Anyone Like This Game?

Discussion in 'W:R General Discussion' started by HedgeFlanders, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. GravityFlux

    GravityFlux Guest

    Why on Earth does this Person (Hasaosan) continue to run around on the forum?
    Now, he has a right to put up his views, unsound as they maybe, but he has a responsibility to not abuse that right!
    And his grammar and use of the English language, oh god.
    I can't even begin to describe how much he has abused the English Language
    tl;dr: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMERRRRRRRRRR!
     
    • DawnSeeker

      DawnSeeker Orbital Explorer

      Half a year is a long time :) .. *cough* no life..

      Anyway if I was to put myself in his shoes.. What is this thievery his talking about anyway?
      Is there an in-game cash shop or something? ( I haven't got the opportunity to play this game yet )
       
      • GravityFlux

        GravityFlux Guest

        I have, on a friends computer
        As far as I saw, there didn't seem to be.
        He probably thinks that the devs have ripped him off, by selling him a bad game.
        I wonder, is he trolling, or does he really believe that?
         
        • Evil2992

          Evil2992 Space Hobo

          I buy this game already ! It fun , but hard to find someone played it !
           
          • Hansuke

            Hansuke Subatomic Cosmonaut

            I own the game myself. It was ok for the first few hours. I'll be honest haven't touched it since. Also, DawnSeeker, read the rules. I reported you for that comment. Very uncalled for.
             
              Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
            • Tomwa

              Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

              Leth if I may I'd like to offer my two cents (Being the faceless lurker I am).

              A long while ago I bought a game called "Project Zomboid" through desura, now I hate desura with a fiery flaming passion (Greater than any sun) but I loved the game and those who made it. While it is certainly not thievery to not give out a steam key to those who already bought the game (after all they already knew what they were purchasing) I would say that there is a large hole in your argument. You cannot compare a distribution system such as steam and Desura to an entire platform change such as PC/PS3. The time it takes to port between consoles (and make an equal quality port) is extreme as they are entirely different systems (especially with regards to the PS3 and it's cell processor.) the time to add steam support is extremely minimal in comparison.

              For many indie companies Desura is alluring because it lacks the barrier of entry that steam has, this however means that gamers can't buy it through their distribution platform of choice meaning supporting the game in it's early stages can be like drawing the short straw when distribution through that platform becomes possible.

              Never played wanderlust though.
               
                Leth likes this.
              • Leth

                Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                Here are some more arguments for you guys. =P

                The Community Argument:
                Fostering a community where gamers expect indie developers to volunteer extra copies of their work to early-adopters is damaging to the indie game development industry and therefore is a mentality that ought to be frowned-upon if not completely eliminated.

                The Legal/Financial Argument:
                (1) Yeti Trunk never promised to award Steam keys to early [non-Steam] adopters, so it's pointless to assert that a non-Steam purchaser of Wanderlust: Rebirth should get a Steam key, let alone to assert the idea that they 'paid' for it. (2) At the time of our launch on Desura (and later GamersGate) we had already been denied - twice - for Steam consideration; it would have been wrong for us to 'lure' people into buying our game with promises of future Steam keys when the odds were that it was never going to happen.

                The Logical Argument:
                Here's an argument built from a logical tautology on the subject:
                • If I bought Wanderlust: Rebirth before it was launched on Steam, then...
                • Either the Steam version of Wanderlust: Rebirth is a different game than what I bought, or it's the same game.
                  • If it's a different game, then I am not entitled to a Steam key - i.e. I don't expect Bungie to give me a key for Halo 2 if I bought Halo: CE a year prior.
                  • If it's the same game, then I am not entitled to a Steam key, because I already have the game - I only paid for one copy of the same game, so why should I expect a second?
                 
                • Tomwa

                  Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                  That argument is in no way logical specifically:
                  If I purchase any game I should be allowed to make as many copies of it as I deem necessary if I want one copy on my laptop, on my work pc, and one my personal pc then all are valid so long as I am the one using them. If it is the same game then you're simply denying them their choice of distributor. If it is the same then it costs you nothing to duplicate but it can cost the consumer the time and effort of dealing with an unwanted platform all because they chose to support you.

                  Not an invalid choice, mind you if the steam version DID cost time and money to implement and it would be costly to do so then you have the right to recoup those losses. Though I certainly would prefer to pay a nominal "Upgrade" fee than have to rebuy the entirety of the game when most of the bytes remain the same.
                   
                  • Leth

                    Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                    We never deny you that. Steam does.
                     
                    • Tomwa

                      Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                      Not sure what you mean by that, can you elaborate?
                       
                      • Leth

                        Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                        You can put a copy of our game anywherr you like, provided you have a valid Steam or Reflect account. But when it comes to purchasing a game outside of Steam and wanting Steam's features, well that's just silly.

                        The only recourse is to either buy the game (again) on Steam or demand a free key from the developer. But at that point you have TWO licenses, which is different than the scenario you posed.

                        In other words, there is a distinct legal difference from having multiple copies from multiple licenses. If someone paid us for a single license and we provided it, then why are they then asserting that they deserve another? WE are not the ones who chose to keep you from enjoying your license thru Steam; trust me.
                         
