2018 release for Multiplayer?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pyrofish, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. Jerev

    Jerev Pangalactic Porcupine

    @Pyrofish thanks for the old greenlight pages. I never saw them and it was interesting to read. I can understand why you and quite possibly many others would have expected a fast multiplayer. But you should take notice of CA's development updates on the official site:

    http://stardewvalley.net/dev-update-32/
    Here he informs people in december 2015 that he will focus on singleplayer and add multiplayer after the singleplayer release.

    http://stardewvalley.net/post-launch-progress-update-version-1-1-and-more/
    After release in may 2016 he admits that he needs help developing the game further which includes work on multiplayer.

    In my opinion CA as a single-man-developer miscalculated the time and working hours needed for multiplayer and other features. His late cancelling of multiplayer for the launch version must have been disappointing for some people, but it was still announced pre release. After the release he accepted help from his publisher in order to accomplish his goals. As we know now, the game wasn't really programmed "multiplayer ready". My theory is, that CA didn't have much experience programming multiplayer games and always thought he could easily add it later.

    I get why you are disappointed, but you seem to forget that CA is just one developer without a team and without a controlling publisher. He made miscalculations, but he communicated his problems. Maybe he should've done it earlier.
     
    • Pyrofish

      Pyrofish Starship Captain

      He communicated them quite a bit late, absolutely, which is fine. But it starts to become a little less fine when 2 years after release we'll finally be getting it.

      I know he made the posts saying he'll focus on singleplayer, and then saying he needs helps. He just took quite some time, and abruptly went from "I'm finalizing it" to this.
      You kind of expect, when he says he's finalizing it, for it to be almost done, and working well. Not for it to have to be delayed, then restarted by another company.
       
      • edupunk

        edupunk Seal Broken

        The problem with the world today is that most people want things NOW, and imho thats a lame way of thinking. I used to think like that, but as I grew older and wiser I realized that it takes time to do anything, especially if you plan on doing that "anything" right. I mean, isnt it ironic that the message behind this game is to get away from that way of thinking and enjoy whats right in front of you, and here you are throwing a tantrum because you don't feel like multiplayer is coming along as fast as you'd like. Now think about that for a moment, let it sink in, the person who created this heavily nuanced masterpiece about getting away from the everyday bs is supposed to put out things/multiplayer according to your clock.

        Concerned ape could turn around tomorrow and say that multiplayer has been shelved and I would understand, he's earned that imho. He has continued to update this game that cost 15 bucks to buy and is already a masterpiece as it stands, as a gamer in a world where the majority of devs are greedy POS I really admire his dedication.
         
        • Pyrofish

          Pyrofish Starship Captain

          You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, and making a lot of assumptions.

          Where am I throwing a tantrum?
          "as fast as you'd like"
          Waiting 2 years for something that was already in production for two years is a little mental, I think a fair amount of people could agree with me there.

          Considering the game was greenlit on the promise of multiplayer, I think it'd be a bad idea to drop it.
           
          • Jerev

            Jerev Pangalactic Porcupine

            Maybe our different opinions originate from the point of time when we noticed the game. In another thread someone asked "when did you start playing?" and the answer for many people a little or a lot after release. So there's a bunch of people, myself included, who saw only a singleplayer game first. The promise of multiplayer was nice and I would have gladly played it earlier, but I bought SV because of the singleplayer.
            I think there's nothing I could further add to this topic. Hopefully you don't get too worked up over this and that you can still enjoy the game.
             
            • Pyrofish

              Pyrofish Starship Captain

              I've enjoyed the game a lot, actually. I've played for quite a while, but unfortunately, my enjoyment of the game doesn't make what he's done ok.
               
              • Rauchschwalbe

                Rauchschwalbe Cosmic Narwhal

                I think it is completely okay to be a bit disappointed about the late release of multiplayer and it is also okay to have no problem at all with it and not maybe wanting it. We should accept each others opinion as long as it isn't an insult.

                I am also a bit sad about it, but mainly because it was announced for this summer I think and we don't get to hear a lot about developement. I miss the regular updates.
                 
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                • nevyn21

                  nevyn21 Cosmic Narwhal

                  The sales numbers aren't really related to anything, I think it would just be interesting data to see.
                   
                  • blind3rdeye

                    blind3rdeye Big Damn Hero

                    It seems to me that multiplayer has been 'on the way' for an awfully long time. With the length of time involved, I think it was misleading to advertise it so. I for one was expecting multiplayer at the start of this year, and until the most recent announcement I was thinking the multiplayer might end up being permanent vapourware.

                    I'm glad to see the updated timeline and reassurance that multiplayer is coming, but I do think the PR has a been a bit lacking on the topic.
                     
