Modding Discussion Avali 1.0 Reboot Discussion

Discussion in 'Starbound Modding' started by RyuujinZERO, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Tiy's Beard

    ... Don't you mean a quadruped?
     
  2. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    Go read Awkward Zombie.
     
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  3. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Tiy's Beard

    I'm surprised you didn't suggest the name "Peace Walker" While you were at it.

    All joking aside, Ryuu did mention Metal Gear Rex as an inspiration for Avali mechs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  4. Scival

    Scival Oxygen Tank

    Well, from the exact same paragraph that talks about mechs, we know they use neural augs to pilot vehicles.
     
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  5. TheOnlyRen

    TheOnlyRen Phantasmal Quasar

    Good news, everyone!

    Avali Objects+ is now complete!

    The good news keeps on coming!

    Instead of being its own separate mod, Fevix has graciously agreed to roll my work into the base Triage mod! Soon all the Avali fans will have their own custom texts for examining every Vanilla Starbound object in the game! Minus a few edge cases like tiered crafting stations (You'll react to a replicator like it's a basic forge, still). But otherwise everything's done!

    Send Accolades! And have a happy Steam Summer Sale!
     
  6. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    Well done. That's a pretty monumental undertaking. Should future feedback be directed to you here, or to the triage team in the triage thread?
     
  7. TheOnlyRen

    TheOnlyRen Phantasmal Quasar

    The Triage thread would likely be the most appropriate place for feedback!
     
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  8. Ser-matticus

    Ser-matticus Big Damn Hero

  9. Scival

    Scival Oxygen Tank

    Yeah, only one of those look avali-ish.
    Yeah, I think those sprites are the reason why Ryuujin really insisted that he didn't want ANY help with rebooting the avali mod.
     
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  10. Ser-matticus

    Ser-matticus Big Damn Hero

    the sprites are designed to be tiered like the vannilla stations, we have no idea how stone furnace an avali would make even look like, so i had to take some creative liberties
     
  11. Scival

    Scival Oxygen Tank

  12. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    So, had a big discussion with a friend about what avali would breathe. Originally canon stated hydrogen, but this has since been changed. However I think it's still a decent bet.

    Basically, to be as big and complex as they are, avali need lots of energy in their cells. Earthly life-forms get this energy through anaerobic respiration, using a process called an electron transport chain to push electrons through little cellular machines that work like miniature hydroelectric dams. But in order to keep working, you need to have a constant stream of electrons coming in and going out. A pileup of used electrons will grind the process to a halt. You can get electrons by bringing in molecules, but how do you get rid of the electrons when they're done? You need a molecule to pick them up and carry them away. For us, it's oxygen. We breathe oxygen to provide a way to get rid of excess electrons, and that's the main reason we die without oxygen. However, theoretically any molecule that's electronegative could do this--nitrogen, chlorine, fluorine, hydrogen, etc. We can't use any of those gasses because we don't have a way to transport those gasses where they need to be--our blood carries glucose, which binds specifically to oxygen and a few other molecules.

    If avali have a way to pick up and carry other gasses the way we carry oxygen, they could in theory breathe any of the gasses I mentioned. As far as I know, none of those gasses are present on Avalon in any large quantity except hydrogen and nitrogen. Nitrogen is unlikely because it forms into N2, which isn't very reactive so it would be hard to evolve a molecule to carry it. Hydrogen, however, is very reactive (which is why it explodes), so hydrogen seems like a good guess as to what avali would breathe. Hyrdogen isn't as electronegative as oxygen, so I don't think it would be as effective as oxygen (and it couldn't carry as many electrons), but I think it would work.

    This also gives you a convenient way for avali to breathe in Earth-like environments: strip the hydrogen from water vapor.
     
  13. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Tiy's Beard

    Though there is one problem with using hydrogen as a breathing gas; a planet that has the gravity necessary to hold onto significant quantities of hydrogen would be massive. As Avalon is a fairly low gravity world, it's hard to believe it would have any gaseous hydrogen in its atmosphere. Methane would be a more reasonable source of hydrogen, with four rather than two hydrogen atoms and a carbon atom to weigh it down.
     
  14. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    Good point. And that might be useful, because I think there are a lot more natural processes that produce methane than natural processes than produce atmospheric hydrogen. I'm thinking this would also mean that avali could breathe both methane and straight hydrogen?
     
  15. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Tiy's Beard

    Indeed, and they might even use pure hydrogen rather than methane for shipboard atmospheres. It helps that a ship should have no shortage of hydrogen, since it makes a great reaction mass for any nuclear rocket or 'plasma' engine. You could use water, ammonia or methane, but they're less efficient.
     
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  16. Scival

    Scival Oxygen Tank

    Well, the avali oven scan text already said they breathe methane, so someone already came to this conclusion before you.
    So, huh, that was productive.
     
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  17. Roland Weiss

    Roland Weiss Tiy's Beard

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, kappa.
     
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  18. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    Well there's a difference between saying "whatevs, I'll make the avali breathe methane" and "based on this science, avali should breathe methane." Maybe it doesn't make any difference for most people, but for my purposes I like things to make as least some semblance of scientific sense.

    Plus, some of us just have fun working out speculative biology.
     
  19. Scival

    Scival Oxygen Tank

    Isn't the avali race's whole shtick speculative biology? I don't think Ryuujin just randomly decided "Oh, they breathe methane. Fuck logic entirely, I just like the sound of that."
     
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  20. YellowDemonHurlr

    YellowDemonHurlr Ketchup Robot

    It used to be their shtick. Ryuujin's been backing off on the "granular details," probably because I've seen at least one person tear into him about the improbability of avali biology. Not just saying "this doesn't make sense," but getting nasty about it. Encountering sarcasm and hostility can really put a damper on something you otherwise enjoy.

    Anyway, avali occupy an uncomfortable space where they're alien enough to cause problems for casual roleplayers, but not alien enough to satisfy people who get in deep into speculative biology. He seems to be relying more on suspension of disbelief now, which is an okay approach. Works for Star Trek, Star Wars, and basically any other popular sci-fi franchise. And seeing as their selling point is "fluffy space raptors," that's probably where they belong. They still make more sense than a lot of other races (much more sense than the Starbound stock races), but here are enough holes that the species requires a certain degree of hand waving.

    And I don't think it was Ryuujin who picked methane to breathe. If I recall correctly, he basically said that "a friend did some science for me and tells me that hydrogen would work," and later figured out that it didn't work the way his friend thought it did and slashed that bit of canon without replacing it. Granular details, etc. I might be wrong, though, a lot has changed with the avali.
     
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