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Death Penalty in the Nightly Builds

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by DaJoe85, Jul 9, 2014.

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  1. Zuvaii

    Zuvaii Heliosphere

    I keep wanting people to see my preferred method back on the top of Page 2. Make it so the stuff like losing ore on death are optional settings at character creation (pixel loss always happens, amount determined by difficulty level) that flag the character and give them bigger payouts with the potential of losing that much more. Just make it so difficulty levels impact enemy AI and how they utilize their move-sets and nothing else. All the additional options during character creation would promote Risk vs Reward in a balanced manner (each setting would go into detail about the benefits and downsides). Even Permadeath would be an optional setting on it's own. Yes it's the ultimate Risk vs Reward, so why won't it automatically flag the others? I know some people would want Permadeath without the benefits the Ore-Loss-on-Death flag might bring (more ores in each cluster, ores appear one 'level' higher, IE Copper extremely close to the surface, Iron where copper would normally be, etc). It's all about giving the players more easy-to-understand options that will impact the game should they choose to use it. That way someone can play with Ore-loss-on-death while playing Normal and someone else can play on Hard without that setting and simply deal with smarter enemy AI.

    That's what I'm all about, giving the players more options through which they can enjoy the game however they want, not them being forced to play in an even more restrictive manner in a Sandbox game of all things.
     
    Hatsya Souji likes this.
  2. Lintton

    Lintton Guest

    I'm sorry, but I really don't see that working. It seems overly complex and more designed for a game that is solely singleplayer. And speaking from experience, "payouts" really do not matter in the long term.
     
  3. Zuvaii

    Zuvaii Heliosphere

    How would it be more for single-player only and not multi-player?
     
  4. krylo

    krylo Hard-To-Destroy Reptile

    Suggestion: Remove refinery, increase pixel drop from monsters to compensate for loss of refinery, and nerf and/or remove pixel compressor (rather they not remove it just because I like its sprite), and then remove ore dropping and go back to pixel dropping.

    The main issue with death not having repercussions, currently, is that pixels aren't actually your money. All the gold and diamond and platinum and whatnot you're carrying around is. Most people only refine enough into pixels to get whatever thing they need right at the moment, so that pile of 1000 diamond ore back at home is where their actual pixels are.

    However, pixel drops from monsters are too low to make a refinery-free future anything but a huge pain in the ass.
     
    Colton likes this.
  5. vduong942

    vduong942 Master Chief

    anyone know what was added in the new nightly update? did the outposts get fixed?
     
  6. Rainbow Dash

    Rainbow Dash Oxygen Tank

    im ok with this
    it sucks when stuff it forced on you X-x
     
  7. AltyBagU

    AltyBagU Space Hobo

    <3


    It's just a thought. If you're looking for a nice relaxing game I think you're barking up the wrong game. Relaxing games are like Sims or farmville this game is about survival, exploring, fighting, and going on dangerous planets that can get you killed in no time flat. Indeed a game should not be so hard that if you die you cannot make a comeback from it at all but it should not be so easy to where if you die it's not a big deal at all and infact it helps you progress faster. This is what the devs are trying to achieve and I simply agree with them trying to do so. So if you don't like to die and lose all you're ore then change you're play style from careless to careful because again this game is not a death free farmville.
     
  8. Rainbow Dash

    Rainbow Dash Oxygen Tank

    so after playing this gamemode for about 3 hours i can say that, it is alot fun trying to avoid dieing
    so im gonna change my mind and say it should stay

    then again combat is kinda hard tho for some reason i started on a lvl2 planet X-x
     
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  9. Lora Grim

    Lora Grim Guest

    I think death should be like this: You lose all your health and "die". But instead of losing anything or going back to the start or anything. Bunnies and rainbows fly out of you while disco balls come down from the sky and every mob around you start dancing and by the end, your health is restored, the world is beautiful, every monster is your best friend.... and then you drop dead and explode, killing all of your monster friends and all your buildings collapse and your ship plummets into the ground blowing up the whole planet, erasing your character from existence....

    ...

    It also uninstalls your game.
     
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  10. AltyBagU

    AltyBagU Space Hobo

    Might aswell take it a step further and have a virus infect you're computer blowing it up :rofl: Love that idea though made me rolflmao
     
    Untrustedlife likes this.
  11. Harlander

    Harlander Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    You think this, and other people have stated exactly the opposite opinion. Personally I think there's no reason it couldn't accommodate all desired levels of challenge with customisable difficulty levels. The groundwork for this has already been lain...
     
    Untrustedlife and LastDay like this.
  12. AltyBagU

    AltyBagU Space Hobo

    I simply stated that this is not a die free game and if some people want a game that you can never die and lose your stuff or anything then they should play a game thats exactly just that. Personally if I'm playing a game that's beyond too easy even a caveman can play it I will find it boring as hell. Thats whats wrong with alot of games they end up making it way too easy because little timmy could not "deal" with it and he complained about it. The point that im getting across is that we are all smart enough to use our brains and beat that boss or get through obstacle and the main reward is "damn I did it :D" and you feel good about yourself that you overcame it. Ofcourse if people want to play this like farmville thats there own prerogative im not here to tell people how to play.
     
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  13. Lintton

    Lintton Guest

    I agree, just because the game can be modded and built on creativity doesn't mean it should be easy from start to finish, in an bad attempt to please everyone.

