound to provide me with that experience. Starbound is cartoony by nature.

    Edit: it would be nice to choose actually, however I'm sure the devs removing these features means they plan on implementing them into the game further down the line in a higher difficulty setting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  10. Ekoto

    Ekoto Big Damn Hero

    Cartoony cant be hard?
    never played it but wasnt super meat boy like uber hard? that game totes wasnt cartoony
     
  11. WingedSpear

    WingedSpear Big Damn Hero

    Terraria is a pretty hard game, it does not have hunger, but the difficulty of each monster was already hard, and each monster was different, they all were creative, here in Starbound the monsters only change their ''skin'' and colors, but they act the same. What i am trying to say is, unless they replace all the common monsters with something more creative and hard, they should add the interesting (for many of us, not all) difficulty of the Hunger and Heat system, they just have to add it as one option, so the kids and casual players can enjoy the game easily.

    I just feel that, with out these things, this game is just one simplified and way easier version of Terraria with better graphics, because there you just had to learn spells, kill monsters/boss's and craft better gear.
     
  12. Ekoto

    Ekoto Big Damn Hero

    Side note my post was being sarcastic. super meat boy is VERY cartoony. (i was basically saying because it looks cartoony doesnt mean it cant be hard)(im explaining this because if i remember correctly english isnt your first language(?))

    unfortunately i dont think starbound can really have specifically creative monsters since its all about exploring randomly generated things. however weve seen bosses which were not randomly generated and poptops might be somewhere in the coding?.....
    monster challenge wise... ive been playing unsable... definately noticed a change in monsters.... they can get to you... they will find you... and they SEEM to have a higher spawn rate? (been mostly underground making a city thingy cus of teleporters) they are so far posing way more of a threat... and my character is End game tier.
    i think so far the changes they are making in the unstable/nightlys are greatly improving the game. plus... starbound exploration is harder than terrarias now.... since logging off will save your place.... (you wont beam back to your ship anymore) its so easy to get lost underground. but getting lost if kinda fun....
     
  13. Rissquette

    Rissquette Subatomic Cosmonaut

    Comparing Super Meat Boy to Starbound is kinda... eh. SMB is a rage game with insane difficulty and was made like that purposefully. I think Starbound was meant to be a more casual game than that. Although, you're right. Super Meat Boy is cartoony.

    Also OP is right. Starbound's ironically lack of creative and interesting enemies is one of my main gripes with the game. The other being weapons don't feel as if they have any weight behind them and aren't as satisfying. In Terraria, everything felt really good: the monsters had interesting design and had appropriate attack, idle and death sounds and animations along with a body that wouldn't disappear instantly on death which makes them seem like they're part of a more alive and vibrant world, the biomes were very interesting and each had their own unique enemies that felt is if the did indeed belong there, the weapons were more well designed, had amazing sounds, felt powerful, weighted and we're crafted with in More interesting ways, bosses were were just flat out better in every way: had their own unique battle music, better fight progression and more satisfying rewards. Terraria had A LOT of appeal without survival mechanics. When Terraria 1.2 came out, I'd logged about 50 hours into Starbound. After the update, I actually returned to Terraria and logged another 150+ hours into it. That's how much they added in that update, and still they're coming out with Terraria 1.3. Since then, I haven't really played much Starbound at all. Maybe 10 hours more.

    I think what I'm trying to say is that I expected Starbound to be Terraria's spiritual successor and it didn't end up happening exactly the way I'd hoped. I also expected it to be superior to Terraria in every way... well... it's my opinion that in its current state, it is definitely not. Who knows, maybe it will be superior when it finally comes out, but at this development pace, Terraria Otherworld will come out before it does.
     
    vanella and (deleted member) like this.
  14. Ekoto

    Ekoto Big Damn Hero

    Starbound is meant to be casual/hardcore *cough hardcore mode* it just isnt finished, if you think ima have my first death delete my character hell no!
    this entire game just isnt finished yet...
    as for the enemies thing... i just remembered about the first starbound teaser which said the game would allow you to catalog enemies and they would have interesting background information about the species, drops, exc. this would be almost impossible with how monsters work now.... since they are randomly generated.... unless we wrote the entries when we found them....(some people would hate doing that. perhaps it could be optional?i for one love cataloging and naming things...) however since apex are sciency people... and like to do science and experiments ... perhaps there could be numerous invasive species that were spread out over the galaxy by various apex scientists.. seems like a reasonable explanation for how the same creature would be found on multiple planets. now we just needa tell chucklefish to make it so!
     