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                    • edupunk

                      edupunk Seal Broken

                      Just reread some of your post, sure looks like you're throwing a tantrum imho (not trying to offend you or anything, just what I've seen). Assumptions? You make quite a few here, but since you've made them then I guess theres nothing wrong with your assumptions, correct? Like according to you it shouldn't take 2 years to develop and implement multiplayer...question: who are you and how knowledgeable are you on the subject of implementing multiplayer and or creating a game? For you to make such assumptions would indicate to me that you are quite intimate with game development. Waiting 2 years is nothing in the grand scheme of things, AAA games with huge teams behind them get scrapped in that time frame all the time. Thats with lots of money and plenty of personnel, and yet it still happens till this day.

                      Do you honestly think concerned ape doesn't want to release multiplayer? Like is he and or the team holding multiplayer back even though its done? A lot goes into multi player, it changes the dynamics of the game and thus can break it at any given point. I take it you're not an avid gamer, promises are often broken by devs, perhaps that was or is not their intent but it happens quite often. It also happens in real life, for instance: I should go see my grandmother more, I want to, we talk about it when I call her, but then life happens and my priorities shift....am I sorry I didn't get to visit her, SURE! Fwiw my initial intent was to go visit her, but things just didn't work out that way for whatever reason. That is a very true example. I think concerned ape could not foresee how big this game would become, how many would fall in love with it, and in doing this he made an error in putting out information that more experienced devs would never say and or promise early on. So many things can change in a couple of years time, people/ideas evolve...Not trying to argue or anything like that but take a look at the gaming world, these kind of things happen a lot more often than id like.

                      One last question: Why would it be a bad idea to drop multiplayer? Do you think that would take away from the the game? Its not a deal breaker for me personally, although I still would like it implemented at some point. And if I offended you that was not my intent.
                       
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                      • ChaosAzeroth

                        ChaosAzeroth Existential Complex

                        It'd be a bad idea to drop multiplayer because it's been promised so much that it'd look bad and use up a lot of faith and trust.
                        I mean I'm not even going to use it, but if it didn't come out at all I'd feel like they'd lied as there's been not even a hint it might not come out. Quite the contrary they keep talking about it coming out.

                        Then again I'm still upset at Natsume promising PC and Wii U Seeds of Memories when it was a stupid idea to promise Wii U stuff, and annoyed at every bringing up how the Wii U tanked when it was LONG after people were talking about the tanked Wii U they promised it. I don't do well with sudden changes, and it annoys me to be lied to. Which promising something repeatedly and then not delivering instead of going we may or may not do this, or to drop with no word is lying in my book.

                        Is it malicious? No. Does it deserve attacks? Nope. But does it deserve scrutiny and can people express being unhappy? I think that's fair honestly.

                        I feel like AAA games get scrapped because a big problem with them is they tend to have over-bloated budgets and the economy is crap. Games prices haven't apparently inflated the same rate as anything else, and many people find the idea of spending $40-$60 on something to be expensive or even a pipe dream. Not that I'm saying the 2 years is crazy or not, not touching that personally. But I've heard a lot of things about AAA that have concerned me as the way they often do isn't sustainable in the slightest.
                         
                        • edupunk

                          edupunk Seal Broken

                          Disclaimer: Im playing devils advocate.

                          Promised is akin to deserve, both lead to entitlement, just my opinion. Those are words I do not like to use, I prefer I'll try. So, if multiplayer adversely affects the game and cant be implemented due to...lets say technical reasons or it just not working right (it could be a number of reasons) does that mean that the dev lied? You would lose faith that quickly? would you buy the next concerned ape project based on your experience with SV, or would you totally pass it just cause of the "lie"? Fwiw I also hate being lied to.

                          People should voice their opinions, I believe in that but gamers are extremely fickle. Its not just AAA games, there are games on all levels that get scrapped not only because of budgets and the economy but for technical reasons as well amongst other things, look at scale bound recently. Sometimes things are great on paper but cannot be delivered the way the creator originally intended, for some reason it just doesn't work out....maybe it does nothing for the game.

                          It would be interesting to find out how many man hours have gone into multiplayer development for this game, as well as the cost. I doubt it'll ever be revealed, but for a game that cost less than what I spend on breakfast and lunch in the city, the work thats gone into this game is quite impressive.

                          Great convo!
                          Regards
                           
                          • ChaosAzeroth

                            ChaosAzeroth Existential Complex

                            Replying to the Devil's Advocate here

                            I'm not saying I would or wouldn't, just that it makes me nervous. I've seen this stuff so much I'm starting to feel like don't believe it until you see it. Don't ever get excited for anything. Which is an exhausting way to live, but it's what happens eventually.

