Modding Discussion Elitism in Starbound, How it affects Modding, You and the Future of the Game Itself.

Discussion in 'Starbound Modding' started by Lateo, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. Derpiebird

    Derpiebird Phantasmal Quasar

    lol gg Lateo sure cud go for sum top kek now
     
  2. Katzeus

    Katzeus Chucklefisherman Chucklefish

    The modding community has done a really good job with documentation on the wiki, but there's still a lot to do. I think some people may not understand that the modding stuff is all player written (mostly by folks in ##starbound-modding) and publicly editable by anyone. I'm not sure if the 'in depth' resources you're taking about are out there (yet!), but if anyone who wants to jump on board to write some the wiki stuff has a great start which can be built on.

    EDIT: Another source which I haven't seen mentioned is the documentation Omni setup at http://doc.playstarbound.com. I'm not much of a modder, but it seems like a great resource too!!
     
    Lateo likes this.
  3. Archer

    Archer Spaceman Spiff

    Love this thread, because it is so true (and well written).

    To be frank, I belonged in that omega group for quite a while, long ago... Just because it was so hilarious and because I wanted to prove my points regarding modding and server issues. I still have most of the tools/assets, including some modified and evil techs. I even made a thread about how modding was really going over-the-top and became a super-easy way to grief servers and players after lua items were announced (worse than techs because they are more accessible!), but without any concrete examples it obviously never was taken seriously and I was bashed for bringing it up instead, mostly countered with arguments like "you don't know how game development works"... It's funny how they're suddenly optimizing the game now in the current stage then but okay.

    Releasing such an example to people is not an issue regarding elitism though for me, it's rather a big issue for the game and its servers and it would pretty much force the devs to take action (I made that mistake earlier, it had bad results). I'd tell em everything I know privately, but the game is not really ready yet in my opinion since multiplayer performance is still horrible even without griefers lurking around and the base game still isn't very finished or satisfying to play. Because a lot of focus of current development is on making the game more enjoyable, whatever I will say now will get ignored or forgotten by the time they finally get to it, which makes it pointless to attempt anything now. I will keep it in mind for later though because it is still quite important.

    I'm being honest here because it doesn't matter all that much anymore, I'm pretty much "retired" for a long time by now regarding evil modding (and all assets are tightly locked away) and I don't have plans to go back. Right now I'm just following the developments of the game, lurking pretty much like I did before its beta release, might continue working on some of my more peaceful mods with the next stable release.

    I'm all in for server-side characters by the way, because that's one of the few things/solutions that's going to make servers viable for lengthy gameplay.
     
    Lateo likes this.
  4. Lateo

    Lateo Big Damn Hero

    You guys have do a pretty great job with the wiki but the reason that "in-depth" resources don't exist right now is because some of that information would seriously harm the game and force the devs into action (I'm sure they would rather fix this issue with less drama and rush). Personally I play on writing quite a few modding guides covering what I am referring to once changes are made to the game to prevent its use online.

    I had no idea about that source but it seems to cover a lot of stuffed already mentioned in the wiki but not given detail to. It seems to be a great tool though and nicely sorts a lot of information, thanks for sharing it!

    Since you stopped being a griefer and decided not to share that code it's not about elitism for you. You're not sharing what you've made because, as you said, it's a big issue and would force dev action. This is the same reason I made this thread instead of attempting to "force" action.

    Server side characters are a good step but it's rendered null as someone could easily write a tech to spawn fully customized items using JSON.

    Thanks for posting, it's nice to see someone who understands the ramifications of that info being released, hopefully the game will change in the future so all modding information can be released without harming servers.
     
    Katzeus likes this.
  5. crowby

    crowby Title Not Found

    I am a modder, knowing most things like re-sizing players, converting images to drawables, and the beginnings of modded tech. Now, I am sort of a Nice "Omega". I shared my information. Now, put your pistols and plasma snipers away from my face.

    Sure, I teach greifers... But the creative minds outweigh the griefers. What good is a modding community if there is naught a single guide, or ANYthing for the matter? It's a cult personality, and guess what? This is like gun control. people think removing modding capabilities will get rid of every griefer. It will just restrict creative minds, and would be a very bad move on CF's part. Yes, there's a 30 drawables limit being added. I think it should be 200 or 300, since noone can make porn out of that. 30 is ridiculous.

