I have huge respect for the developers, but i have to agree with this review

Discussion in 'W:R General Discussion' started by Filipfonky, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. d2king10

    d2king10 Guest

    That is one of our biggest complaints about our game Wanderlust: Rebirth (WR). It becomes a really solid game after you have your character developed a bit, and then start diving into Epic mode with your friends. You really start to notice how each enemy is unique and requires different fighting techniques to overcome. Sadly, this is completely lost in normal mode, because over the year(s) since release we have had to dumb down normal mode constantly to make it more inviting to new players.

    However, I do not believe the fault is entirely in the 'casual' players hands, but in the basic design choices for WR. WR was designed to have a chapter-to-chapter setup. This allows for easy to pick up and put down gameplay, as well as not feeling like you are forced to sit for an hour before you can take a break. This also allowed for us to make each chapter have a unique feel and easily present new mechanics/enemies to the players. But, I think this also creates a very heavy bottleneck in the difficulty and path that players must travel before they enjoy the game. I believe WR really starts to shine around chapters 8 normal -> epic modes, when you have some okay gear and some cool new skills. Obviously we cannot start the player characters out with badass spells, so the idea is that if you are good early on you can get the cooler stuff faster (100% chapters), but this just makes it easier for skilled players (who enjoy difficult games and are good at them) to fall in love with WR, but makes it harder for players that are not as skilled at games take longer to get to the meat and potatoes. So they basically progress until they hit one of the harder, early chapters (2, 3, 5), and earn a consistent 50% and quit because the game is still hard for them, and they have not really earned much in terms of skills and items.

    This is a system we LOVED in WR, but it is also a system we knew we wanted to change for Wanderlust: Adventures (WA). We loved the idea of players who are more skilled at games to progress at a faster rate, but we also wanted to get rid of the ability for 'unskilled' players to get stuck in their level progress (not being able to get higher % on earlier chapters because they are not as skilled). This is why we created the Style system in WA. The style system is build on top of a "traditional" RPG level bar system, where you earn X amount of EXP to level up. However, when you kill enemies, and depending on HOW you kill them, you earn badges/awards (same as in WR) to give the total EXP and Tokens earned during that fight multipliers. We believe this allows skilled players to level faster, but removes the bottle neck for players that are not as skilled. They no longer have to trudge through hard chapters over and over to try and get a higher %, now they simply have to explore the world and hunt down enemies they find easier to defeat and kill them; the better they get the faster they level, but they are never withheld from learning new abilities based on their skill.

    In closing, I do feel WR has several design flaws at its core that do not appeal to the more casual gamer market. I think WR stands on its own in the online RPG market, and there really isn't any other online RPGs out there that are like WR. We tried to present new things to a genre that is rather saturated with lots of games sharing the same ol' mechanics, and I think that is why WR is such a niche title. We believe WA will have a greater appeal to the gamer market, while still being unlike any other online RPG out there, even unlike WR.
     
      ErekoseDM and DeadlyLuvdisc like this.
    • DeadlyLuvdisc

      DeadlyLuvdisc Oxygen Tank

      I'm not really sure why players can't just start out with awesome stuff (Fighting games just give you all of the character's abilities right out of the box), but of course it is a convention of the RPG genre. I really just have this sort of vendetta against the word "obviously" when used in game design.

      The Style system sounds like a really clever way to solve some of the difficulties you've had with casual players. : )

      You're right, there really isn't anything else quite like it. That's why I loved most about it. I'm excited for WA.
       
        d2king10 likes this.
      • d2king10

        d2king10 Guest

        You are right, I should have used a different word. You can start the player out with all the abilities and make the game great (we actually have some ideas for games that involve this). I was talking in terms of how WR/WA is set up. I do not believe a system like that would fit in the scope of the Wanderlust series; 'obviously' was a bad choice of wordage.
         
        • DeadlyLuvdisc

          DeadlyLuvdisc Oxygen Tank

          Wow, you're a really easy going person. I know I can nitpick about wordage to an irritating degree at times.

          Just imagine how my coworker reacted when I explained to her "actually, an opinion can be wrong, since it is a personal belief or judgement about objective things. It isn't the same as a preference or value, which are more subjective." LOL good times. EDIT: This was also just after informing her that "I am not often wrong", which she responded to by saying, "That's just your opinion," which is another phrase that bothers me a lot.
           
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          • FreshSheet

            FreshSheet Pangalactic Porcupine

            The part about the percentage and CP gain was what I was referring to in my statement that it only takes one nice person to make a huge difference in the game. If you get one good player who is nice and will get you help in completing the levels, the game is amazingly fun for just anyone.
             
            • adamjsams

              adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

              Honestly I bought this game to support Starbound and have yet too play it, but reading about what you guys have said, I think it's time too actually launch it.
               