    Case in point: Mage Knight Apocalypse. It was a PC RPG that had,among invincibility buffs on hit, invincibility when receiving damage, and hordes of monsters that hit like wet noodles, checkpoints every 10 feet. When you died, you got sent back to said checkpoint, with everything you had. Not my cup of tea, and I didn't suffer a second playthrough. (Even the five headed "apocalypse dragon" wasn't all that hard, it was one of probably two mobs that charmed.)

    There is in fact, a point to difficulty beyond that of the checkmark. That's why I suggested to tweak the features instead of remove them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
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  14. Xylia

    Xylia Tiy's Beard

    So, basically, you're applying the Slippery Slope Fallacy. In case you're not familiar with the SSF, that is basically when someone suggests something and then you go "oh, you want..." and proceed to talk about something far beyond what was suggested.

    Right now, Starbound does have a fairly stiff penalty for dying -- losing.. what is it, 25% of your pixels? Hurts later on when you have several thousand. The ONLY flaw is that the Refinery allows you to bypass this kinda-sorta by dumping ore into it to refine. I can understand why they'd pick on ore, but the problem is, ore doesn't respawn like enemies do, and we don't want players getting stuck on planets, or losing hours of work to one cheap RNG-related death.

    And besides... what's it to you if there's another game mode that you're not forced to play? You like ridiculously punishing deaths? *points to Hardcore* There you go. Have fun. Don't try to force your style of gaming on me when you've the option to do it your way already.

    This is obviously not a die-free game, and nobody expected it to be as such. There's a death penalty already and not everybody likes sitting at the ore grinders for hours grinding ore whenever they wanna spend pixels on something.

    So we should be avoiding an entire game because of one mechanic that can easily be turned on/off with an option or allow it to be modded?

    Good for you. You're one out of how many gamers who play Starbound, again? How many people are primarily builders and don't really care about combat at all?

    Yeah, there's also cheap deaths too. You're whacking away at some ore underground, and suddenly this enemy falls in from above you and kills you in 3 seconds and there was really nothing you coulda done about it. Are you going to say the player was "stupid" because this happened?

    Or let's say you beam down to a forest planet and the starting location is in a lava pit because it has a volcano on it. The player was too stupid to beam down to a forest planet that had a volcano biome on it, even though he had no way of knowing that ahead of time?

    Or better yet: Allow US to tweak difficulty features via a series of on-off checkboxes in the "challenge" menu. Do we want to drop ore on death? Do we wanna drop pixels on death? How much? 25%? 50%? 100%? Enemy strength 50/100/150%, pixel drops 50/100/150% etc.
     
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  15. Lintton

    Lintton Guest

    I would say the player should learn to play with some foresight and not dig straight down. It's not stupidity to be on the road of learning mechanics. A block to the left or right and he goes from a unclimbable deathtrap to a very safe incline. Or that if there's liquid at the surface, there's likely back ground and he should place blocks below him to both raise his spawn point and clear the lava away.

    Sometime those "game breaking" situations are in fact, totally fixable on normal mode. I would say that suggestions should be made anyway at the forum because permadeath characters don't have as much luxury.(and i think they are already looking into how to modify the spawnpoint, to keep people from spawning at the bottom of the map.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  16. Untrustedlife

    Untrustedlife Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Hardcore is different, some people want challenge but do not want to drop all there stuff. Like this fine fella.

    I gt a better idea, how about we add a "CASUAL EASY " mode for people like... YOU who dont want any punishment :)
    There problem solved.
    We dont want people getting the wrong idea by making the normal mode have no punishment for death and be boring/casual like an easy mode now do we. (boring in my opinion anyway,)

    Not saying that the last idea of yours isn't also a great option.. it just might confuse players.. which is the "ideal game mode" it would have to default to something and that would cause even more arguments.




    (Ignore this bottom half if you wish im just playing the name fallacies game) (seriously,I warned you)

    OHHHHH so we are naming fallacies are we?

    Not everyone.
    I play the game because it promises to be a cool sandbox rpg that pleases all playstyles where i can play as I want, im not playing it to just build, many people are not playing it just to build. Dont make the assumption that everyone aggrees with you. Is that not the Assumed Agreement Fallacy.


    This has nothing to do with the ore drop and is therefore a Red Herring Fallacy.

    ---
    I probably made a fallacy somewhere in there...........your turn :)

    Point Count:
    Untrustedlife: 2
    Xylia: 1
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
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  17. If you're grinding for hours to get ore and not stopping back once in a while to drop it off, you're doing it wrong. That's what it's saying. Every like 20 minutes of mining you make a conscious effort to go to the surface and drop off your haul.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
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  18. Untrustedlife

    Untrustedlife Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    *Gives you a cookie* scratch that
    *Gives you a lifetime supply of fresh baked cookies :) with rainbowdashes cutie mark on them)


    I hated the combat until i got used t it, was dying constantly, so i totally get it. I wish there was way to prevent players from spawning on lvl 2 (or even 3) planets, but it would break the point of the seed because the seed wouldn't work for the home planet for everyone else... Unless all players started in some sort of statcic place (liek the planet you escaped from, maybe) <-- always wanted that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  19. Everyone should probably just settle on down before "The Fuzz" catch wind and the thread gets locked. (I use that nickname with <3)
     
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  20. AltyBagU

    AltyBagU Space Hobo

    All in all I agree with the devs trying to make the game a little more punishing for dying. At first I was mad about it but started to think about the logic behind it and its a soild move on their part. As for anygame there should be a range of difficulty options but none of them should be if you die you revive no problem and no penalty but hey if the devs want to do that then who am I to stop them. I'm looking at the bigger picture and have high hopes that they will turn this great game to an awesome one with hundreds of hours worth of game play :)
     
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