Small universes

Discussion in 'Other' started by Awwkaw, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Noc

    Noc Guest

    If you open a savestate in a video game and watch a mob move around, reloading that state (CAUSING IT TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE) could make it move differently. - You must not understand games then. Games that follow that rule(And not all do) rely on a random number generator to randomize the mobs movement, so they're less predictable. The generators are hidden and hard to predict, that does not mean they wouldn't produce the same result each time if under the same circumstances twice.
     
    §hifter likes this.
  2. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    That's just it: if they EVER CAN produce a different result under the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES, my point is proven. And they do.

    I'm getting the feeling you two are thinking of this as though we were replaying the exact same moment in time and expecting a different result. If you were to replay a moment in time over and over, as though on a DVD, no, of course nothing would change. That isn't what i'm saying.
    I'm saying the same action can have many results, in simplest terms. Which is truth.
     
  3. Noc

    Noc Guest

    Not under the same circumstances, that's what you're not understanding. A random number generator provides the different circumstance for the mob, that's the point of including it in the source code, so the mob will act differently while under the "same" circumstances.
     
    §hifter likes this.
  4. Tea Mate

    Tea Mate Existential Complex

    I hope he will finally understand, but i don't actually believe it.
    A thing known as "random" doesn't really exist in physics. Things can be made practically impossible to predict, but only because of the amount of data and time required. Technically, you can predict anything that is "random" as long as you know how it works and what are the conditions. Because the same electric impulse can't go anywhere else if it has one path set for it. There is no other possibility. That's how physics works. If you throw a ball exactly 90 degrees into the air, there is only one possibility where it will land. Of course, if you throw it 90°01'01" degrees into the air under the same conditions, it will land elsewhere. But then there will already be a difference. The same with everything else.

    I can't understand what you don't understand.
     
  5. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    The random number generator is getting a different result. In the same circumstances.
    Then tell me how we can predict exactly what a person will do.
    Then tell me why it is we can't predict EXACTLY where a dual pendulum will go, which one would think would be easy.
    I understand what you're saying, but from what I understand, the human brain is a far cry from normal/predictable, like the pendulum. Response to stimuli is not 100% exactly predictable, like the dual pendulum.

    God damnit i'm getting tired of this.
     
  6. Tea Mate

    Tea Mate Existential Complex

    The circumstances are not the same. They might be different by a tiny amount, but they are different. They are only seemingly "the same" to one who doesn't understand how the thing works. THERE IS NO TRUE RANDOM IN THE UNIVERSE. So you can actually predict anything.
     
    Noc likes this.
  7. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    PROVE there is no true random. Don't just blindly say there isn't.
     
  8. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    Okay, ignore my past few arguments and listen to this.
    From what I understand, you guys are saying that if it can be predicted, it isn't random.
    If we can't predict it, what is it?
    A lot is unpredictable because the location and motion of a particle are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Without knowing both of these, the prediction is impossible to make.
     
  9. Couldn't you just pick 5 planets and enable PvP on each?
     
  10. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    Nope, then people will be agle to go to other planets, and it's not for arenas, but for maps and mapmakers
     
  11. I'm not sure I understand what you mean, then.
     
  12. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    i mean to make a "universe/ world/ whatever you want to call it" that consists of x planets and xplanets only, to make a pvp gamemode, that alows fore interplanetarity pvp and a way of making interplanetary map development, i want to make it so you can only travel to x planets and no more than x planets got it? :rofl:
     
  13. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    You can only go to those certain planets, if you try to leave you get blocked. This prevents you from getting items outside the area.
     
    Awwkaw likes this.
  14. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    exactly :rofl:

    Edit: and then again, yes, but also a restricted area, that, in a file, can be transfered as a map, this would make it posible to giver other players your maps, and mapmakers the posibility to make better adventure maps.
     
  15. Tea Mate

    Tea Mate Existential Complex

    A lot is PRACTICALLY unpredictable. Theoretically, if you have the right data you can still predict it. That's what I've been saying all the time. And what is theoretically predictable can't happen any other way. So that means there is only one possibility how each particle might move in the universe.
    Whether you are talking quantum physics(the prediction of things in which is impossible almost completely due to the complexity of things) or simple physics(where we more or less can predict things relatively accurately), there are of course things that we don't know and thus practically can't predict, but the world works under strict laws of physics, otherwise we couldn't really predict anything.
     
    Noc likes this.
  16. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    True. But so long as the acquiring the needed data is mutually exclusive, predicting exactly is impossible. If you attempt to get the position of a particle, you change the motion. If you attempt to get the motion, the position is changing. Thus the data you need is impossible to get.
    Now, while in theory it is possible, we can't get the data needed in the first place and thus it is impossible.


    tl;dr: If it COULD be predicted, then sure, it'll happen the same way every time. But it cannot be, no matter how far ahead in technology we could get. It's that simple.
     
    Noc likes this.
  17. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    you can never predict anythin, only the chance of something happening, but you are, theretticly able to do so, the problem is, that with phisichs you can only know the chance of the electron being at a given place at a given time, so only a chance, but a chance for everything, ofcourrse you'd have to make analysis of avery atom in the universe, then how they'd react, and then again you'd only have a chance, so no you can, theoreticly speaking, predict nothing, only the chance, this is qantum physichs, and i don't understand it, wich means that i've not gone mad (someone (bohr or einsteis (i guess on bhor since einstein hated quantom physichs( yes he did, he made another system)) said that if you think you've understood quantom physichs you've gone mad (not in precise words)) so no, you can never predict anything, you can only predict the chance...
     
  18. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    Well, aren't you doing a little bit of "predicting" here? didn't you just say thats impossible? jk

    i agree with you (mostly) so whats above is a joke,


    I'd like this thread to go back on topic, could you move this discusion to off topic things?
     
  19. Relinies

    Relinies King Homestuck III

    There isn't much else to discuss, that's on topic. But fair enough.
     
  20. Awwkaw

    Awwkaw Starship Captain

    while i agree, some people, who don't read the thread still asks me the same qustions :rofl:
     

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