                            I'm saying they need to be more careful how they present, they shouldn't market things that are that difficult as a sure thing. I'm saying if people don't learn not to it can easily become a pattern of over reaching. That it can easily become a full blown thing and something that will use up good will and trust.

                            I've seen too many things promised and never delivered on overall, and all I wish was that the people would not present it as absolute fact. I've noticed there's a lot more forgiveness for non-AAA developers being honest about something being a goal instead of acting like it's a sure thing.

                            At the end of they day, I'd have preferred they not bring up multiplayer at all. That was mistake #1 IMHO. Seriously, it's not the not delivering it's the way the thing's been handled that's the biggest issue I have. I'm just so tired of it overall.

                            Also IMHO entitled gets thrown around so much that that part of your post has no meaning to me. I've seen people called entitled for every little thing, every expectation ((even the most justified)), every bit of hope or opinion. You can say it's entitled, that's you're POV and I respect that. But honestly that word has lost it's meaning for the most part on the internet.

                            The more people are discouraged from calmly talking about how they feel with these things the less people are going to get invested in these things, and the more some companies are going to see that throwing out any old feature as fact is okay because no one can get upset if they don't deliver. I'm NOT saying CA would do this, though honestly IDK enough about Chucklefish one way or the other. I am saying this is an overall problem I see in a LOT of things.

                            I know you said people should be able to give their opinions, but in the very same sentence said gamers are fickle. Which is generally used to discredit. I feel like you're calm and level headed here, and your post is fine don't get me wrong, but nothing about it particularly makes me feel like expressing an opinion is welcome at all.

                            I could give a great example of how people being actively discouraged leads to issues but it's an online game.

                            ((My cat just clicked and ate a chunk of my start ahhh))
                             
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                            • Rauchschwalbe

                              Rauchschwalbe Cosmic Narwhal

                              Just to take your example: Your grandmother would still be very sad that you're breaking your promise. They often say they aren't, but of course they are. It's the same in my family and probably in 90% of the families.
                              Has your grandma the right to be sad? Of course.
                              Was it a fault to break a promise (or to make one if you not know 100% you can fulfill it)? Yes.
                              Are you a miserable and evil person because of that? No, because life can happen.

                              And to me it would be a bad thing, if multiplayer was dropped. Yes, it could happen, but I would be a bit disappointed about it. As long as I don't insult anybody, I think it is ok.

                              And personally I don't care if 10 or 100 other game developers do it too. Wrong things don't get right because a lot of people do it. That would mean, that stealing is ok, because a lot of people do it. Is it ok because of that? Of course not.


                              And just before you ask: Yes, I have been working in a software developement company, which developed simulation systems for aircrafts for example (which ist basically not that different from a game). I coordinated developement with my project manager.
                               
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                              • Pyrofish

                                Pyrofish Starship Captain

                                How is this a tantrum? Please, explain.
                                If it took 2-4 years to release multiplayer for a game, I severely doubt we'd have them coming out at such a constant rate. Look at most any other game, it does not take 2-4 years.
                                I have basic knowledge on video game development, since I worked on some games for a while, I can earnestly say, this is mental.
                                I don't recall saying I don't think he does.
                                I really don't give a shit about your grandmother, sorry.
                                Yes, they happen often. He should of said it if he dropped it then, no? But he didn't, so we can only assume he hasn't dropped it.
                                Considering how many people have waited for it, and expected it since it's been advertised, I can only imagine there'd be quite the uproar, to drop the feature people have been waiting 4 years for.
                                are you saying if you expect a promise to be fulfilled you're entitled..?
                                I don't know what friends you have, but it's completely normal and expected for a promise to be fulfilled.

                                It was already being worked on before the game came out, so I can imagine it'd get more work, once money rolled in.
                                 
                                • sunlite

                                  sunlite Pangalactic Porcupine

                                  Can you please stop using the term 'mental,' it's quite disrespectful to those living with a mental health condition. I understand, you're very upset about having to wait until 2018 for multiplayer, but can you please use a term a little more civil, one without potential to offend someone?
                                   
                                    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
                                  • Pyrofish

                                    Pyrofish Starship Captain

                                    If someone is offended by that I'd adore to be them. Having so little to care or worry about that the word "mental" bothers you.

                                    forgot about this for a while, so super late response
                                     
                                    • Iris Blanche

                                      Iris Blanche Pudding Paradox Forum Moderator

                                      Since this discussion is going to nowhere i am locking this topic.

                                      Regards
                                      Iris Blanche
                                       
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