1. If you're looking for help-related things (for example, the key rebinding tutorial), please check the FAQ and Q&A forum! A lot of the stickies from this forum have been moved there to clean up space.
    Dismiss Notice

I think it's great that people complain and whine about Starbound..

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by Arkitech, Aug 25, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. nofo

    nofo Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Apologies, I am tired. Fixed it for you. :)
     
  2. I think what Akado was getting at was simply this: We know they've made mistakes, they know they've made mistakes, why bring it up again?

    I personally think they weren't being fraudulent in their advertisement of the game. The road map talked almost purely on mechanics of the game, without much focus on content. Since then they've overhauled the monster gen system a few times, they've implemented much more extensible models for several of the random generation systems, and had a huge focus on using lua to make other aspects extensible. Even the art style has shifted a bit since the original days of the game (see the old "monster a week" posts). You kinda have to try and put yourself in their mindset at the time. While it may seem now that they were aeons away from their goal of finishing the project, at the time they might have thought they were closer than they actually were.

    I know in personal projects of mine, I've severely underestimated the amount of time it would take to complete some things.

    We also live in a wonderful age where everything a person says is captured and stored somewhere. People seem really adept at finding those moments where people screw up what they are trying to say. We can harp on what people have said in the past or we can look forward to the progress they're making. For me it was $120 that's taking a decent time to mature into the game they / I want it to be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  3. nofo

    nofo Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    While I do agree with Akado in the sense that beating a dead horse is pointless, I see on these forums critics of the company being berated for their points of view and it honestly unsettles me that it creates a divide within the community and a lot of people seem more than willing to propagate it.

    This quote started this argument, because I disagreed with it. Just because CF's history is ugly does not mean I should not bring it up on their forums when debating.

    I disagree because if the mechanics and systems are in place and almost complete the content should also be there too correct? But very well, how would you view something like this? Notice the language, "can" "is".
    You'll probably read this and go - "well these systems got scrapped" but that's the worst part of it, if the systems were already implemented and functional why would they scrap it?

    It's a very real possibility, but the discrepancy between what was delivered and what was advertised I feel was so great, that blaming it all on inexperience seems unlikely. So while you may not like the fact some people "beat the dead horse" it will continue until either CF delivers or CF and their "fanbase" stop dismissing their critics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  4. Skarn

    Skarn Existential Complex

    On the other hand, if I put said question back into its context, it becomes pretty obvious that they're referring to their plans for future mechanics that largely haven't been implemented.

    Please keep in mind, there's a difference between advertising a feature and putting it out there looking for feedback before you decide to implement it. This site has been used for the latter a lot of times. At this point we're just splitting hairs over what features the game should or should not have had and at what point in time, and it's ridiculous to think that anyone out there actually thought this game had already implemented all of the hundreds of features they'd briefly talked about, even the crappy ones that only one guy liked.

    Not to mention that taking everything they've ever said about the game as an "advertisement" is just... ugh. "Subject to change" is both a mantra they've repeated, and arguably common sense for a game in development.

    This seems kind of relevant.
     
  5. Conmaan

    Conmaan Master Chief

    Impatience is a trait of assholes, in my honest opinion. So is calling out a developer and the moderation team based on things that have occured in the past and assumptions that have been made of what really went on. I am not saying that you, Starbug, specifically have said that. But I have seen a few posts on this thread that have.

    I was not around when all of this drama occured. Maybe that is why I am still ignorant to a lot of people's apparent distrust of Chucklefish, but because I came late I can also better identify what is happening right now without any predispositions about the community. And from my perspective, everything seems to be going swimmingly.

    At least WAIT to complain until something bad actually happens!

    I re-iterate that developers are people too. They have lives, problems, and emotions. They make mistakes. They have goals in their lives that they wish to achieve. Allow them that breathing room. I understand that a lot of you here just want to speak your peace about how you hate X that happened in the past, but state so and then let it go. The past is the past. Nothing can be changed about it.

    We're all just here to have fun and not be stressed the f*** out over a game that costs roughly the price of a large pizza, if you paid what I did.
     
    Serenity likes this.
  6. nofo

    nofo Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    No it does not. The context is Starbound Q and A from a period when there was little to go on in terms of gameplay footage or anything of the sort. This was the same period where they were trying to ease the community's need for information for the upcoming release. Q and A's like this were literally the only information people had to go on.

    The purpose of a Q and A is to inform people of your current and future plans. It is not to throw out ideas and see if the community responds well.

    Subject to change is all well and good, but when taking pre-orders for an imminent release it is not common sense to assume literally everything you know about the game is subject to change.

    Yes, I am also aware of this gem.

    If starbound left EA now would you be satisfied with your purchase? Do you think that using hours played (even ignoring the bugged launcher) is a good way to justify lack of action?

    Not to mention that what exists now is a tech demo as per his own words which I agree with. Do you feel as though releasing a tech demo as a stand alone game is entirely reasonable?

    If everything is going swimmingly then you have nothing to worry about and no need to be calling a large number of people assholes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  7. So your end goal is to be extremely loud in your dissatisfaction until they give you what you feel they owe you.