                          Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
                        • Tomwa

                          Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                          I cannot speak for W:R as I do not own it/haven't played it but most games I've played on steam lacked any special steam features what so ever. In such an instance the code for the game would almost completely identical. It falls to the developer to decide the cost of steam integration and whether or not it's worth it to require a new purchase of the game I'd just assume that nearly all the code would be identical. Having never worked personally on a steam game however I cannot verify that (Though you would know better).

                          Again I'm not certain of the development cost of steam integration though I imagine it would be relatively easily offset from customers in the now extended audience.
                           
                          • Leth

                            Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                            Well if you look at where this argument started, we were accused of "theft". Which is a bit different than "they didn't give me a free key when they launched on Steam."

                            The vast majority of people who owned our game at the time of our Steam launch either got the game for free (we gave out hundreds of copies) or got the game in the Indiefort bundle (and thus for about $1). We gave out HUNDREDS of copies on indiedb, to the point where about 60% of our userbase had not payed anything for the game. The sales thru the Indiefort Bundle pushed the percentage of people who had paid less than $2.00 for our game well past 80%.

                            All-the-while I continued to update the game while working two jobs to make ends meet.

                            I think - particularly in our case - it is extremely unfair to assert that we didn't support our early adopters.

                            And to answer your question about "Steam-version porting"; it was very very difficult and ended up costing us over $10,000 USD, which was about 4x more than what I had made from game sales prior to Steam Launch.
                             
                              Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
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                            • Tomwa

                              Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                              I already stated that there was no theft mentioned, what brought me into the argument was the comparison of platform porting to a change in distribution services.

                              In this case it would be most certainly unfair to make that assertion, it seems like the players were the ones making off like bandits if anyone was.

                              [/quote]
                              This really surprises me though I guess it really would depend on what kind of integration you put into the game (Which I wouldn't know), what little I've read on it has stated it's relatively easy to get the game running with steam though I imagine that doesn't include any real form of integration.

                              Edit: Just bought a 4-pack on steam it's ridiculously cheap.
                               
                              • Leth

                                Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                                It's on sale!

                                Well that's the thing about game development; there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than people are generally aware of. =P

                                In the end, and with a smidge of irony, we are ourselves the persons best suited to judge the morality and practicality of the business decisions we've made, since there is a ton of information surrounding the situation that gamers - for example the people participating in this thread - are simply not privy to. That's not even considering the information publically available (like how many copies we gave away and/or sold for less than half price) that has been ignored.

                                And btw THANK YOU. <3
                                 
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                                • Tomwa

                                  Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                  Quite, that's why I had my "It falls to the developer" and "not an invalid choice" statements. I am having a spot of odd luck regarding the game though. When it's only $2.74 it's almost crazy to not buy it and with having played Starbound with my nephews to death there's a need for a new multiplayer game. It was the original reason I came to the thread after all.
                                   
                                  • Leth

                                    Leth Risk of Rain & Wanderlust

                                    $2.47, right?

                                    If I may offer some advice, pay special attention to what the "Tips" screens say at the start of each chapter. Wanderlust: Rebirth requires players to earn awards in order to advance. It's not typical at all - button mashing might get you through but you'll be stuck with a low score.

                                    Hope you enjoy it!
                                     
                                    • Tomwa

                                      Tomwa Scruffy Nerf-Herder

                                      Ah you're right $2.47 I got my numbers backwards. I'll have to replay the tutorial first ha, I seem to have botched my spells up XP
                                      Thanks for the forewarning regarding the score.
                                       
                                      • Black ★ Rock Shooter

                                        Black ★ Rock Shooter Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

                                        On the original topic, which probably isn't relevant anymore:
                                        I don't play W:R anymore, but it's still one of my favorite games. I don't feel that the singleplayer experience is quite up to par with what I like, but the multiplayer more than made up for that.

                                        I only played Elementalist to any serious degree (I'm the Elementalist in this thread). The game doesn't look all that impressive, but it plays well. Aside from some weird bugs with the menus, the controls worked pretty well. It's a bit slow until you get your skills upgraded, but it really picks up once you get a good number of skill points in your pocket. Playing Hard/Epic campaign and Crawl is where I really had the most fun. Those are where you'll find a good challenge for high-level characters and equipment.

                                        I really liked the rune system for the Elementalist - I learned the combinations and could pull any spell I needed off within a second or two. This was really handy for dodging well-telegraphed attacks during the final boss fight. I heard this was changed, though.

                                        Overall, W:R is a really fun game to play with friends, and I'd probaby recommend it expressly for that purpose. Try to get some friends to play with you.
                                         
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                                        • Soulcrifice

                                          Soulcrifice Big Damn Hero

                                          It was $2... You paid maybe $10 when it was first released, why all the fuss over $10? Allow me to preface that question by mentioning I do earn my own money. You've been flaming these Dev's for not supplying you with a free copy of their game? When they never told you in the first place they were going to be on Steam? You really need to evaluate why you're so angry about this, because it's not the Dev's fault.. At the end of the day they've supplied you with a more than finished title, which is what you purchased from the beginning. Be thankful you got what you paid for, some games don't even get finished, or are "finished" but end up with more bugs than game-play. WR for me, has given my friends and I hours and hours of entertainment (especially when played right with the achievements) and we're not finished with it. PVP and all the other game modes add much more to this title that I feel like I owe the Dev's more money than the $2 I spent on it.

                                          Sorry mate, I just don't see your argument as valid.

                                          Cheers to the Dev's for such a great game.
                                           
                                            Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2013

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