                Leth likes this.
              • Leth

                Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                What d2king said above is pretty much how we feel at this point; Wanderlust: Rebirth was designed for skill-based gameplay and as a result, didn't appeal to the more casual role-player (and some reviewers, apparently). Wanderlust: Rebirth is more of a "hack-n-slash" (like Castle Crashers or Gauntlet) than an "RPG" (like Zelda or Secret of Mana). If you go in expecting action-oriented gameplay, you're probably going to have a blast. Otherwise, you may struggle and be disappointed...
                • I know of one review that was never published because the guys playing through the game couldn't beat it! :eek:
                • On the flip-side, we've had reviews published about our game that did not properly represent the entire game:
                  • For instance, the review in the OP makes no mention of (1) PvP, (2) The Crawl, (3) Epic Mode and (4) How each of the four classes play different from one another; they're missing information regarding a huge portion of the content in W:R!
                  • I'm not saying that people can't figure out if they dislike a game from playing the first 25% of what it has to offer, but I certainly take exception to a "professional review" being published that is misrepresenting - or completely missing mention of - 75% of the game's content.
                With all that said, we're completely aware of how Rebirth was disappointing to traditional role-players and explorer-types of gamers, and we are working really hard to make Wanderlust: Adventures that Action Adventure game that everyone was wishing for when they first saw Wanderlust: Rebirth. :cool:
                 
                • adamjsams

                  adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

                  So, Like I said I was going to do, I started the game up. At first I hated it until the moment I plugged in the ole' trusty gamepad. And since that moment I've been having a blast with it!
                   
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                  • DeadlyLuvdisc

                    DeadlyLuvdisc Oxygen Tank

                    Yeah, I loved Gauntlet when I was younger. Amazing game. That might be part of why I enjoyed WR. The expectations of players definitely plays into part of the problem. And it is totally true about some of the reviews being unfair. Like the review from the OP, it really gives the impression that the reviewer played through the game once using a fighter, and started a new game with an elementalist to get an idea of how the classes were different, but really didn't spend much time on it.

                    This is actually kinda why I like how fighting games give you everything out of the box, you don't have to unlock abilities, so you can taste the flavor of every character and their uniqueness right away. Of course, the downside is that fighting games have a very steep learning curve for competitive play, and it obviously does not fit with the style of an adventure game or RPG that has conventions of gradual progression.

                    So yeah, the review was pretty low quality. Of course, it's an indie game and their job entails reviewing tons of games, so how much time can you expect them to take? The reviewer might not have realized it, but he was just experiencing something that a lot of people do-- They just didn't get to the good parts yet. If he had done a better review, his score still wouldn't have been 10/10 or anything, but at least he'd be able to inform interested players that they should focus on certain game modes, or go for completing each chapter.

                    Exactly what I'm talking about! The Elementalist feels like it was made for a gamepad. When the reviewer complains about the controls, it seems obvious to me.
                     
                      adamjsams likes this.
                    • Leth

                      Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                      Oh don't get me wrong. We've received very positive reviews that we thought were poor as well - for their lack of information.

                      Seems like a lot of reviews get caught up in entertaining the reader rather than informing the reader.
                       
                        adamjsams likes this.
                      • DeadlyLuvdisc

                        DeadlyLuvdisc Oxygen Tank

                        I see so many reviews of "worst movies ever", that are about halfway decent movies. Like the reviewer has to be as extreme as possible, possibly to the point where you can't tell if they're drunk or just being a jerk. Does that really ensure they have an audience? Is it supposed to be funny?

                        "This movie makes me want to puke, then drown in my own puke, and go to hell because it is better than this movie." <- Is this necessary?
                         
                          Leth and adamjsams like this.
                        • adamjsams

                          adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

                          My question about the game now is why does everything cost so damn much?
                           
                          • Leth

                            Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                            HAHA! It used to cost a lot more!

                            Sell your extra junk. It'll help.
                             
                            • FreshSheet

                              FreshSheet Pangalactic Porcupine

                              The cost is there because honestly, once you get better at the game 6k is zilch. It also gives you incentive to USE what you have and choose wisely because there won't just be something to replace it in like a half hour of gameplay.
                              That's because the game was originally intended for console :)
                              correct me if i'm wrong leth
                               
                              • adamjsams

                                adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

                                I just have trouble finding anyone to play with. All the games that are live are all private. And I'm sure no one wants to start out with a guy still on the first playthrough.
                                 
                                • FreshSheet

                                  FreshSheet Pangalactic Porcupine

                                  You on right now? I'll join a game with you. I play with new players all the time :)
                                   
                                  • adamjsams

                                    adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

                                    If you're on steam just give me an add Soul Banana
                                     
                                    • adamjsams

                                      adamjsams Aquatic Astronaut

                                      Had a great time playing with fresh sheets!
                                       
                                        Suika Ibuki likes this.
                                      • TrinityMoon

                                        TrinityMoon Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                        I will honestly say wanderlust was not my favorite game, but by no means do i agree with that review either. It was a fun game in it's own right, but due to lagging and sometimes one of our party members would disappear when loading to the new screen got excessively annoying was the main reason we stopped. I still play it on occasion when i desire it, but due to work my gaming has practically come to a halt.

                                        This is the first i have heard about a new one though. Any eta or information on it that you can link or are willing to give?
                                         
                                        • FreshSheet

                                          FreshSheet Pangalactic Porcupine

                                          All info on the new Wanderlust can be found here. For the eta, hopes of the end of summer, around that time.
                                           

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