    The question remains, how is doing that going to make the dev process any faster? How is it going to do anything but annoy the !@#$ out of the people who CAN wait patiently? It's a shame you're unhappy but that's not a reason to rally people against the devs who are (as the daily updates and nightly builds show) doing their friggin job.

    If anyone has a right to be annoyed, it's the people who invested serious money into the game, which is not the majority of the players on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
    Serenity likes this.
  8. Starbug

    Starbug Guest

    I am impatient for world peace, and further manned space exploration.

    What you are maybe more annoyed about is not players impatience, but the incessant dragging up of old tweets, quotes and things said in the past that are being used today to cast the developers in a negative light. Those people are not being impatient; they are rabble rousers, and ineffective ones at that. My tactics of rabble-rousing are far more effective. ;)

    No need to say bad things about developers personally, they are just meatbags like the rest of us :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2014
    Serenity likes this.
  9. nofo

    nofo Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Nothing we do here will make the devs progress any faster. How is me voicing my opinion annoying you? I haven't seen the nightly builds as they aren't for testing or playing so I have no interest in playing them - if they were doing their job they would have something to show for all this time.
     
  10. Litagano Motscoud

    Litagano Motscoud Master Astronaut

    Don't you think it's a bit strange to say that while purposely not looking at the progress they make in the nightly builds?
     
  11. nofo

    nofo Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Nope, why would I?

    Tell me - what is their purpose? "Look! We are doing something!" Is all I can think of. If they have actually made progress why not bug push it to stable so people can actually give feedback and find bugs their small team can't? Are they that scared of feedback or is it they haven't made enough progress to warrant an update?
     
  12. Akado

    Akado Oxygen Tank

    If nothing we do here has any meaningful effect, then why are you complaining and arguing with others? Does that help you feel better? Because it surely doesn't improve the "Let's get along and not fight" mood around here.

    Also, please do not take this as "You need to shut up for the greater good" or "If you criticize the company you aren't welcome." That is NOT what I mean to say. What I mean to say is that the way you are going about expressing your disappointment is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, and causing conflict. Your message is probably fine (I don't know exactly what it is and I'm not able to speak for you), but the way you're expressing it is still in Early Access.

    The entire point IS to say "Look! We HAVE done something!" They have made actual progress, but that progress is not polished and stable enough to push to stable so that people can give feedback on how it feels in the game. Simply because progress is made (concepts agreed upon and shown in game, in rough form) does not mean that they're ready to push to stable.

    There are significant expectations for "The Next Patch" due to the amount of time between the last patch and the next one. CF seems to believe that "The Next Patch" needs to be incredibly smooth, stable, and full of game-changing content, or else the community will be very disappointed. I agree with them. If this assumption is correct, then it explains why they haven't simply pushed a few pieces of completed progress to the Stable build.
     
    Serenity likes this.
  13. Litagano Motscoud

    Litagano Motscoud Master Astronaut

    They could be pushing all these updates to the stable branch, but for one thing, some of the community will bitch about how the updates are incomplete. You might not care, and that's great, but a large part of the community will, and I don't think they want to deal with that. Plus, Akado makes a good point. The next stable update needs to be big and worthwhile, or else everyone will get all up in arms.
     
    Serenity likes this.
  14. Skarn

    Skarn Existential Complex

    Now I'm confused. That pastebin was from february 2012. Preorders started in april 2013. Assuming you did misinterpret this as them saying nearly everything in the game was almost finished and you purchased the day preorders opened, it appears to me that you had at least 14 months to figure out that was not the case before you gave them a red cent, correct?
    Hmm... not really but then my purchase isn't "complete" until they stop updating entirely. EA isn't the final stage of Starbound's development regardless. At the rate things are going I wouldn't be surprised if they do leave EA sooner rather than later.
    If they released current stable as a finished product I'd give it a 7/10. Good game, and while a tad buggy, short on endgame content and lacking polish, it's quite fun if you get into it. I might bump it up to an 8 if I get into mods which I haven't yet, but yeah. That's the point. It's already a good game IMHO. But compared to what they have planned? I believe when Tiy used the term 'tech demo' it was actually a metaphor, but it was a pretty apt one. There is just so much content, so many features that they've only touched on so far.
     
  15. That *IS* the purpose of Nightly Builds.

    If you are someone who needs to see new stuff, and needs to play new content (broken or not) -- you can opt into Nightly Builds. But Nightly Builds are actually "Dev Builds". It's what the devs are working with. CF isn't scared of feedback and it isn't that there isn't enough progress to warrant an update; it's that the content simply isn't ready. Lots of moving parts. There's also a lot of mechanical features done that aren't linked to their function. Like techs+armors and some crafting stations not linked to their craftables.

    Oh, and @nofo -- a heads up; while you don't seem to be breaking any rules, you are coming across as being condescending in some of your language choice. I would be better about what you post as you make up 75% of the reported posts in this thread -- and you have 4x as many reports as anyone else's posts in this thread COMBINED.

    But as for this thread. We've had some internal discussion about it -- and I know I'll catch some flak for this; but no -- it won't stay open. Along with the posts against nofo, it seems like this thread is being used as a means to take stabs at people using the report function. Like one huge moderation bait. I've sent out PM's as warnings to the offenders. But c'mon guys.

    Great discussion stems from bridging the gap between opinions in a respectful way. :coffee:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page