    Flake13 likes this.
  15. drachasor

    drachasor Void-Bound Voyager

    Except they didn't really make the game more difficult. Wearing different clothes for survival is the equivalent to having better armor and upping monster stats. Even if you needed to do something now in then to add warmth or the like was just a bit of busywork. Hunger was entirely busywork since everyone had tons and tons of food.

    People acting like these adding difficulty to the game are blowing things out of proportion. These systems were removed because they didn't add significantly to the game and will have to get reworked if they are to be added back in. And again, I don't see how food can ever become an issue for one person in the game. I've said that before and no one has proposed a way to make hunger meaningful -- except me, but that wasn't making it about survival really but instead about making it work to manage food buff duration.

    I would personally rather them work on making worlds have more complicated ecosystems with more varied and unpredictable enemies. I'd like to see enemy AI more varied, including enemies that have hive-like characteristics among other variations. I'd rather see a larger variety of useful buildings and devices to find and interesting things in chests. I'd rather see computer-controlled factions that can move from world to world too and change things, and give the player an opportunity to ally, war, or make their own group(s). Make enough random variables in how enemies work, how enemies interact with each other, what plantlife and worlds can do and be like, and what sapient creatures can do on and between worlds and you'll have a much more interesting and dangerous experience playing.

    And I'd rather see various options available to spawn and manage universes. So you could have a bunch of different universes and choose different settings for them.

    IMHO, there's a lot more potential in that sort of thing and expanding building to cover complicated devices (using wiring and unique bits) than hunger/cold/heat. But I could certainly see how heat and cold could be worked into such systems -- hunger...well, like I said before I don't see how that could become a real issue unless you are feeding large groups of NPCs or the like.
     
    XRiZUX likes this.
  16. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    I want to see temperature back, not because it was really challnging, but because I like the atmosphere it added to the game. Beaming down to a moon and starting to freeze was fun for me. It let me know that, hey, this place is in space! Also it used to be cold the higher up you went on a planet which implying altitude.

    The feature was a great atmospheric effect for the game, IMO.

    Hunger can go burn in hell for all I care.
     
  17. Akre

    Akre Pangalactic Porcupine

    Warmth and cold added tactical stuff and survival feel. You could try hunting animals with a bow to get enough leather for obtaining snow infantry armor, which could be tricky on higher levels when this armor didn't offer such protection against monster damage. Or go with your other armor and try to deal with cold by using a lot of heat resources like campfire. Besides, you could plan on avoiding night trips when it got even colder. Quite a few survival and tactical issues, which were replaced by a dull and automatic change of suits, without any real choice or feel of coping with hostile environment.

    Moon was a really hazardous biome requiring specific backpack which wasn't easy to craft, but giving a chance to get more ores. Now it's just a dull space, without any risk, used only for tedious search for fuel.

    Hunger wasn't tactical, but it wasn't tedious either as farming was easy and it did add the flavor of survival and self-sufficiency to the game, where you had the feeling of getting prepared for a bigger trip by preparing enough food.
     
    lamacraft likes this.
  18. DJFlare84

    DJFlare84 Spaceman Spiff

    I did have a suggestion about this...
     
  19. Oberic

    Oberic Spaceman Spiff

    I would love to be able to place food as decoration. All those jars of juice and bowls of weird stuff would be great decorations.
    There's a mod for that right now, until it's in vanilla. :p
     
  20. 11clock

    11clock Big Damn Hero

    Eww. Minecraft introducing its hunger system in late beta was one of the main reasons why I stopped playing that game. (Alongside my favorite server shutting down.)

    IRL, you actually feel the effects of hunger and the delicious impacts of eating food.

    In video games they tend to just be timers that you need to keep watch over, and I usually find them tedious to keep full in games. I see hunger systems as unnecessary nuisance which just kill the sense of immersion for me, and can absolutely ruin my experience as a whole at times.

    I don't think that hunger systems really work in video games unless the game we are speaking of is a "pure" survival game (such as Don't Starve). Starbound is a sandbox RPG in space.
     

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