    Now, I know. griefers. bad! porn.
    Doesn't mean you have to restrict the creativity of others. It's literally being asked to make something amazing, but being handed half a crayon.

    Anyways, my opinion.

    thanks.
     
  6. Lateo

    Lateo Big Damn Hero

    The most important aspect of fixing the exploiting of modding in starbound is retaining all the original possibilities of modding without negatively impacting other people. In that area you hit the nail right on the head.
     
    Bloobit likes this.
  7. Healthire

    Healthire Can't Most Program the Least

    But drawables were never meant to be used that way. The fact that they even work in multiplayer is just a side effect of how generated weapons work. You can be as creative as you want if you just use images for the guns instead of composing images out of 1px drawables. You can make the biggest porn penis gun you can imagine and wave it in the face of everybody. It's just only gonna work when other people have the same assets. So yeah, you can be just as creative as you want.
     
    Boshed likes this.
  8. Tsunder

    Tsunder Phantasmal Quasar

    Is it just me or is all the "elitism modding" here the mods/exploits on vanilla multiplayer? o.o

    there's no tekkit or bukkit drama (or whatever it was) right?
     
  9. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    I would think so. Especially with the drawables thing.
     
  10. Archer

    Archer Spaceman Spiff

    It mostly is, and public multiplayer has largely become a shithole because of it.
     
  11. Pretty much, and while most of the serious modders here know how to do it, we try not to spread HOW to do it to prevent others from picking it up.
     
  12. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    I fully agree with severedskullz and Archer. With modding, people can become OP and make griefing tools that can cause a huge disaster.
     
  13. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Well, well, well. It's been a while since I've been around. Things haven't changed much, have they? Other than that I might've become a little more reluctant to share my secrets...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  14. Noah10099

    Noah10099 Aquatic Astronaut

    I use a couple mods myself but i don't use them as an elitist I just use them for vanity (like the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy towel) or to have stuff 100%for my ship that never leaves my ship like crew members or a custom ship mod. I would never use any of this to make myself OP to other players so I wouldn't call myself an elitist.

    *edit I just found out i cant mod my spaceship on a server... at least the ones I have been on
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
  15. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    I have a custom matter manipulator with an 8x8 radius and does 20 tile damage per tick. I use it to clear up hard to break blocks when building or quickly packing up a base.

    I have modded a set of armor to be as powerful as top tier armor as well has negating fall damage and having a persistent glow like the lamp on a stick. I just don't like dealing with those things.

    I also know how to cripple logins on current version servers. :rofl:

    I mod to make the game suit me, not to be better than others.
     
  16. Why did you necro a thread that was last responded last year? >.>
     
  17. lazarus78

    lazarus78 The Waste of Time

    Damnit, and I contributed... bleh...
     
  18. Peelz

    Peelz Giant Laser Beams

    To be fair, it's a compelling topic despite its age. Personally, I myself have never bothered to learn all the multiplayer tricks with drawables and such. I prefer to do my modding the conventional way.
     
  19. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Well, I've been waiting for some sort of update to this thread -- for a long time.
     
  20. SteamCloud

    SteamCloud Void-Bound Voyager

    I don't mind the seeing this. It explains why I have had to skulk around the internet and haul together all the required( and useful) information about modding Starbound. I have experience programming but never dealt with JSON or LUA. It is not helpful to search the internet and find post after post from unexperienced modders of Starbound where someone more experienced tells them what a moron they are for not reading the right stuff. First you have to find the right stuff, then you have to know what it does and then you have to know how Starbound implements it. Just because you understand JSON does not mean you know what the game will expect in a JSON file. Same goes for LUA; you need to know what you can provide a script file for. There is a lot of trial and error that takes a lot of TIME.

    Limits to your time is what can make modding Starbound frustrating. I like Starbound and the ability to apply my creativity to it but I have obligations that also take my time as well as the need to eat, sleep, talk face-to-face with others, help members of my family out. It took me a while just to get the resources never mind reading them. Then it also took time to play with modding and now I can make very basic mods with some confidence. It comes down to how much of a priority modding Starbound is compared to the rest of your life whether you continue working on this.

    The fact that a lot of people do not willing share could be due to how difficult it was for them to get information and help from some people. There seems to be a culture of "if you don't get this simple concept then you are not worthy." Perhaps people are just paying the negativity forward, especially in the nasty mods they create.
     

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